Hotbar / Skills management - Page 3

clairmont · 11/19/08, 2:12 AM

Definitely suggest OPie � Home - for all non hotbar talents/skills/trinkets. That with some shift commands will practically clean up any interface.

Brachamul · 11/19/08, 3:59 AM

I use buttons 1-5, A and E essentially.

All of my physical strikes are tied to Rune Strike.

My spec is 44/0/X

1 and 2 are Plague Strike and Icy Touch, i need them close because I always use them one after the other.
3 is Heart Strike, and activates my orc Racial and Trinkets automatically.
Shift+1/2/3 are used for Cooldowns like Rune Tap, Mark of Blood and Vampiric Blood.
4 is Death Strike and Shift+4 is Obliterate.
5 is Death Coil
E is Death Grip, Shift+E is Anti-Magic Shield
A is Mind Freeze, Shift+A is Strangulate
Middle mouse button for Icebound Fortitude.

I'm using AG Unit Frames to show Runes, I purposefuly increased their size. However it seems that there are some rare bugs with Death Runes sometimes. I'll definately have a look at the addons cited here because I really need to display the diseases much more clearly.

When I start doing real PvP i'll also macro most of my abilities to work with /focus, with the Ctrl modifier.

erikdsn · 11/19/08, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Vain

Like many players, I don't keep my action bars visible; instead, I look at my runes and have my most important cooldowns displayed on a separate area of the screen. However, I have run into a problem; when I turn into a ghoul due to Shadow of Death, the ghoul's abilities replace bar #1, but since I don't have bar 1 visible, I can't see these abilities or their cooldowns.

I would like to add a condition to Bartender4 so that it shows bar #1 only when I am a ghoul. Bartender supports the standard WoW macro conditions, but I have been unable to find out what (if it even exists) the macro-testable condition is for a death knight currently being under "Shadow of death".

Change the bar you use to what bartender refers to as "bar 1" ...when you die, all you see is bar 1.

calisti · 11/19/08, 3:00 PM

Originally Posted by Asari

Does Rune Strike work if you macro it?

This macro works just fine with Rune Strike. Just replace blood strike with whatever ability you're using in conjunction with rune strike. Be careful with rune strike usage on the initial pull. You may find yourself without enough runic power to use other abilities.

#showtooltip Blood Strike
/script UIErrorsFrame:UnregisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")
/cast Rune Strike
/script UIErrorsFrame:RegisterEvent("UI_ERROR_MESSAGE")
/cast Blood Strike

Xzard · 11/19/08, 5:30 PM

I have found the mod IceHUD to be very effective for handling the runes, but it treats runic power like a warrior's rage bar. The mod is very similar to the old MetaHUD in appearrance.

Designing an effective Death Knight UI is an ongoing challenge. We have two resources and a plethora of timed abilties to manage in a dense rotation. My approach to attacking these challenges has been to use an N52, but I think things could still be better. My current idea is to use paging in conjuntion with Bartender4 and the NF2's LED lights to shuffle between Rune based abilties and those utilizing Runic Power. Managing the bar itself while also managing my Runes is the real trick, especially with the 10sec/8.5sec rule. I think the key to DK DPS will be the abiltiy to effectively juggle both of these resource systems. To this effect, I think the hud I mentioned above is functional, but I don't think it is as good as it could be. I would like to see both resources in close proximity. I have some ideas for accomplishing this, but I was wondering if the community has come across anything for effectively displaying this information?

Cambriel · 11/19/08, 6:34 PM

Originally Posted by Xzard

I have found the mod IceHUD to be very effective for handling the runes, but it treats runic power like a warrior's rage bar. The mod is very similar to the old MetaHUD in appearrance.

Your setup is very similar to mine so far, and I'm having some of the same challenges. I'm using an n52 with IceHUD and NeedToKnow to centralize all of my major abilities.

