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Old 05/05/09, 2:39 PM   #2821
discofurby
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Lightbringer
Also needing some help with my spec..
I just picked up DK tanking about a week ago, I swapped from a warrior since DK's are better at everything >.>.....
I've been playing around and I enjoy frost the most, and this is the spec that I'm currently using.. but I left out the 5 points I was unsure about. Spec

Basically I've been trying to weight the differences between Bladed Armor, 2h Spec, and Morbidity. Being new to DK I'm not really sure of which would be more vital to tanking between Bladed Armor and 2H Spec, but as for Morbidity, I rarely find myself using DnD except on initial pulls (am I tanking poorly? We have no prior DK tanks to which I can compare myself to in my guild), so I don't see the point in tanking 3/3 in that. So should I be speccing 3/5 BA and 2/2 2H Spec? Or should I be relooking my tanking style and take 3/3 Morbidity and use DnD more?

Edit: Just wanted to add that I'm only really tanking Uld 10/25.

Last edited by discofurby : 05/05/09 at 2:48 PM.

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Old 05/05/09, 2:57 PM   #2822
Tszyu
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Malygos
Originally Posted by discofurby View Post
Spec

Basically I've been trying to weight the differences between Bladed Armor, 2h Spec, and Morbidity. Being new to DK I'm not really sure of which would be more vital to tanking between Bladed Armor and 2H Spec, but as for Morbidity, I rarely find myself using DnD except on initial pulls (am I tanking poorly? We have no prior DK tanks to which I can compare myself to in my guild), so I don't see the point in tanking 3/3 in that. So should I be speccing 3/5 BA and 2/2 2H Spec? Or should I be relooking my tanking style and take 3/3 Morbidity and use DnD more?

Edit: Just wanted to add that I'm only really tanking Uld 10/25.
There's really no need for Endless Winter or the increase in range. I would drop all of the points out of those. Put 3 into BA, 2 into 2h spec, and 3 in morbidity if you want. I found morbidity to be great for fights like Thorim P1 and it's fairly useful on Freya. It's also nice for Mimiron P3 depending on your strategy.

You're going to need to put one point into one of the one point talents (Lichborne or HC). It's a toss up in my opinion. I never find myself using HC and Lichborne is nice if I am tanking Auriaya.

Personally, I don't use DnD unless there are adds to be picked up and never on single target tanking.

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Old 05/05/09, 3:47 PM   #2823
Wolfetones
Glass Joe
 
Wolfetones's Avatar
 
Tauren Hunter
 
Ghostlands (EU)
Talent questions

Hey guys i am wondering where to put 2 talent points and i hope you could help My build is (Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft) and i am wondering should i put the 2 talents into Two-Handed weapon or Epidemic. Any suggestions? Cheers

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Old 05/05/09, 3:50 PM   #2824
Siawn
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Death Knight
 
Bloodscalp
Originally Posted by jai151 View Post
So I have a conundrum. I've been running with my current spec since 3.1, Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft, and while I haven't had any issues with it, I know I had a few wasted points (bloodworms, for instance, was testing to see if they'd increased the heal to be worth it. Answer, not so much) and since I'm now main tanking Ulduar, I wanted to clean it up a bit.

However, most of the opinions here seem to really be at odds with my personal experiences. Rune tap, for example, I'd never be caught without yet most seem to view it as expendable.

So I don't know, I guess I'm just looking for some advice.
Specs are fairly subjective, but I'll give you my opinion on yours.
Trying to pick up UB in Unholy makes you sacrifice too many useful points in Blood for it to be worth it. You're giving up a lot of crit (Subversion, Dark Conviction), a lot of damage on those crits (Might of Mograine), and several talents to significantly increase your damage/threat (Bloody Vengeance, Blood-Gorged), not to mention a large source of RP generation (Scent of Blood) to make sure you are missing as few opportunities for RS's as possible.

Necrosis is nice, BCB isn't bad, UB is good for gathering adds, but if you want to MT, leave the add-tanking to the OT's and focus on talents that boost your single-target tps. Morbidity gives DC's a nice boost, and should be more than sufficient to hold threat on any fight where even as the MT you find yourself needing to pick up a few adds.

Things I would drop altogether are Bloodworms, which you already mentioned, Sudden Doom, which provides too little extra tps for it to be worth the three points, Improved Blood Presence, which provides far too little healing to be worth a two-point investment, and Unholy Command, which you shouldn't really need. Death Rune Mastery is not a bad talent, but as a tank you should be using DS instead of HS, as the healing is now fairly significant, and scales with gear.

Here is a spec I'll be testing to see if I like Rune Tap in Ulduar or not. I skipped it in Naxx/Maly/Sarth because I never felt like it was necessary, but with the more strenuous healing in Ulduar, it might be useful in certain fights.

