Hungering Cold I feel is under rated quite heavily as well.
Picture a situation like Sartharion +3 where you're 10% from a Tenebron kill. The DPS can just single target focus him for the last few percent while you pop Hungering Cold and CC every single Hatchling and Flame for 10 seconds.
...
Bladed Armor is a poor man's version of Impurity and this build is able to reach that at least. 30k armor = 833AP.
Sadly. Blizzard also pictured the situation, and the whelps are immune to Hungering Cold. The flames aren't, so at least you have that for the last-10%-of-Sarth enrage. I sometimes pick up Hungering Cold when making my builds... it's just a single talent point, and while it isn't useful all of the time, it's clearly useful some of the time, if only to quickly spread Frost Fever for HB.
It's effectively either that, or one of many options for increasing your DPS/TPS by 0.5-1%... so it's really a judgment call... not like you're giving up something major to grab it, most of the time.
Bladed Armor is a rich man's version of Impurity. It is much, much better of a talent. Much. Bladed armor should be in nearly every DK tanking build.
If you're an Unholy tank (or any spec for that matter, but primarily Unholy) and you're having trouble generating TPS you need to hit the expertise cap for dodge, which is around 5%.
The dodge "soft cap" for expertise is 6.5%, or 26 Expertise (not rating).
Sadly. Blizzard also pictured the situation, and the whelps are immune to Hungering Cold. The flames aren't, so at least you have that for the last-10%-of-Sarth enrage. I sometimes pick up Hungering Cold when making my builds... it's just a single talent point, and while it isn't useful all of the time, it's clearly useful some of the time, if only to quickly spread Frost Fever for HB.
I found that the opposite was true on Sartharion. The whelps were vulnerable to Hungering Cold but the Lava spawns were not. It makes it even easier for a Frost add tanking build to gather and hold the mass of mobs running around. Just HC + HB the whelps when they hatch and you'll have a good hold on them.
I found that the opposite was true on Sartharion. The whelps were vulnerable to Hungering Cold but the Lava spawns were not. It makes it even easier for a Frost add tanking build to gather and hold the mass of mobs running around. Just HC + HB the whelps when they hatch and you'll have a good hold on them.
Hmm, you may be right, I'll have to jog my memory next time. Either way, if you're add-tank on Sartharion + Drakes, remember that HC will only get SOME OF the adds =D.
Sadly. Blizzard also pictured the situation, and the whelps are immune to Hungering Cold. The flames aren't, so at least you have that for the last-10%-of-Sarth enrage. I sometimes pick up Hungering Cold when making my builds... it's just a single talent point, and while it isn't useful all of the time, it's clearly useful some of the time, if only to quickly spread Frost Fever for HB.
It's effectively either that, or one of many options for increasing your DPS/TPS by 0.5-1%... so it's really a judgment call... not like you're giving up something major to grab it, most of the time.
Bladed Armor is a rich man's version of Impurity. It is much, much better of a talent. Much. Bladed armor should be in nearly every DK tanking build.
Hmm, would have to do some numbers on that.
Raid buffed I figure I'd have close to 4k AP without Bladed... something like Howling Blast would gain 400 damage from that, so Impurity would add another 100. That's equivalent to 1000 AP on my character when I cast Howling Blast. I'd need 36k armor to get that from Bladed Armor. However of course Bladed applies to everything and not just my abilities and spells.
Also it's kind of a moot point anyway. The only builds that were picking up Impurity were DW tanks. I think 3.08 will put a big dent in that style with 2H leading the way... and any 2H Frost build ought to just be going deep into the talent tree, grabbing Tundra Stalker and Guile means you can't get to Impurity so Impurity vs Bladed is a pointless comparison
Hello everyone Im a newly formed death knight and will begin tanking in the next few levels but have a few questions.
1. A buddy of mine who is unholy and already doing 3 drakes suggested I go 2/2 chill grave as well as 3/3 runic power....both of which I dont agree with as I would rather have 5/5 KM, but he makes the point that I would be able to spam more DC(when threat is lost could get it back with some good crits) as well as FS, but I am somewhat hesistant since he is deep unholy and never has done frost before.
2. He told me acclimation was a must for tanks, but is it really? He said alot of boss fights have some sort of elemental attack attached to it and its worth the points.