I've found that designing my UI a bit more holistically has helped. With my other characters, I could usually afford to take a second and glance at other areas of my screen to check on situational data like buffs, group status, etc. When trying to juggle six rune cooldowns and 3 diseases, plus mitigation buttons, I no longer have that luxury.

I realize that this isn't the UI thread, but I do feel like it's important to factor all elements into your skills management. I've tried to ask myself these questions:

1. Am I alive, and are my targets alive?
2. Do I have aggro?
3. Are my diseases up?
4. Is my runic power at a level that I should dump part of it?
5. Are my runes on cooldown?
6. Is my next target lined up?
7. Is my group alive?
8. Are my skills paged appropriately?

Those questions form a priority list for the information I really, really need. The higher the item on that priority list, the closer to the center of my screen that item gets placed. A HUD mod puts most of that (health, target, RP, runes) right in the center of the screen, which is great. However, it doesn't solve all my problems, since it doesn't provide me feedback on my diseases or current threat.

NeedToKnow fills in my disease timers extremely well, it's small, they're always in the exact same place, and I can fit them right above my runes. They seamlessly integrate into my HUD. Threat is a trickier issue, since most mods don't do a very good job of small threat bars, but while leveling it hasn't been a priority and I haven't really solved this challenge just yet.

Honestly, the actual paging and placement of my skills is almost trivial compared to the other information. It's like looking at the steering wheel instead of at the instrument cluster in a car. Yeah it needs to be there, but it's hardly going to tell you how fast you're going.

My biggest complaint is that runes are still difficult to read. In a perfect world, a ShockAndAwe-like mod would allow us to see overlapping cooldowns for our runes and GCDs, but MagicRunes isn't there yet so we're stuck with clockface cooldowns or bars. They work, but it quickly overwhelms the additional timer bars required for tracking diseases. Juggling 9 (10 with unholy blight) timers is just too much, you're playing the UI at that point. What we really need is an effective way to track diseases in a visually unique way from runes without losing any of the information from either. I don't think anything does that just yet.

Enthralled · 11/19/08, 7:34 PM

Originally Posted by Cambriel

IceHUD + NeedToKnow does just that. Just make a 2 (3 for unholy) bar needtoknow group right above your runes and you're golden.

Could you list the exact process you went through in order to get NeedToKnow to track your debuffs? I have tried both the name of the debuff and the name of the original ability that generated the debuff and neither are working for me.

Laci · 11/19/08, 11:06 PM

The IceHUD idea is a good one, although I use PowerAuras and RuneMover.

One of the concepts that plagues many UI designs is the idea that more is better. Its not. Especially as a DK, you've got more than enough to worry about as it is; the UI should be showing only those things that are absolutely necessary to know right now. The rest of the fluff should be hidden in combat, relegated to a mouse-over element or toggled as needed. Once you get a feel for the rotation that you're using, you really only need a tidbit of information to know what to do next. The trick is to condense that tidbit into its very easiest-to-track form.

Here is a common example: gradient displays. Do you really need to know that you have 58 runic power? IMO, you don't. Can I DC now and have enough left over to mind freeze or Horn of Winter? Must I DC now to avoid losing a proc or going over limit? That is all that you care about.

Here is a another: the common fixation on timers. You have a 12-second DoT. Do you really, honestly, need to know that there are 9 seconds left? Or 8, or 7 seconds left? IMO, you only really care when its about to run out, and even then only if you will have the means to refresh it. The UI shouldn't distract you with these details, because they don't matter.

Anyway, I use PowerAuras is set to display both runic power and diseases. For RP, it displays when I'm over 20% runic power, at/over 80% RP, and when death trance procs. All three of these use the same graphic and position, but with a slightly darker color for 80% and the proc; thus, it just gets progressively darker as RP builds up. For HoW and both diseases, its set to display only when these effects are not active.

I also have RuneMover set to make the rune bar a bit bigger and to place it in-line with the bottom of my toon's feet. Frankly, this sucks ass. However, its the best of a bad sitation; none of the rune displays available right now are really that usable. (That said, I do salute the author for taking the time get something out that is usable--its more than I've done).

