DK Tanking Discussion - Page 121

MissnL1nK · 01/15/09, 10:55 AM

Does anyone know if any Stat Weights have been posted for tanking. I looked over a large part of this thread and I haven't found any, but I want to say I have seen them posted somewhere on EJ. All I am looking for is some stat weights for dodge, parry, def, etc... and what the values per stat are. My gear is becoming much better and I wanted to adjust for more avoidance, I just want to do correctly.

Fireflash38 · 01/15/09, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Vengeful

I realize I could have put 5 points into Dark Conviction and picked up a little more threat, but 10% Rune Tap I feel has saved my ass (and my raid) numerous times, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to make it a 20% heal. Besides... isn't a 20% Heal on a 35k Health Pool something like 4.5k threat for one rune?

From what I have seen, Rune Tap provides no threat whatsoever. DK Threat Values

Vengeful · 01/15/09, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Fireflash38

From what I have seen, Rune Tap provides no threat whatsoever. DK Threat Values

That's a shame.

Fireflash38 · 01/15/09, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by MissnL1nK

Does anyone know if any Stat Weights have been posted for tanking. I looked over a large part of this thread and I haven't found any, but I want to say I have seen them posted somewhere on EJ. All I am looking for is some stat weights for dodge, parry, def, etc... and what the values per stat are. My gear is becoming much better and I wanted to adjust for more avoidance, I just want to do correctly.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/

Flamingcloud · 01/15/09, 11:27 AM

Well, patch 3.08 surely can't be that far off now so I think focus would be far better turned to builds/glyphs/gearing for next patch.

Some potential specs with glyphs:

Blood w/morbidity
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=152009040506

Blood w/out morbidity
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=152016040506

Frost w/ morbidity
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=151013040506

Frost w/out morbidity
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=151013040506

Frost/VotTW
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=151013040506

Unholy
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=150409040506

I am leaning towards blood spec, probably w/morbidity as blood should be by far the best effective health spec, and vampiric blood should be easily the best of the cooldowns due to being 30 seconds where you basically can't die if any heals are incoming. Pickup gargoyle runeforge, regem to stam, stam to bracers, swap armor trinket for stam, go from like 38000 fulled buffed to 44k+.

If I couldn't go with a spec with as bad aoe as blood, I would probably go frost, no cooldown HB, and new KM is very sexy, and frost should easily have the best single target and aoe threat of the specs.

Pyros · 01/15/09, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Fireflash38

From what I have seen, Rune Tap provides no threat whatsoever. DK Threat Values

Hmm I wonder if that's actually true, last time I rune tapped on sartharion I aggroed all the whelps and they sticked to me for a while(crit runetap for ~8k ish). Might have been a coincidence since they often randomly go for someone when they exit portal, but they stayed on me for a while, when there's obviously a lot of healing going around. Guess I'll test it later to make sure.

MissnL1nK · 01/15/09, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Fireflash38

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t29453-c...gs_level_80_a/

That is a good link but I am not sure that all of those numbers apply to a Death Knight properly. A few of them seem to be more toward warriors/pallies. Isn't the general rule Dodge > Parry because of insta-gibs? This post has Parry > Dodge.

Namuh · 01/15/09, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Flamingcloud

Well, patch 3.08 surely can't be that far off now so I think focus would be far better turned to builds/glyphs/gearing for next patch.

Some potential specs with glyphs:

Frost/VotTW
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=151013040506

I am leaning towards blood spec, probably w/morbidity as blood should be by far the best effective health spec, and vampiric blood should be easily the best of the cooldowns due to being 30 seconds where you basically can't die if any heals are incoming. Pickup gargoyle runeforge, regem to stam, stam to bracers, swap armor trinket for stam, go from like 38000 fulled buffed to 44k+.

If I couldn't go with a spec with as bad aoe as blood, I would probably go frost, no cooldown HB, and new KM is very sexy, and frost should easily have the best single target and aoe threat of the specs.

The Frost/VotTW spec you needs a little work.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=151013040506

Is more appropiate for that build

Fireflash38 · 01/15/09, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by MissnL1nK

That is a good link but I am not sure that all of those numbers apply to a Death Knight properly. A few of them seem to be more toward warriors/pallies. Isn't the general rule Dodge > Parry because of insta-gibs? This post has Parry > Dodge.

Parry hasting is what happens when the boss parries your attacks. That is where you might get insta-gibbed on certain bosses.

