Hello, i have searched all over for something to answer my question and have been unsuccessful. previous to patch 3.1 i was raiding 25 man naxx in a typical unholy aoe tanking build. After the patch i was having alot of trouble holding aggro the way i was used to. im only putting out 1.4-1.6k dps in 10 man naxx when previous to the patch on a less geared dk i was putting out 2k easy. i switched to blood tanking and i am still having threat issues. now my question. are these issues due to a flawed spec and or a flawed rotaion? my current spec is something new im trying out in unholy but still un happy with. thanks. dextraxx us is my dk name if you want to see his gears.

Briefly:

As unholy - you are missing both of the talents that boost SS damage (Vicious Strikes, Outbreak). SS is your bread and butter attack...

Your glyphs are uncommon for an unholy build - which makes me wonder what rotation you use...

Your gear looks ok - but I would get a better sigil.

As to blood - it is more gear dependent - so you will need some upgrades to see blood really shine.

I can't see your rotations (obviously) - but rotation information is easy to find here on EJ. Check Suno's thread for the basic rotations.

Hope that helps.

Peering over your spec/gear, you are over hitcap by a few points, but your expertise is low. The +str gems should be swapped with +dodge or +expertise gems if you're low there. Get an [Inevitable Defeat] ASAP.

Ravenous Dead is a better threat talent than Virulence is. Outbreak and Dirge top Necrosis IMO, Dirge for more RP to spam rune strike with and Outbreak boosting SS damage. Rune strike and scourge strike are a lot of your boss threat and are essential components. AOE threat shouldn't generally be much of an issue with unholy. Impurity is also questionable, maybe in Naxx but once getting into Ulduar the additional magic mitigation talents become important.

Unholy isn't my preferred tanking tree (never enjoyed the playstyle as much is all) but I'd probably go with Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft myself. IIT can be ditched for more tps talents like dark conviction, vicious strikes or impurity if another DK or warrior is bringing the same debuff to the raid. With dirge and glyph of SS you will likely not have any issues with RP generation.

If AOE threat is your concern, then you need to figure out your role in your raid. If you're an add/trash tank, then more points in AOE talents like wandering plague or the like are warranted. If you're a boss tank, then more in necrosis/BCB/single-target tps talents.

Your DPS isn't a concern so much as your TPS. If you're doing 1400-1600 DPS, that's acceptable for a tank on single targets, but it's where the damage comes from that's the concern as some talents generate more threat than others.

My spec has changed a few times in the past days so my glyphs arent correct for unholy. with my blood build my rotation was DnD>IT>PS>Pest>HS>HS>OB>OB>HS>HS>OB>OB with refreshing diseses with pest,

I am a OT for my raid and adds are my primary target i have no trouble on single targets it adds and multiple targets that im having trouble with. i think that for my roll wondering plague would be necessary what 3 points do you think i could free up to spec into that or even 2.

thx for your help

The page you're looking for is Suno's Fireside Chat, first post - some standard endgame specs and rotations. Blood builds no longer use OB. These days we use Death Strike. I find my spec to be just fine at multi-mob or single target, but like others have said, you need the gear and glyphs to really see Blood shine. Other than the change in rotation, you need more expertise, and less hit (as said above).

The easiest way to get better multi-mob threat is to glyph death and decay and spec 3/3 morbidity, with perhaps a point in wandering plague if you're Unholy. Between the fast, hard D&D, UB, and wandering plague, your housecat should be able to muti-mob tank for you while you watch TV.

My take on unholy AOE tanking: It is just so good by default that it does not need buffing through talents/glyphs. I've yet to encounter AOE tanking situation where unglyphed DnD (3/3 Morbidity ofc), UB, diseases + BB spam do not do the job. In Naxx 10/25 trash my DPS is always quite near the top so AOE threat has always been non-issue even though I have not buffed it at all through talents/glyphs. So my unholy tank spec/glyphs are selected based on MT role and thus I'm glyphing SS/RS/BS and have points in Necrosis to further beef the rather crit-happy RS (RS is naturally macroed to all my strikes) Vicious Strikes/Outbreak are no-brainers. Having Death's Bite and Sigil of Awareness help too and actually makes my ~2.2k single target dps quite nice addition to group dps in 10-man groups. While it takes a few GCDs to get threat single-target really rolling as unholy tank, after the first IT - PS - BS - BS - SS rotation the RS's are rolling nicely and threat is non-issue even when there are DPS'ers doing nearly 5k dps in the group. I often pop Blood Fury and ERW to further beef the aggro on initial boss pull.

Using other of my dual-specs for DPS/PVP build I need to use a single spec for tanking and what's described above has worked quite perfectly as jack-of-all-traces tank build so far. Some people may think my perma-pet is quite out of line for tanking, but there are situations where ~16k instant self-heal, 3 sec stun and shorter-cooldown AotD (as dama-reduction panic button) are handy, especially when pugging as healers are sometimes less than perfect.