However, I imagine that will get worked out over the next couple of months as UI monkeys get more ideas on how to best display rune cooldowns.

Finally, I also have all abilities in each rotation set to keybinds, but I won't bore you with those details, since that has been beat to death already.

Killashandra · 11/20/08, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Enthralled

Could you list the exact process you went through in order to get NeedToKnow to track your debuffs? I have tried both the name of the debuff and the name of the original ability that generated the debuff and neither are working for me.

NeedToKnow works fine for me for tracking diseases. The one thing to make sure is that you have the name of the disease EXACTLY right. I think capitalization counts too. If you spell wrong, you'll get nothing. Other than that, when you are setting up the bar, make sure you have debuff checked, and target (instead of self). After that, it's just typing the name correctly.

hope that was helpful.

Feorthas · 11/20/08, 11:39 AM

Regarding Horn of Frost and disease timers, I came up with a good solution last night:

Using NeedToKnow, I put a buff bar and two debuff bars at the top of my UI reaching from the left side of my monitor over to my minimap. While they aren't as thin as I'd like, it's pretty obvious now when I'm missing something important as each bar has a unique color and takes up enough room to be visible--or, more importantly, noticable when it isn't there--without taking up too much space in the all-too-critical center-of-the-screen area.

Regarding runes, I've become a fan of having a vertical rune layout, putting them opposite of where the pet bars are/would be in IceHud. Since they fit nicely inside the right HUD arcs, it *feels* like they're taking up less room but they're actually quite large and very visible.

Solithaira · 11/20/08, 2:17 PM

Feorthas I think I'm running a setup very similar to yours.

I'm using Magic Runes, except I set the bar width/length to zero and inserted a seconds timer within the graphic. I also set the alignment to be vertical, so I ended up with 6 icons that count down the refresh timer. I placed this vertical set of icons inside the HuD bar that indicates runic power. I feel like this combination provides the best and easiest visual representation of both rune cooldowns and runic power.

Cambriel · 11/20/08, 4:12 PM

Tanked a bit more last night, and I'm starting to notice a serious flaw in my reactions that's probably costing me a lot. My opening rotation is fine, but as soon as runes start refreshing I keep wanting to spend them right away on whatever buttons are lit. What usually ends up happening is that I throw a badly timed Plague Strike or Icy Touch, and don't realize it until my disease timers go out of synch, forcing me to spend another rune to keep them even. More importantly, I just blew my runes that should have gone towards a scourge strike, and end up waiting for death runes before I get one off.

It's becoming a serious bad habit, and much of the problem can probably just be chalked up to inexperience with the mechanics, but I also wonder if there isn't something I can do with my hotkeys or UI to make it less likely to occur. I'm thinking of turning off the rune flash that occurs in MagicRunes when the rune becomes ready in the hopes that it doesn't trigger the "hit a button!" response as severely in my head. I really wish there were still a few limited scripting commands available. I'd much prefer to just hide my plague strike and icy touch buttons entirely if my target has >3 seconds left of either disease.

Kerulak · 11/20/08, 9:36 PM

Originally Posted by Enthralled

Could you list the exact process you went through in order to get NeedToKnow to track your debuffs? I have tried both the name of the debuff and the name of the original ability that generated the debuff and neither are working for me.

Don't forget to leave configuration mode once you've completed setting up the diseases: Simply type /needtoknow at the console. You'll know you're out of config mode because the bars you were just working with all disappear. You'll find they show up again once you start landing diseases.

Leaving configuration mode got me the first time around as well.

Amera · 11/21/08, 6:42 AM

It's becoming a serious bad habit, and much of the problem can probably just be chalked up to inexperience with the mechanics, but I also wonder if there isn't something I can do with my hotkeys or UI to make it less likely to occur. I'm thinking of turning off the rune flash that occurs in MagicRunes when the rune becomes ready in the hopes that it doesn't trigger the "hit a button!" response as severely in my head. I really wish there were still a few limited scripting commands available. I'd much prefer to just hide my plague strike and icy touch buttons entirely if my target has >3 seconds left of either disease.