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Old 05/05/09, 4:07 PM   #2825
Emod
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Alleria
Originally Posted by Thx_138 View Post
Glyph of IBF was nice before the patch but the change makes it almost useless for a tank who is already at the defense cap.
It was posted sometime back in this thread, but just for clarification, Glyph of IBF still provides a 10% benefit to those at def cap despite how the text reads. I'm able to take my reduction from 44% to 54%. Given the 2 min cooldowns of the three main tree talents, I like it better than Glyph of Unbreakable Armor (though I still use both).

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Old 05/05/09, 4:39 PM   #2826
Dextrax
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Hello, i have searched all over for something to answer my question and have been unsuccessful. previous to patch 3.1 i was raiding 25 man naxx in a typical unholy aoe tanking build. After the patch i was having alot of trouble holding aggro the way i was used to. im only putting out 1.4-1.6k dps in 10 man naxx when previous to the patch on a less geared dk i was putting out 2k easy. i switched to blood tanking and i am still having threat issues. now my question. are these issues due to a flawed spec and or a flawed rotaion? my current spec is something new im trying out in unholy but still un happy with. thanks. dextraxx us is my dk name if you want to see his gears.

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Old 05/05/09, 5:13 PM   #2827
DWeidman
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Dextrax View Post
now my question. are these issues due to a flawed spec and or a flawed rotaion?
Briefly:

As unholy - you are missing both of the talents that boost SS damage (Vicious Strikes, Outbreak). SS is your bread and butter attack...

Your glyphs are uncommon for an unholy build - which makes me wonder what rotation you use...

Your gear looks ok - but I would get a better sigil.

As to blood - it is more gear dependent - so you will need some upgrades to see blood really shine.

I can't see your rotations (obviously) - but rotation information is easy to find here on EJ. Check Suno's thread for the basic rotations.

Hope that helps.

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Old 05/05/09, 6:23 PM   #2828
rh8452
Piston Honda
 
rh8452's Avatar
 
Worgen Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Dextrax View Post
Hello, i have s
Peering over your spec/gear, you are over hitcap by a few points, but your expertise is low. The +str gems should be swapped with +dodge or +expertise gems if you're low there. Get an [Inevitable Defeat] ASAP.

Ravenous Dead is a better threat talent than Virulence is. Outbreak and Dirge top Necrosis IMO, Dirge for more RP to spam rune strike with and Outbreak boosting SS damage. Rune strike and scourge strike are a lot of your boss threat and are essential components. AOE threat shouldn't generally be much of an issue with unholy. Impurity is also questionable, maybe in Naxx but once getting into Ulduar the additional magic mitigation talents become important.

Unholy isn't my preferred tanking tree (never enjoyed the playstyle as much is all) but I'd probably go with Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft myself. IIT can be ditched for more tps talents like dark conviction, vicious strikes or impurity if another DK or warrior is bringing the same debuff to the raid. With dirge and glyph of SS you will likely not have any issues with RP generation.

If AOE threat is your concern, then you need to figure out your role in your raid. If you're an add/trash tank, then more points in AOE talents like wandering plague or the like are warranted. If you're a boss tank, then more in necrosis/BCB/single-target tps talents.

Your DPS isn't a concern so much as your TPS. If you're doing 1400-1600 DPS, that's acceptable for a tank on single targets, but it's where the damage comes from that's the concern as some talents generate more threat than others.

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Old 05/05/09, 6:48 PM   #2829
Dextrax
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
Originally Posted by DWeidman View Post
Briefly:

Your glyphs are uncommon for an unholy build - which makes me wonder what rotation you use...

I can't see your rotations (obviously) - but rotation information is easy to find here on EJ. Check Suno's thread for the basic rotations.

Hope that helps.
My spec has changed a few times in the past days so my glyphs arent correct for unholy. with my blood build my rotation was DnD>IT>PS>Pest>HS>HS>OB>OB>HS>HS>OB>OB with refreshing diseses with pest,

Originally Posted by rh8452 View Post
Peering over your spec/gear, you are over hitcap by a few points, but your expertise is low. The +str gems should be swapped with +dodge or +expertise gems if you're low there. Get an [Inevitable Defeat] ASAP.

Ravenous Dead is a better threat talent than Virulence is. Outbreak and Dirge top Necrosis IMO, Dirge for more RP to spam rune strike with and Outbreak boosting SS damage. Rune strike and scourge strike are a lot of your boss threat and are essential components. AOE threat shouldn't generally be much of an issue with unholy. Impurity is also questionable, maybe in Naxx but once getting into Ulduar the additional magic mitigation talents become important.

Unholy isn't my preferred tanking tree (never enjoyed the playstyle as much is all) but I'd probably go with Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft myself. IIT can be ditched for more tps talents like dark conviction, vicious strikes or impurity if another DK or warrior is bringing the same debuff to the raid. With dirge and glyph of SS you will likely not have any issues with RP generation.

