Does anyone know if any Stat Weights have been posted for tanking. I looked over a large part of this thread and I haven't found any, but I want to say I have seen them posted somewhere on EJ. All I am looking for is some stat weights for dodge, parry, def, etc... and what the values per stat are. My gear is becoming much better and I wanted to adjust for more avoidance, I just want to do correctly.
I realize I could have put 5 points into Dark Conviction and picked up a little more threat, but 10% Rune Tap I feel has saved my ass (and my raid) numerous times, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to make it a 20% heal. Besides... isn't a 20% Heal on a 35k Health Pool something like 4.5k threat for one rune?
From what I have seen, Rune Tap provides no threat whatsoever. DK Threat Values
Does anyone know if any Stat Weights have been posted for tanking. I looked over a large part of this thread and I haven't found any, but I want to say I have seen them posted somewhere on EJ. All I am looking for is some stat weights for dodge, parry, def, etc... and what the values per stat are. My gear is becoming much better and I wanted to adjust for more avoidance, I just want to do correctly.
I am leaning towards blood spec, probably w/morbidity as blood should be by far the best effective health spec, and vampiric blood should be easily the best of the cooldowns due to being 30 seconds where you basically can't die if any heals are incoming. Pickup gargoyle runeforge, regem to stam, stam to bracers, swap armor trinket for stam, go from like 38000 fulled buffed to 44k+.
If I couldn't go with a spec with as bad aoe as blood, I would probably go frost, no cooldown HB, and new KM is very sexy, and frost should easily have the best single target and aoe threat of the specs.
From what I have seen, Rune Tap provides no threat whatsoever. DK Threat Values
Hmm I wonder if that's actually true, last time I rune tapped on sartharion I aggroed all the whelps and they sticked to me for a while(crit runetap for ~8k ish). Might have been a coincidence since they often randomly go for someone when they exit portal, but they stayed on me for a while, when there's obviously a lot of healing going around. Guess I'll test it later to make sure.
That is a good link but I am not sure that all of those numbers apply to a Death Knight properly. A few of them seem to be more toward warriors/pallies. Isn't the general rule Dodge > Parry because of insta-gibs? This post has Parry > Dodge.
I am leaning towards blood spec, probably w/morbidity as blood should be by far the best effective health spec, and vampiric blood should be easily the best of the cooldowns due to being 30 seconds where you basically can't die if any heals are incoming. Pickup gargoyle runeforge, regem to stam, stam to bracers, swap armor trinket for stam, go from like 38000 fulled buffed to 44k+.
If I couldn't go with a spec with as bad aoe as blood, I would probably go frost, no cooldown HB, and new KM is very sexy, and frost should easily have the best single target and aoe threat of the specs.
That is a good link but I am not sure that all of those numbers apply to a Death Knight properly. A few of them seem to be more toward warriors/pallies. Isn't the general rule Dodge > Parry because of insta-gibs? This post has Parry > Dodge.
Parry hasting is what happens when the boss parries your attacks. That is where you might get insta-gibbed on certain bosses.
Point-for-point, before diminishing returns, Dodge is better than Parry (for Wars/Pallies as well), as shown in the 80 combat ratings table in that post. When you factor in DR as a DK, dodge gets even better because you will naturally have a high parry rating. Do not discount the benefits of pure +defense though, because the DR is spread out among more stats (dodge, parry and miss).
Originally Posted by Pyros
Hmm I wonder if that's actually true, last time I rune tapped on sartharion I aggroed all the whelps and they sticked to me for a while(crit runetap for ~8k ish). Might have been a coincidence since they often randomly go for someone when they exit portal, but they stayed on me for a while, when there's obviously a lot of healing going around. Guess I'll test it later to make sure.
I have not personally tested it. Threat mechanics for some things are kind of strange (for instance, trinket procs can give you aggro [only on mobs that have not been tapped, nor has someone been healed]). Also, the normal rotation for Unholy would have RP dump with Unholy blight, which might have kept the whelps on you (although I imagine you would have noticed that).
That is a good link but I am not sure that all of those numbers apply to a Death Knight properly. A few of them seem to be more toward warriors/pallies. Isn't the general rule Dodge > Parry because of insta-gibs? This post has Parry > Dodge.
Dodge > Parry because of parry's miserable rating conversion and diminishing returns. Insta-gibs are subject to a large amount of hyperbole. Sure it's not good to cause a boss to parry, but there aren't a lot of cases in current raid content where it will insta-gib a geared tank with decent healers.
I'd love to hear what Blizzard has against parry, one day.