I imagine a lot of people are having this issue, especially those of us who didn't massively poopsock DKs in beta (or even touch them!). Most of that should go away with practice and experience. I'm thinking PvP will also be a great teacher for resource management and control rather than hte button splurge you are describing.

As for abilities, the rune strike macro seems really useful, especially for leveling/solo. Right now I'm working with shift modifiers for things like death strike/scourge strike, and maybe as frost for death coil/frost strike. My reactions with them at the moment are pretty atrocious, though.

Cambriel · 11/21/08, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Amera

I imagine a lot of people are having this issue, especially those of us who didn't massively poopsock DKs in beta (or even touch them!). Most of that should go away with practice and experience. I'm thinking PvP will also be a great teacher for resource management and control rather than hte button splurge you are describing.

As for abilities, the rune strike macro seems really useful, especially for leveling/solo. Right now I'm working with shift modifiers for things like death strike/scourge strike, and maybe as frost for death coil/frost strike. My reactions with them at the moment are pretty atrocious, though.

You know I never thought of using shift-keys for death strike/scourge strike, that seems like such a no brainer. I really only use death strike on AoE pulls or elites, and all of the other abilities I use for that (pestilence, blood boil, gargoyle, etc) are all on the shift page anyway. How blind of me.

I find myself using Death and Decay more and more of late, even soloing, so that would open up a main page button slot to move that to. Excellent suggestion, thanks!

Nastrodamus · 11/21/08, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Cambriel

IceHUD + NeedToKnow does just that. Just make a 2 (3 for unholy) bar needtoknow group right above your runes and you're golden. I also added a fourth, larger bar for when unholy blight is active, and I would do the same for Death and Decay if it would let me, but since it's not a buff there's no way to access it. I've never used a HUD before, but it's been a worthy experiment with my DK.

If I am not mistaken.....if by some change you were a mage and had quartz (you should have had it!!!) then Quartz has the 2 Bars/3 Bars(Unholy) that you can watch your disease cooldowns. You can also set it up to make the bars bigger and more pronounced and move them to a good location to keep an eye on. X-Perl has an option to add your runes near your character frame also just FYI.

Nastrodamus · 11/21/08, 3:15 PM

Originally Posted by Vain

Like many players, I don't keep my action bars visible; instead, I look at my runes and have my most important cooldowns displayed on a separate area of the screen. However, I have run into a problem; when I turn into a ghoul due to Shadow of Death, the ghoul's abilities replace bar #1, but since I don't have bar 1 visible, I can't see these abilities or their cooldowns.

I would like to add a condition to Bartender4 so that it shows bar #1 only when I am a ghoul. Bartender supports the standard WoW macro conditions, but I have been unable to find out what (if it even exists) the macro-testable condition is for a death knight currently being under "Shadow of death".

Check bartender and the bar you are using options....IF I am not mistaken either you can A) change THAT bar you most use to the "Mind Control/Death to Ghoul/Teron Gorefiend Ghost" Bar by an option or b) just switch everything to the natural possession bar which is bar 1. I swear I remember the option to be able to change any of the 1-10 bars to that possession bar. BAM - i found it under the bar go to the state configuration tab....then you can enable THAT bar to be your possession bar. I dont know if it automatically disables the other bar but I would go in and make sure it does. Hope that helps some.

Nastrodamus · 11/21/08, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by Cambriel

Tanked a bit more last night, and I'm starting to notice a serious flaw in my reactions that's probably costing me a lot. My opening rotation is fine, but as soon as runes start refreshing I keep wanting to spend them right away on whatever buttons are lit. What usually ends up happening is that I throw a badly timed Plague Strike or Icy Touch, and don't realize it until my disease timers go out of synch, forcing me to spend another rune to keep them even. More importantly, I just blew my runes that should have gone towards a scourge strike, and end up waiting for death runes before I get one off.

