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Old 03/03/09, 7:52 AM   #2596
ZaoZao
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Mannoroth (EU)
Since Necrosis procs off Rune Strike there is no reason to not take it, especially over talents like Virulence and Corpse Explosion. I do remember that Necrosis was accountable for around 8% of my total damage done on most non-AoE bossfights
Also Vicious Strike is quite pointless since your main FU ability is Obliterate which isn't affected by it. Not to mention Outbreak which is very lackluster until 3.1 and the buff to Plague Strike.

PS: BcB IS a bad tanking talent since the additional strike can be parried, but I suppose it too would procc off RS (never tested it though and too lazy to read it up now)

PPS: This is how I personally would switch around the points in the unholy tree

Last edited by ZaoZao : 03/03/09 at 7:56 AM. Reason: Added some numbers

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Old 03/03/09, 8:29 AM   #2597
Zerath
Piston Honda
 
Zerath's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Aerie Peak
BcB does induce Parry-Hasting but the board came to the conclusion it's not worth skipping if you want to take it. We still have less abilities that Parry-Haste us over Warriors.

If you *really* want BcB - take it. The probability that it will insta-gib you is extremely low, especially in our current raiding environment.

Over all, it will increase your TPS slightly if you have no other uses for those 3 points.

CE is a fantastic "filler" point, imo. Any build in Unholy will have that for me if there will be AoE packs in the foreseeable future, it was a fun talent and increased AoE dmg a smidgen.

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Old 03/03/09, 5:42 PM   #2598
pr0nny
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Spinebreaker
edit: nevermind

Last edited by pr0nny : 03/03/09 at 6:38 PM.

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Old 03/03/09, 10:31 PM   #2599
verik
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Black Dragonflight
In terms of single-target tanking as a 2H/frost tank, what is a better use of runes: Oblit or HB? I find that my HB crits for much more than my Oblit and it costs less runes. So why would any tank use Oblit > HB? Other than single-target tanking I can't think of any situation where a tank would want to use an ability that does less damage and costs more.

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Old 03/03/09, 11:42 PM   #2600
itseizeyou
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Zangarmarsh
I rarely use Oblit. Like Verik said, it seems useless to use it when it costs more and does less damage then a lot of my other abilities. If it's up and I happen to see it, I'll use it, otherwise it's not in my main rotation.

Even on single targets HB crits way more often and does more damage all around for me. I would stick with HB.

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Old 03/03/09, 11:59 PM   #2601
Fallenmartyr
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Ghostlands
Hey everyone long time reader first time poster I need some advice as to how important hit cap is for us dk tanks i have played all tank specs and here is the current gear i support The World of Warcraft Armory

I just snagged a jawbone and was wondering if it is worth giving up the hit for a little more expertise i have the dragon brood leggings also on a side note still waiting for a BoH but what can you do.

Sorry if this post is a little on the lack of information side but any advice is appericated thank you

PaulKemp

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Old 03/04/09, 12:09 AM   #2602
rutiene
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by verik View Post
In terms of single-target tanking as a 2H/frost tank, what is a better use of runes: Oblit or HB? I find that my HB crits for much more than my Oblit and it costs less runes. So why would any tank use Oblit > HB? Other than single-target tanking I can't think of any situation where a tank would want to use an ability that does less damage and costs more.
HB and Obliterate both cost 1 Unholy and 1 Frost. Also, HB goes on CD when its used so you can't spam it. But generally I use HB whenever Killing Machine procs and I don't have enough runic power for Frost Strike.

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Old 03/04/09, 2:38 AM   #2603
czokalapik
Von Kaiser
 
czokalapik's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Wildhammer (EU)
I use obliterate, because it does more damage when Glyphed than HB, it scales better with better weapons, HB don't. I can spam it in my rotation (which uses about 4-6 Obliterates in 20sec period depending on Death Runes).
Oh, and i use HB in AoE tanking or when Rime procs, and only then.

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Old 03/04/09, 5:27 PM   #2604
verik
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Black Dragonflight
Wow don't I feel stupid...I can't believe I thought HB was only 1 Frost....