If AOE threat is your concern, then you need to figure out your role in your raid. If you're an add/trash tank, then more points in AOE talents like wandering plague or the like are warranted. If you're a boss tank, then more in necrosis/BCB/single-target tps talents.

Your DPS isn't a concern so much as your TPS. If you're doing 1400-1600 DPS, that's acceptable for a tank on single targets, but it's where the damage comes from that's the concern as some talents generate more threat than others.
I am a OT for my raid and adds are my primary target i have no trouble on single targets it adds and multiple targets that im having trouble with. i think that for my roll wondering plague would be necessary what 3 points do you think i could free up to spec into that or even 2.

thx for your help

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Old 05/05/09, 10:39 PM   #2830
Tima
Glass Joe
 
Tima's Avatar
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Silvermoon
The page you're looking for is Suno's Fireside Chat, first post - some standard endgame specs and rotations. Blood builds no longer use OB. These days we use Death Strike. I find my spec to be just fine at multi-mob or single target, but like others have said, you need the gear and glyphs to really see Blood shine. Other than the change in rotation, you need more expertise, and less hit (as said above).

The easiest way to get better multi-mob threat is to glyph death and decay and spec 3/3 morbidity, with perhaps a point in wandering plague if you're Unholy. Between the fast, hard D&D, UB, and wandering plague, your housecat should be able to muti-mob tank for you while you watch TV.

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Old 05/06/09, 6:53 AM   #2831
slackhoid
Glass Joe
 
Orc Death Knight
 
Spinebreaker (EU)
Originally Posted by rh8452 View Post
If AOE threat is your concern, then you need to figure out your role in your raid. If you're an add/trash tank, then more points in AOE talents like wandering plague or the like are warranted. If you're a boss tank, then more in necrosis/BCB/single-target tps talents.
My take on unholy AOE tanking: It is just so good by default that it does not need buffing through talents/glyphs. I've yet to encounter AOE tanking situation where unglyphed DnD (3/3 Morbidity ofc), UB, diseases + BB spam do not do the job. In Naxx 10/25 trash my DPS is always quite near the top so AOE threat has always been non-issue even though I have not buffed it at all through talents/glyphs. So my unholy tank spec/glyphs are selected based on MT role and thus I'm glyphing SS/RS/BS and have points in Necrosis to further beef the rather crit-happy RS (RS is naturally macroed to all my strikes) Vicious Strikes/Outbreak are no-brainers. Having Death's Bite and Sigil of Awareness help too and actually makes my ~2.2k single target dps quite nice addition to group dps in 10-man groups. While it takes a few GCDs to get threat single-target really rolling as unholy tank, after the first IT - PS - BS - BS - SS rotation the RS's are rolling nicely and threat is non-issue even when there are DPS'ers doing nearly 5k dps in the group. I often pop Blood Fury and ERW to further beef the aggro on initial boss pull.

Using other of my dual-specs for DPS/PVP build I need to use a single spec for tanking and what's described above has worked quite perfectly as jack-of-all-traces tank build so far. Some people may think my perma-pet is quite out of line for tanking, but there are situations where ~16k instant self-heal, 3 sec stun and shorter-cooldown AotD (as dama-reduction panic button) are handy, especially when pugging as healers are sometimes less than perfect.

Last edited by slackhoid : 05/06/09 at 7:26 AM.

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Old 05/06/09, 2:58 PM   #2832
DWeidman
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Death Knight
 
Dragonblight
Originally Posted by Sensui07 View Post
I wasn't sure if having a pet at all times would be good for threat
Pets have their own threat - so it doesn't add or subtract from yours. If you are new to tanking though, you may want to dismiss him as you will have other things to concentrate on (instead of managing a pet).

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Old 05/08/09, 2:05 AM   #2833
Dextrax
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Area 52
I swapped out some of my Single Target talents for more AoE talents and saw a major shift in my TpS. My unholy build rotation was flawed by not using BB enough to make up for no Dmg on Pest. Thank You for answering my questions and hope this might have helped someone else as well.

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Old 05/08/09, 11:01 AM   #2834
prime311
Von Kaiser
 
lol
Draenei Mage
 
Non-US/EU Server
The World of Warcraft Armory


With this current build I have 3/3 Ravenous Dead which seems pretty popular for Unholy tanking. I'm a little confused as I would think 3% Strength isnt much of a TPS increase. Is there somewhere I can see numbers supporting 3/3 Ravenous Dead over 3/3 BCB or any other single target TPS increases?

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Old 05/08/09, 11:06 AM   #2835
Buanna
Piston Honda
 
Troll Shaman
 
Hellscream
Originally Posted by prime311 View Post
With this current build I have 3/3 Ravenous Dead which seems pretty popular for Unholy tanking.
Ravenous Dead is to increase your Ghoul's damage/survivability. If you don't have a ghoul, it's not better than many other dps talents.


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