I haven't done the Math, I just assumed Subversion would amount to more Threat. If that is not the case then you are absolutely correct that the points should be swapped.

Regards

Edit: If we put out 2 Points from Subversion to Weapon Specialization, I would put the remaining Point from Subversion to Dark Convinction, incase Subversion is really bugged. (Which remains yet to be proven)

For an easier overview: This would be the modified Build Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Desecration is nearly worthless in PvE. In the absolute best-case scenario, it's a 3.67% damage increase and a snare that doesn't work on anything that matters. In the likely-case scenario, you'll be barely Plague Striking at all (counting on glyphed Scourge Strike spam to produce threat and refresh diseases most of the time), in which case it's a total waste of 5 points. Take those 5 points out, and put them into Bladed Armor. Also, Outbreak is pretty useless as well, and those 3 points would be better put into Imp. Icy Touch.

Other than that, it looks fine... although EJ isn't really the place for a "here's my spec" discussion, but I'm beginning to accept that the readership of these forums has gone downhill since WotLK was released. Not that talking about specs and the like is a problem, but people keep posting the same specs, with no real substantiative commentary about specific changes they've made, whether through testing or running numbers.

You do bring up an interesting point, and it is a point that I think deserves more emphasis in this thread. There really ought to be more discussion comparing subversion, 2-handed weapon spec, and dark conviction as a damage & threat per talent point basis.

Within a frost spec, I also assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that subversion was superior to 2-handed weapon spec. If subversion really isn't all it's cracked up to be in a frost tanking build, then I think your modified build linked above may very well end up becoming the "frost-tank-cookie-cutter" build.

I rolled my DK with an eye towards tanking if the guild ever needed it, which at the time there was no way I was ever going to tank in a raid.

Well things changed and the planning I put into it as I got closer to 80 paid off with being crit proof without having to go to a dual wield set.

my armory

In the end I sit around 23k health, 542 def and 37% avoidance (split very evenly between dodge and parry). What it left me with was with 4 gem sockets to work with. That's assuming I keep both of the JC trinkets on. [Figurine - Emerald Boar] and [Figurine - Monarch Crab]

Im using the vanilla frost tanking talent tree as a starting point, my avoidance is no where near enough to try anything exotic.

The blue sockets are pretty much +stam gem bound but I was trying to figure out if I should be looking for +dodge or or +parry for the other sockets. I have a vague feeling that 1:1 parry is a better choice but in a crowd with mob's behind me that dodge is better, I try to avoid the latter since that means I didn't plan something right.

I'm not sure what it is im doing wrong, but I'm finding I have a hard time picking up enough instant aggro while aoe tanking all the adds for sarth+2, +3. My rotation is : DnD, IT, PS, Pest, BB, HB, BB, BB, HB. I drop DnD right before the whelps appear so it is ticking as they spawn. I also lose threat on them to the healers while i pull them to where they will get aoe'd down. I also seem to be unable to generate enough threat on all the lava spawns to pull them along with the whelps.

my spec is http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=111213050406

my armory is The World of Warcraft Armory
In case it isn't updating correctly, im at 194 hit and 23 expertise, in mostly 25 man drops.

I have talked to my raid leader, and he says that so-and-so with so-and-so guild says he never has a problem so i better do it. I'm not sure what I need to change. I tried unholy tanking, That helped some, but I wasnt able to produce nearly as much single-target threat as I did frost spec, which hurt a lot for fights like patch or thaddius. Unholy also felt akward, like I was always waiting for runes to come back up. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

This is so wrong on many levels. First thing you want to do is try to read up about tanking stats in general, ratings in particular. Dodge is vastly superior to parry, due to less diminishing returns and much better rating>skill conversion. And you can't dodge from behind, only mobs can, all player avoidance is frontal only(but miss from defense/lichborne obviously).

As posted earlier, 2 points in Two-handed Weapon Specialization is 4% damage for Auto Attacks, Rune Strikes, Obliterates, Blood Strikes, Plague Strikes and even Frost Strikes.

Each point of subversion is 3% crit to Obliterate. Subversion is at the very top of the tree compared to 2H spec being down one tier, but that is irrelevant since the consensus seems to be that Bladed Armor is better than both talents put together.