Anyway, thanks for your answers but I'm not sure I really got a definitive answer. I guess what I'm saying is that if I were tanking a boss, with no adds, (assuming I am not spec'd for Death Runes) is it better to just use Oblit? I think I already know the answer, I just want to make sure that I should be incorporating it into my main tanking rotation.

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Old 03/05/09, 12:55 AM   #2605
jimmyolsen
Von Kaiser
 
jimmyolsen's Avatar
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Uldum
Originally Posted by verik View Post
Wow don't I feel stupid...I can't believe I thought HB was only 1 Frost....


Anyway, thanks for your answers but I'm not sure I really got a definitive answer. I guess what I'm saying is that if I were tanking a boss, with no adds, (assuming I am not spec'd for Death Runes) is it better to just use Oblit? I think I already know the answer, I just want to make sure that I should be incorporating it into my main tanking rotation.

It depends entirely on your gearing and spec. The 23/45/3 builds tend to pick up an extra 9% crit from subversion to obliterate that helps it scale much faster. Secondly, Sigil of Awareness provides a substantial boost to Obliterate. Lastly (and probably most importantly) as your weapon upgrades, Obliterate scales; Howling blast does not

You'll also need to factor in things like Curse of Elements vs. Sunder Armor, Expertise for obliterate, Hit rating for Howling Blast, and Partial Resists.

The best way to decide if you should use Howling Blast EVERY time it's available or only for Rime procs is simply testing in raid-like environments and compare the average damage with each (factoring in Crits, misses, etc).

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Old 03/08/09, 1:37 AM   #2606
Feliska
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Korgath
I have a question, why exactly is Betrayer considered BiS for Dk tanks? I wasn't able to find any definitive data on it.
It looks like Inevitable Defeat would be the better weapon.
Am I missing something?
Sorry if I'm not posting this in the right forum. My guild was telling me that ID was BiS, and I have seen that Betrayer was - anyone know the math behind them?

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Old 03/08/09, 6:34 AM   #2607
Zerath
Piston Honda
 
Zerath's Avatar
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Aerie Peak
Originally Posted by Feliska View Post
I have a question, why exactly is Betrayer considered BiS for Dk tanks? I wasn't able to find any definitive data on it.
It looks like Inevitable Defeat would be the better weapon.
Am I missing something?
Sorry if I'm not posting this in the right forum. My guild was telling me that ID was BiS, and I have seen that Betrayer was - anyone know the math behind them?
This is a fun question and, imo, it falls down to racial +exp for these three weapons.

ID/Death's Bite/Betrayer.

ID will be used by most due to the +EXP. This will increase TPS more so once you are hit/exp capped.
DB adds a substantial amount of +HIT while not having any wasted stats.
Betrayer has top DPS but lacks +EXP or +HIT, also, the lack of +STR drops our Parry slightly.

It breaks down to what you want to use and your style of tanking. If you're HIT/EXP capped, Betrayer's DPS will increase your TPS. But, if you're like a few of us and push EXP, the ID is going to benefit you more so.

(My knowledge of ID refers back to Notebook's posts as it's only dropped once for my raid and it went to a Fury Warrior.)

Personally, I use DB since that's all that has dropped and letting the Betrayer go to DPS is priority.

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Old 03/08/09, 10:31 AM   #2608
Flamingcloud
Great Tiger
 
Goblin Warlock
 
Cho'gall
Everything you posted there boils down to TPS. ID is definitely the BiS dk weapon if what you are looking for is survivability. It is the only high stam/agility weapon.

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Old 03/08/09, 2:17 PM   #2609
teiglin
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Eldre'Thalas
Originally Posted by Flamingcloud View Post
Everything you posted there boils down to TPS. ID is definitely the BiS dk weapon if what you are looking for is survivability. It is the only high stam/agility weapon.
[Inevitable Defeat] has more agi and only 1 less stam than [Betrayer of Humanity], while adding strength i.e. parry, so I'd say it provides significantly more survivability than BoH, though of course the latter's higher DPS and DPS stat allocation will provide higher threat in most cases.

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Old 03/08/09, 3:22 PM   #2610
Feliska
Glass Joe
 
Worgen Death Knight
 
Korgath
great, thank you guys for your responses -much appreciated.

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