Any unholy tanks know of some kind of recount mod that records more hits than 10 or so prior to death, so i can see why i died, and not why i died as a ghoul ? Alternatively a way to spec out of the ghoul and not loose 2% stam ?

As mentioned a couple times in the last page, Spell Deflection is bugged and overwrites any other anti-magic effect you have active.

A few pages back you would have noticed that a lot of people explained that AMS is up and you have spell deflection that spell deflection will take priority over AMS.

Currently bugged.. don't know if it will be fixed or not.

I read on another forum (tankspot I think) that the new parry 2her will be best in slot for 2 hand tanks. Has anyone taken the time to weigh the various tanking options for weapons against these? Dunno if I wanna blow all the money on these yet, and I currently have Black Ice.

I have seen it mentioned quite a few times now and it's spreading quickly to other forums too: Several people claim that subversion is bugged causing our threat in -all- presences to be lower when specced.

I haven't been able to find any evidence of this however, but still I think it is way too important an issue if it is bugged to just dismiss researching this further.

Has anyone yet got any data on this other than pure speculation?

Umm... no. Given the fact of life which is Diminishing Returns, Black Ice will give you close to the same avoidance (maybe even more, depending on your Parry Rating and Dodge Rating) through Agi->Dodge than the parry two-hander. The +DEF two-hander will be best-in-slot avoidance (and STA), but you'll be giving up significant threat production. Currently, I too am using [Black Ice], and I will still be using it for any threat-sensitive fights, yet also craft a Titansteel Defender for fights that I anticipate having a comfortable threat lead.

I may also decide to use the Defender and re-gem for more +hit, considering the massive gain in STA and Def Rating that the Defender gives.

I seem to be having a little problem with threat in 25 man raids that do not have a protection paladin around to buff BoSanc. Last patchwerk kill as MT I was barely able to keep up 4500 TPS, while other tanks in the raid are able to do 5-6k+, sometimes even 7k.

I am frost spec'd atm, 10/51/10 with morbidity instead of subversion. My rotation is IT,PS,BS,BS,OB//OB,OB,OB. My main problem is that without BoSanc all my RP is spent on runestrikes and when my runes are off CD I am generally sitting there waiting for a few seconds doing nothing.

Is this a gear problem, in that I only have 125 hit rating and 7 expertise (including the 5 from tundra stalker), a problem in DK's needing BoSanc to TPS high or is there something do to with my spec, because I'm running out of ideas and can't really see expertise and hit making up 1-2k TPS.

From memory they are buffing the threat generated by frost presence to help with this issue if i remember correctly the patch notes.
(not sure since i can't find where i read that )

To answer your questions: yes, yes, and not really. I'm suspect of any DK tank that chooses [Betrayer of Humanity], just because of how important Hit and Expertise are to a DK's threat generation. We are a rotation-based class, which means that missing really, really hurts. During your first-phase rotation, GCDs are at a premium, and depending on your lag, "catching up" might be impossible. While the top-end of BoH is great, if you can't connect with it, what's the point? As any good DPSer will say, nothing is more important than being hit-capped... and since expertise does double-duty for a tank until the dodge softcap (6.5%)... that's vital as well. As a tank, we don't have the luxury of being able to stack +hit, so we should probably be looking for weapons with either +hit or +exp. I have 215 +hit and 21 expertise right now, and while I still have occasional threat issues (like inadvertently tanking Heigan in Unholy Presence :P) I had MAJOR threat issues when I was running with closer to 100 hit rating.

Second point. BoSanc is way overpowered. I've never had it in raids, and it (IMHO) is the major explanation as to why some DKs claim they have no threat issues and some claim they have big threat issues. BoSanc makes Rune Strike free, so you can do it every single time you avoid an attack. The only way I'm thinking of getting around this is stacking RP-generation... come 3.0.8, grabbing Glyph of Icy Touch, Chill of the Grave and Butchery might go a long way to ensuring more Rune Strikes, and thus, ensuring more threat. I assume you have Rune Strike macroed to your other keys?

Your spec looks fine, but remember that right now, DKs are the tanks that currently produce the lowest single-target threat... it took me a lot of practice and careful gearing to produce comparable threat to my warrior friend, but while I'm tightening my rotation, a warrior can simply faceroll his way to good TPS.

edit: To answer the other poster's question: no, they are not buffing DK Frost Presence threat modifier in 3.0.8. They are slightly buffing Rune Strike threat (used to be 2x damage, now is 1.5x damage with 1.5x threat for 2.25x threat). When this happens, maybe that Betrayer of Humanity, along with Killing Machine and the Rune Strike glyph, might produce some really good threat, even without the +hit. Try it on the PTR if you wish, but otherwise, that's just speculation.

@Ashareth, there is no mention of that anywhere in the Patchnotes I'm afraid. Neither could I find this in the wowwiki list of undocumented changes.

@Flyx, your talent spec is not optimal for threat generation. For example: Why do you spec Endless Winter or even Hungering Cold when you can spec things that will give you additional threat? I know the alternative Talents (IE Killing Machine) aren't exactly awesome but still better than those pseudo pvp talents, no?


And if you are about single target TPS then switch those points from morbidity to subversion, assuming that we find it is not bugged. (See my post earlier in this thread regarding that.)

So all in all, if you find you do not deal enough TPS, try something like this: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft


Regards

Why would you take Subversion over Two-handed Weapon Specialization? 2 points in Subversion is 6% crit for Obliterate and Blood Strike. 2 points in Two-handed Weapon Specialization is 4% damage for Auto Attacks, Rune Strikes, Obliterates, Blood Strikes, Plague Strikes and even Frost Strikes.