I swapped out some of my Single Target talents for more AoE talents and saw a major shift in my TpS. My unholy build rotation was flawed by not using BB enough to make up for no Dmg on Pest. Thank You for answering my questions and hope this might have helped someone else as well.

The World of Warcraft Armory


With this current build I have 3/3 Ravenous Dead which seems pretty popular for Unholy tanking. I'm a little confused as I would think 3% Strength isnt much of a TPS increase. Is there somewhere I can see numbers supporting 3/3 Ravenous Dead over 3/3 BCB or any other single target TPS increases?

Ravenous Dead is to increase your Ghoul's damage/survivability. If you don't have a ghoul, it's not better than many other dps talents.

This is true, but I see a lot of Unholy tank builds with Ravenous Dead but no permanent ghoul so I had thought they took it for the tps increase. Are you saying for strict TPS BCB would be better then RD?

Why take BCB in a tanking spec? Won't that increase the chance to get gibbed by boss parries?

To comment on some of the posts that I read, yes DK tanks are very much capable of tanking not only 5 mans and being an OT for raids but are very capable (depending on gear, spec and skill of player) of being a main tank. I tank with my dk in a frost spec similar to the specs posted in the forums, but I am looking for some tips on proper point placements that are up to date with the new patch. I can produce as high as 6-7k tps but I average 4-5k tps, but I find that I'm not exactly rune friendly. Any tips on rotation would also be appreciated.

I'm not sure which thread you were reading where people are questioning DKs ability to main tank, but if you read the past few pages you'll find the rotations you're seeking. Your gear looks to be fine, along with your spec, for the most part. Your glyphs, however, leave something to be desired. I would suggest rune strike, obliterate, and howling blast or icy touch, depending how you roll, for highest threat.

Your spec and glyphs are currently best for tanking trash and Thorim's arena. To tweak your spec, I would put points into scent of blood from morbidity. Also, max out killing machine by taking points from merciless combat and icy reach. Depending on your rotation other changes can be made, but those would be the only necessary changes in my mind.

For reference, I commonly produce 6-7k tps and can peak at 11k. But that's just from glancing at omen.

Dur, you're correct, I forgot that BCS suffer a separate hit test from the white swing. Necrosis, then. Unholy isn't my preferred tank tree, I use that talent for DPS but forgot that suffering an extra hit test means another boss parry chance on it when you're the aggro target.

As unholy tank, you use less parriable strikes. Taking BcB is fine, you won't see any more parry compared to frost / blood tanks.

For unholy, 3/3 BcB is already comparable to 5/5 necrosis for dps/tps increase. You will need all the single target buffs you can get; Single target tanking is unholy's weakest area.

Your goal on these forums to min/max. What you're doing is increasing damage for the healers - being through Ulduar 10man and 25man - I can vouch that *any* Parry Hasting is not worth it. If Unholy has "less parry-able attacks" - you work with that.

But, now - speaking about "less parries" - go do you get that? With the SS - the basic rotation sans first set is SS-SS-SS. Frost is HB-OB-BS-IT, Blood is IT-PS-BS-BS-DS (changes, I know.) Iirc, IT is Resisted - not parried so, Frost is the lowest for Parried attacks.

That's completely false. Blue didn't state that at all. They turned off parry haste on Patchwerk, they admitted that.

And to respond to your comment - Vezex hit's hard, and, iirc, parry hastes. Freya falls in to the same category.

Only Ulduar boss I remember Blizz saying they disabled parry hasting on is Ignis.

I was stating that unholy is the weakest in single target tanking. Unless you have a different spec for tanking, not taking BcB is nerfing your DPS - hence your TPS. 3/3 BcB gives comparable DPS/TPS to 5/5 Necrosis, hence BcB is worth more, point for point than necrosis.

You are blood specced. You have the most parry hasting over other DK tanks, but still less than warriors. Don't forget HSx4 + DS on your second rotation there. Frost has the least amount of parry hasting.

On all fights in ulduar I'd say parry hasting is the least of my worries. The only boss that is capable of one shotting the tank is Ignis when he has more than 3 adds up. If that's the case, you have more problem than just parry hasting. And guess what, parry hasting has been disabled for Ignis.

Vezax hit for ~20k and hits pretty slow. Unless you are not kiting him when he does the shadow buff. As someone from above said, Ignis doesn't parry haste.

I wouldn't go around stating that as a fact until you've tried Blood with no armor lowering debuffs.

What bizarro world are you living in? Vezax hits harder than that on 10 man, and he attacks at 1.8 attack speed (whereas the "standard" mob attack speed is 2.5).

Vezax's average melee on a DK tank is around ~18k with maybe ~25k max hits on 25. It should be about 20% lower on 10.

[Edit] First estimate was a little low.