It's becoming a serious bad habit, and much of the problem can probably just be chalked up to inexperience with the mechanics, but I also wonder if there isn't something I can do with my hotkeys or UI to make it less likely to occur. I'm thinking of turning off the rune flash that occurs in MagicRunes when the rune becomes ready in the hopes that it doesn't trigger the "hit a button!" response as severely in my head. I really wish there were still a few limited scripting commands available. I'd much prefer to just hide my plague strike and icy touch buttons entirely if my target has >3 seconds left of either disease.

I would suggest to start practicing on a Dummy.....yeah I know it's not attacking back and such but practicing on a dummy helps you get into a flow and trains you out of those bad habits. Force yourself into good habits by practice then in crunch time...you will be like Michael Phelps....winning all the gold and getting all the womenz!

aarstar · 11/21/08, 5:28 PM

For a frame-of-reference, I run with an Unholy tanking build.

I use WASD for movement.

~-5 are primary skills: Plague Strike, Icy Touch, Blood Strike, Death Strike (with a shift modifier for Scourge Strike), Rune Strike (with a shift modifier for Death Coil), and Unholy Blight.

For the rest of my abilities I bind similar abilities to the same key and use modifiers.

Taunting -- Q is for Death Grip with a shift modifier for Dark Command.

Interrupts/ Silences -- E is for Mind Freeze with a shift modifier for Arcane Torrent, and an alt modifier for Strangulate.

General/Melee Mitigation -- R is for Bone Shield with a shift modifier for Icebound Fortitude and an alt modifier for Lichborne.

AoE -- T is for Pestilence with a shift modifier for blood boil and an alt modifier for Death and Decay.

Spell Mitigation -- Y is for Anti-Magic Shell with a shift modifier for Anti-Magic Zone.

I'd like to bind some more abilities but haven't gotten around to it at the moment -- Blood Tap and Empowered Rune Weapon seem to go together. I currently click Horn of Winter, never use Obliterate, and have Chains of Ice randomly bound to alt+1.

Bruners · 11/22/08, 12:18 PM

this is my setup so far, WASD for movement

The top bar is always hidden and got Horn of Winter (SR), Path of Frost(ST), Death and Decay(G), Presences with item sets(F2-4), mounts
S3 is Strangulate and Mind Freeze
Middle bar from right is trinket 2 +racial, trinket 1+racial (bound to |), Buffet with food/pot/stone/bandage

By the way, if you find yourself clicking or want to use Caps Lock but without the CAPS feature you can run this reg file and change it's position with Scroll Lock. Tested on Windows XP and Vista 64, but should work on lesser versions as well.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Keyboard Layout]
"Scancode Map"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,3a,00,46,00,46,00,3a,00,00,00,00,00

To revert to default setting change this and rerun or delete the key

"Scancode Map"=hex:00,00,00,00,00,00,00,00,03,00,00,00,46,00,3a,00,3a,00,46,00,00,00,00,00

46,00 is Scroll Lock
3a,00 is Caps Lock

Draegan · 11/24/08, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Asari

The only problem with macroing Dune Strike to every button is that there are times when you don't want to use it because you need the power for something else. Like getting off a UB or popping a tank skill such as icebound fort.

Shift and a scroll wheel with Bartender will let me switch between hotbars. I switch between a standard set, and a macroed set with Rune Strike with each ability.

Anyway my set up is as follows:

WASD for movement.
1,2,3,4: PS, IT, BS, SS
R: Death Grip
F: D&D
`: DC
Alt-` : Death Strike
Alt-1 : UB

F1 - Pestilence
F2 - Blood Boil
F3 - Horn of Winter
Middle MB - Bone Armor
Alt-MMB - Icebound Fortitude

I still havn't put in Chains of Ice, Mind Freeze and Strangulate. I also havn't really had to use Dark Command yet, but it's most likely going to be "C".

okkita · 11/25/08, 6:29 AM

Once again, for the 1000th time in these forums:

We are NOT interested on where you put your death coil key, or any other specific keybinding. If you have anything to add to the conversation regarding the style or way you set up your bindings, go for it. Maybe you do something really innovative with your macro setup, or have some insight about how to couple abilities... but spare us the time to read through your personalized keybindings when WE DON'T CARE AT ALL!