3. No icy talons because it doesnt stack with shaman totems, which my spec went into improved Icy talons
So his frost build for me includes
Runic power
Chill of grave
Acclimaition
1/5 Killing Machine
4/5 Bladed Armor
2/2 2h wep specialization
KM is not good for tanking, or at least, not worth the 5points. Chill of the grave on the other hand is really good, at least in my opinion. Runic power mastery isn't very useful most of the time, so I'd find another way to spend the points(like 3/5 KM if you're stuck on having it). Acclimatation isn't good either, doesn't proc enough, doesn't stay up enough, only group wide, and in a bad position. Only fight it's decent for is Sapphiron. As for imp talons, matter of guild setup and if you do 10 or 25man. It's not very useful for 25man because the chances of not having 2shamans of any spec is rather slim, and the gain over even an untalented windfury is very small considering the amount of points you have to spend. It's also not very useful if your 10man setup is very similar every week(small guild) and you have an enhance shaman.
I have a question regarding 3.0.8. When Howling Blast no longer has a cool down, how necessary will Annihilation be? Howling Blast does as much damage, (even more under the right circumstances) damage than Obliterate does. If Howling Blast can cover everything Obliterate needs to do, why not drop those 3 points into talents we previously ignored (Merciless Combat, Death Chill, RPM, or Dark Conviction?
I have a question regarding 3.0.8. When Howling Blast no longer has a cool down, how necessary will Annihilation be? Howling Blast does as much damage, (even more under the right circumstances) damage than Obliterate does. If Howling Blast can cover everything Obliterate needs to do, why not drop those 3 points into talents we previously ignored (Merciless Combat, Death Chill, RPM, or Dark Conviction?
I found myself still using obliterate just as often on the PTR on any single target situation, simply because it does getter damage and crits at a reasonable rate as a tank... I suppose it's a judgement call though
I have a question regarding 3.0.8. When Howling Blast no longer has a cool down, how necessary will Annihilation be? Howling Blast does as much damage, (even more under the right circumstances) damage than Obliterate does. If Howling Blast can cover everything Obliterate needs to do, why not drop those 3 points into talents we previously ignored (Merciless Combat, Death Chill, RPM, or Dark Conviction?
Obliterate will do even more since it's glyph got buffed (iirc) and does more already. Annihilation adds 3% crit to HB as well, remember.
KM is not good for tanking, or at least, not worth the 5points. Chill of the grave on the other hand is really good, at least in my opinion. Runic power mastery isn't very useful most of the time, so I'd find another way to spend the points(like 3/5 KM if you're stuck on having it). Acclimatation isn't good either, doesn't proc enough, doesn't stay up enough, only group wide, and in a bad position. Only fight it's decent for is Sapphiron. As for imp talons, matter of guild setup and if you do 10 or 25man. It's not very useful for 25man because the chances of not having 2shamans of any spec is rather slim, and the gain over even an untalented windfury is very small considering the amount of points you have to spend. It's also not very useful if your 10man setup is very similar every week(small guild) and you have an enhance shaman.
thing is if you want to get FS (which I do) then I have to put points into either Runic power or KM since those are really the only viable options if I dont go for icy talons
thing is if you want to get FS (which I do) then I have to put points into either Runic power or KM since those are really the only viable options if I dont go for icy talons
It's entirely possible to get FS without any of those three. Personally I don't like any of them for tanking. Icy Talons because in 25 man environment it's just too expensive to cover a single buff. KM because at 5 ppm I see too many getting used by Icy Touch, personal flavor but basing my tps on procs is a bit too risky for me. And RP mastery because seriously who is ever rp capped unless they aren't paying attention.
Filling out the first 3 tiers sans icy talons will carry you past those talents. My question would be: why aren't they viable?
KM is not good for tanking, or at least, not worth the 5points.
I completely agreed with you're sentiment on KM until the announced change to PPM. This may significantly benefit 2H tanking threat generation, particularly with the removal of the HB cooldown.
So, for now, it's *definitely* not worth it for tanking, but after 3.0.8, there is a reasonable chance (somebody has to do the complete math - there's some of it done in the 2W tanking thread) this is going to be a very viable threat talent for Frost tanking.
Unless they slipped a change to Annihilation in 3.0.8 under my nose, Annihilation does not effect Howling Blast. It's melee specials only.
That said I'm currently debating between the frost strike glyph and the oblit glyph assuming the new versions go live.
My bad, you're completely right. Annihilation is Melee only. I still don't like Obliterate personally (I don't even like playing Frost) but the past few pages have drilled into my head that Obliterate really is better on single target.