Deep Blood or Frost specced tanks get an additional 45% damage bonus to Obliterate Crits, whereas Deep Unholy will be using Scourge Strike instead of Obliterate.

So the question is, does the +9% crit chance for the 245% damage crit obliterates(melee crits are 2x correct? im an armchair powergamer these days, so I'm pretty hazy on specifics) outweigh 4% damage for Auto, RS, Ob, BS/HS, PS, and FS, + an additional talent point to spend elsewhere. Maybe someone who isn't mostly allergic to math can provide some hard calculations that proves it one way or another, but my gut tells me that Frost and Blood will want 3/3 Subversion, and Unholy doesn't want either talent and would rather have 3/5 Dark Conviction, although most unholy tank specs I've seen are 53+ deep in the tree, which means you don't have the points to go past Bladed Armor anyway.

Not sure why you're unable to get instant aggro. One thing that has helped me with Frost AoE tanking in the past is to ignore Plague Strike, so I can get that HB off in 2 GCDs instead of 3. On a similar note, I cannot imagine how any mob that's been sitting in a DnD for 5 seconds, and has been hit with a Howling Blast could possibly get healing aggro, especially as part of a pack. Healers just don't cause that much threat (remember, heals are cut in half and threat is spread between all aggroed mobs). It should be easier next patch when you can spam HB...

Additionally, while I'm pretty sure the elementals are immune to it, the whelps are not immune to hungering cold, or at least they weren't the one time I did Sarth with the whelp drake up, which was 2-3 weeks ago. While they wont stay trapped long, that still buys you at least a second or two of time to wait for runes to refresh, drop an optimally placed DnD, or just go straight into HB since they all have frost fever now.

Lava Spawns aren't terribly life-threatening to a healer unless they are enraged, or there are alot on them. I can't really comment on how long/how many elementals you have to tank during 2 and 3 drake sarth, but as long as you have a rogue with anasthetic offhand for a fan of knives after the lava waves go, it doesn't matter if one or two elementals is loose from time to time, as long as you get on them quickly.

Even on zero drake or 1 drake with whelp sarth, when a lot less is going on, you can't really be expected to have aggro on every single add. As long as you have most of them, and make sure that a healer isn't getting interrupted or the tank doesn't have one on him, you'll do fine. I assume you don't have morbidity for this fight due to the framerate bug. If you drop DnD before the whelps spawn, that means you are missing out on one or more ticks of DnD aggro, so I would instead pestilence your diseases from an elemental that you are tanking onto the whelps, blast, and then DnD.

Perhaps someone with more experience than me can comment or even correct me, as I've never had to deal with more than just the whelp drake, but quickly grabbing multiple adds is something that tends to have similarities regardless of the encounter.

I was having the same issue with adds on Sarth +3. We ended up switching me to sarth tank and having the warrior pick up the adds. Oddly the warrior actually has more tools to use. Intercept, Thunderclap and shockwave. Not to mention a ranged weapon.

Also the Dk has more tools to deal with the magic damage from Sarth. I actually ended up being easier to heal on Sarth and the warrior did an exceptional job picking up adds. So you may want to suggest that.

In terms of Glyphs our minor glyphs are dam right awful.

I have been going through a few things lately and trying to work out whether as a Frost DK it's Worth having some points in Acclimation. At this stage I do not have any points in it however for encounters like Sartharion, Malygos, Sapphiron etc it would make tanking and healing much easier as their is a higher probability of resisting the incoming magic damage from the bosses.

The only issue I have is where to take the points out of. I have been thinking about dropping Bladed Armor down to 2 points allowing me to put 3 points in Acclimation but this will significantly drop my Attack Power. At the moment without Frost Presence I am getting around 435 extra Attack Power with Frost Presence 735ish extra attack power. It that much attack power actually worth it threat wise?

The other thing I have noticed is that in terms of threat I can significantly out TPS our main Warrior Tank but I have massive issues keeping threat up with our Paladins. We have two Paladin Tanks in guild and I consistently see them pushing 10 - 12K threat whilst I am at best pushing maximum of around 9.5k - 10.5K threat I just find it strange that Paladins can push so much TPS our Warrior MT can only push around 7K TPS obviously it's enough to keep above the DPS but I am curious how many ppl have noticed the TPS that Paladins are putting out.