Posting keybindings WILL get this thread locked. Please, don't.

level12wizard · 11/25/08, 6:55 AM

I've found registry editing keys to be useful. Currently I use the caps lock as an extra button and the left windows key as an extra modifier, as I find shift awkward, and alt modifiers didn't give me quite enough when I needed pet control as Unholy.

There's a whole article about it here to do whatever you want with it, there are also a few GUIs floating about the net that do the same thing in an easier to understand fashion.

Regardless of your setup, I think adding the Caps Lock key as a bind could prove helpful in getting you a quick extra key or two without spending any money on a fancy mouse/keyboard. It's large, and near the rest of your keys in a typical WASD configuration. If you really need your Cruise Control for Cool, you can rebind it to a key you never use (something like Right Windows Key).

I would also highly advise against using a Rune Strike macro, as it can seriously mess you up. Just one example of learning this the hard way is Herald Volazj in Heroic Ahn'kahet.

I found it almost impossible to burst down the Druid healer we had without a well timed Mind Freeze on Nourish while he was at less than max health, followed by a Strangulate. With a lot of incoming melee from multiple attackers and them dual-wielding, and high dodge/parry with Blade Barrier up, Rune Strike went off constantly. But without enough RP to Mind Freeze and Frost Strike to seal the deal, you can end up spending a lot more time in Insanity, even enough to prove fatal.

◊ Eej · 11/25/08, 8:27 AM

Originally Posted by Laci

Here is a common example: gradient displays. Do you really need to know that you have 58 runic power? IMO, you don't. Can I DC now and have enough left over to mind freeze or Horn of Winter? Must I DC now to avoid losing a proc or going over limit? That is all that you care about.

Playing with only just a number indicating runic power seems completely off to me. I tried it with the Magic Rune timer option turned on and I never bothered looking at it. I just look at the size of my runic power bar on my unitframe and go by that.

Here is a another: the common fixation on timers. You have a 12-second DoT. Do you really, honestly, need to know that there are 9 seconds left? Or 8, or 7 seconds left? IMO, you only really care when its about to run out, and even then only if you will have the means to refresh it. The UI shouldn't distract you with these details, because they don't matter.

If there are 9 seconds left on your diseases, that means you can squeeze in an entire set of runes and probably some runic abilities before you have to refresh. It's always important to know when exactly your diseases are about to expire so you can plan beforehand.

Venkelos · 11/25/08, 9:13 PM

I use a DeathAdder mouse and n52 gamepad. The mouse has two very comfortable thumb buttons which I have mapped to shift and alt which combined with the 14 buttons on the n52 + orange panic button give me 45 hot keys which I can access without moving my hands.

Even if you don't think you need that many hotkeys, the n52 is a life saver. The biggest reason probably being that you can relegate the movement controls to your thumb with the dpad and that frees up 3 fingers for hotkey access. Movement with the dpad isn't as precise as WASD so if you go into it trying to play WoW like a fps it isn't going to work out, but the two genres have completely different interface styles which is why WASD never made sense in an mmo to me. In a fps you are just activating your current weapon while in an mmo you are choosing between many weapons constantly.

I play on a macbook pro and the DeathAdder has very poor official drivers, but a 3rd party shareware driver (you have to pay 20 dollars for registered version) works well.

Also a really good little rune tracking addon is Simple Rune. It is deceptive because it is just 6 dots, but they fill up as the runes recharge and can be set with any color/opacity you like, and really anything else would just be unnecessary information to process each time you wanted to know what runes you had available.