Killing Machine *is* bad now for tanking, but looks potentially very viable in 3.0.8. Mostly I just hope that VoTW-ScS remains viable so that I don't have to think about Frost pigeon-holing.
To be honest, as long as your threat is fine, the amount of RP you have is irrelevant.
If you're finding that DPS is holding back because your threat is low, I'd seek out other alternatives.
Trying out DK specs is part of the class, you should probably try it out anyway, at least in 5-mans. I'm really excited about the upcoming talent changes but I personally can't stand tanking as frost, I tried it for 2 days or so while I was a fresh 80. I just really hated the mechanics of it.
Depending on the changes that end up being final, I'm definitely going to try blood and perhaps frost again but only in 5-mans unless I get really comfortable with it.
I assume you haven't tried 2 or 3 drake 10-man Sarth yet? I'm more or less wondering how other DK's are fairing with these encounters, like did their guilds find them better on adds find that they were best on Sarth or the Drakes with another class/less geared DK on adds? Did they have a different spec that they found helped with survivability or gemming differently for more/less mitigation/avoidance/stam?
I do find that I'm usually the last one to die, thanks to my healer but is there any other min/maxing that anyone's found at this point since we've been playing our class for a few months now?
I'm tanking sartharion as unholy with all the cooldowns to avoid the breath dmg there is no better choice than a DK. IBF>AMS>AMZ>BS+lich I can pretty much avois 5-6 breaths when drake 3 is down. Thats a huge advantage.
so with the news that the blacksmithing weapons are now gone...what the hell do I do with these mats. I could make the destroyer, but I have the axe from h HoL (after 15 freaking tries >_<') and am just curious if I want to loose the agi/haste for the hit and a little more str and stam...I know getting our hit cap helps us out, but since we are still getting other def items in the coming patch I could regem some of my gear. So I guess what I'm asking you more exp guys is do you think it would just be easier to make the destroyer since when it boils down to it stam is stam or is the axe a decent tanking weapon?
The Destroyer is better if you're not hit capped, but the axe is good enough. Regemming for similar amounts of hit when there's a 2H available would be subpar in my opinion.
However of course Bladed applies to everything and not just my abilities and spells.
Exactly. Impurity doesn't buff Obliterate, it doesn't buff Rune Strike, it doesn't buff Blood Strike... It does buff diseases, and does buff Howling Blast/Icy touch... but only marginally more than Bladed Armor. Considering for frost DKs, Obliterate and Rune Strike are their most important threat-skills.
And while Pyros is normally right, when he said "KM isn't very good for tanks"... remember that ONLY applies to the current live version. The PPM KM is amazing for tanks, since it, like Bladed Armor, benefits us even more than it benefits the DPSers. By having a lower crit rating, anything that works as KM does is a huge benefit to us.
alright on that note, what's are hit cap? I thought it was 9% but I've been seeing 8% floating around the past couple of pages and can't find where it changed
alright on that note, what's are hit cap? I thought it was 9% but I've been seeing 8% floating around the past couple of pages and can't find where it changed
That belongs to the Simple question and answer, and actually have been asked there, and it's 8%. It used to be 9% prewotlk which is why it was assumed it stood that way, but it went down to 8%, easily testable. Melee hit cap that is.
Exactly. Impurity doesn't buff Obliterate, it doesn't buff Rune Strike, it doesn't buff Blood Strike... It does buff diseases, and does buff Howling Blast/Icy touch... but only marginally more than Bladed Armor. Considering for frost DKs, Obliterate and Rune Strike are their most important threat-skills.
And while Pyros is normally right, when he said "KM isn't very good for tanks"... remember that ONLY applies to the current live version. The PPM KM is amazing for tanks, since it, like Bladed Armor, benefits us even more than it benefits the DPSers. By having a lower crit rating, anything that works as KM does is a huge benefit to us.
Yep, with a slow 2H tanking weapon, the new KM treats us like we had a 60% crit rate before... which is probably close to 45% higher crit % than we actually have. A Frost 2H DPS might have only gained a few % crit on this ability since they were already likely 40-45+ crit % with raid buffs compared to a tank's 15-20%.
Between finally being able to equip and use Journey's End and spec into my favorite DPS tree on my Hunter, and the Frost 2H tanking awesomeness that's coming in 3.08... I am very excited for the patch.
01/09/09, 6:10 PM
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