Point-for-point, before diminishing returns, Dodge is better than Parry (for Wars/Pallies as well), as shown in the 80 combat ratings table in that post. When you factor in DR as a DK, dodge gets even better because you will naturally have a high parry rating. Do not discount the benefits of pure +defense though, because the DR is spread out among more stats (dodge, parry and miss).

Originally Posted by Pyros

Hmm I wonder if that's actually true, last time I rune tapped on sartharion I aggroed all the whelps and they sticked to me for a while(crit runetap for ~8k ish). Might have been a coincidence since they often randomly go for someone when they exit portal, but they stayed on me for a while, when there's obviously a lot of healing going around. Guess I'll test it later to make sure.

I have not personally tested it. Threat mechanics for some things are kind of strange (for instance, trinket procs can give you aggro [only on mobs that have not been tapped, nor has someone been healed]). Also, the normal rotation for Unholy would have RP dump with Unholy blight, which might have kept the whelps on you (although I imagine you would have noticed that).

Kaejin · 01/15/09, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by MissnL1nK

That is a good link but I am not sure that all of those numbers apply to a Death Knight properly. A few of them seem to be more toward warriors/pallies. Isn't the general rule Dodge > Parry because of insta-gibs? This post has Parry > Dodge.

Dodge > Parry because of parry's miserable rating conversion and diminishing returns. Insta-gibs are subject to a large amount of hyperbole. Sure it's not good to cause a boss to parry, but there aren't a lot of cases in current raid content where it will insta-gib a geared tank with decent healers.

I'd love to hear what Blizzard has against parry, one day.

Flamingcloud · 01/15/09, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Namuh

The Frost/VotTW spec you needs a little work.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=151013040506

Is more appropiate for that build

By more work you mean dropping two mitigation talents for two threat talents? I wouldn't think that more appropriate. I am not sure why I put one point in merciless combat over glacier rot but there is no way I would get crit talents over spell deflection. Frost aura is personal taste, but I would realistically rather have 5 resist on the raid sometimes than a point in glacier rot and merciless combat. If the spec the way I did it was too low threat I just wouldn't do it at all (I probably wouldn't anyways as I would probably deep blood or deep frost)

On the subject of instant gibs from parry I got gibbed the other day on phase one Thaddius, got sent flying through the air, when I landed the dps was attacking from the front and I got hit 5 times for 9k in one second. Also on 10 man sarth 3drakes, I got parried twice when he was buffed with +50%dmg/attack speed and got killed in 2 seconds from full. In both cases however I also got a very unlucky string of me not avoiding anything.

MissnL1nK · 01/15/09, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Fireflash38

Point-for-point, before diminishing returns, Dodge is better than Parry (for Wars/Pallies as well), as shown in the 80 combat ratings table in that post.

The chart has Parry being higher than Dodge.

Parry 49.18
Dodge 39.35

Unless I am looking at the wrong chart this seems to be the way they have it listed. The only area where I see Dodge > Parry is at level 60.

Feanorr · 01/15/09, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by MissnL1nK

The chart has Parry being higher than Dodge.

Parry 49.18
Dodge 39.35

Unless I am looking at the wrong chart this seems to be the way they have it listed. The only area where I see Dodge > Parry is at level 60.

It mean that you need 49 parry rating for 1% parry and 39 dodge rating for 1%dodge; try to understand what you read.

Namuh · 01/15/09, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by Flamingcloud

By more work you mean dropping two mitigation talents for two threat talents? I wouldn't think that more appropriate. I am not sure why I put one point in merciless combat over glacier rot but there is no way I would get crit talents over spell deflection. Frost aura is personal taste, but I would realistically rather have 5 resist on the raid sometimes than a point in glacier rot and merciless combat. If the spec the way I did it was too low threat I just wouldn't do it at all (I probably wouldn't anyways as I would probably deep blood or deep frost)

On the subject of instant gibs from parry I got gibbed the other day on phase one Thaddius, got sent flying through the air, when I landed the dps was attacking from the front and I got hit 5 times for 9k in one second. Also on 10 man sarth 3drakes, I got parried twice when he was buffed with +50%dmg/attack speed and got killed in 2 seconds from full. In both cases however I also got a very unlucky string of me not avoiding anything.

My first change of course was glacier rot as its part of what makes HB so effective.
Spell deflection is direct spell damage only, auras and dots are not affected atm.
Spell Deflection is (was?) broken - and crit is threat.

MissnL1nK · 01/15/09, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Feanorr

It mean that you need 49 parry rating for 1% parry and 39 dodge rating for 1%dodge; try to understand what you read.

Yea I caught that after I posted. I was thinking it was stat weight toward items when it is a stat weight toward percentages. So that was my mistake.