By more work you mean dropping two mitigation talents for two threat talents? I wouldn't think that more appropriate. I am not sure why I put one point in merciless combat over glacier rot but there is no way I would get crit talents over spell deflection. Frost aura is personal taste, but I would realistically rather have 5 resist on the raid sometimes than a point in glacier rot and merciless combat. If the spec the way I did it was too low threat I just wouldn't do it at all (I probably wouldn't anyways as I would probably deep blood or deep frost)
On the subject of instant gibs from parry I got gibbed the other day on phase one Thaddius, got sent flying through the air, when I landed the dps was attacking from the front and I got hit 5 times for 9k in one second. Also on 10 man sarth 3drakes, I got parried twice when he was buffed with +50%dmg/attack speed and got killed in 2 seconds from full. In both cases however I also got a very unlucky string of me not avoiding anything.
Point-for-point, before diminishing returns, Dodge is better than Parry (for Wars/Pallies as well), as shown in the 80 combat ratings table in that post.
The chart has Parry being higher than Dodge.
Parry 49.18
Dodge 39.35
Unless I am looking at the wrong chart this seems to be the way they have it listed. The only area where I see Dodge > Parry is at level 60.
By more work you mean dropping two mitigation talents for two threat talents? I wouldn't think that more appropriate. I am not sure why I put one point in merciless combat over glacier rot but there is no way I would get crit talents over spell deflection. Frost aura is personal taste, but I would realistically rather have 5 resist on the raid sometimes than a point in glacier rot and merciless combat. If the spec the way I did it was too low threat I just wouldn't do it at all (I probably wouldn't anyways as I would probably deep blood or deep frost)
On the subject of instant gibs from parry I got gibbed the other day on phase one Thaddius, got sent flying through the air, when I landed the dps was attacking from the front and I got hit 5 times for 9k in one second. Also on 10 man sarth 3drakes, I got parried twice when he was buffed with +50%dmg/attack speed and got killed in 2 seconds from full. In both cases however I also got a very unlucky string of me not avoiding anything.
My first change of course was glacier rot as its part of what makes HB so effective.
Spell deflection is direct spell damage only, auras and dots are not affected atm.
Spell Deflection is (was?) broken - and crit is threat.
I haven't noticed any TPS drops, but I'll likely notice an increase when the KM ppm change goes live. The effective health boost is quite nice. The only reason I considered doing this is because I recently picked up my Repelling Charge and a couple other ilvl213 items that have allowed me to play with my gems a bit more and retain 540+ and ~60% Avoidance unbuffed.
I realize I could have put 5 points into Dark Conviction and picked up a little more threat, but 10% Rune Tap I feel has saved my ass (and my raid) numerous times, so I couldn't pass up the opportunity to make it a 20% heal. Besides... isn't a 20% Heal on a 35k Health Pool something like 4.5k threat for one rune?
The Frost/VoTW build is pretty enticing to me as well... would be great having 30k unbuffed HP for the price of 2% dodge. Are you sure your threat hasn't taken a hit? I've been fairing much better since getting hit/exp capped, but some Frostfire mage pulled aggro on Sapphiron yesterday (Right after a Frost Bomb? Seriously? L2Invis...) so I really don't want to give up any threat production to do it.
On Rune Tap, assuming 20% heal on 35k health, or a heal for 7000... threat is cut in half for healing, for 3500, and then multiplied by 2.07... for Frost Presence... so it's 7k threat... pretty good, except for the fact that you don't get any threat for overheal... so it's all about whether or not you can time it well enough for it to be used to it's full capacity.
edit: Noticed the post about no threat from Rune Tap. We should probably re-test some of that, since those threat values are from October, and thus probably from Beta. I've seen and used that TankSpot post, but with the understanding that they may be off for that reason. It makes little to no sense that Rune Tap would be the (one of the) only heal(s) in the game that doesn't cause threat.
My first change of course was glacier rot as its part of what makes HB so effective.
Spell deflection is direct spell damage only, auras and dots are not affected atm.
Spell Deflection is (was?) broken - and crit is threat.
Only thing broken with spell deflection is that is overrides AMS/IBF/Boneshield when it procs, and it procs on breaths so, I am not sure why it says direct damage when clearly that is an aoe. It isn't something you want in a blood/unholy hybrid drake tanking spec at the moment, but next patch IBF is only gonna be like 35% anyways and boneshield even less. Sure it isn't predictable mitigation but it is still mitigation.
Tested the VotTW build today on the boss dummy at the DK trainers. Saw my dps drop from 1150-1200 to 950-1050 (aka a significant tps loss) with the rotation IT-OB-OB-BS rotation. Am i doing something wrong or does everyone with the VotTW build experience this?
The Frost/VoTW build is pretty enticing to me as well... would be great having 30k unbuffed HP for the price of 2% dodge. Are you sure your threat hasn't taken a hit? I've been fairing much better since getting hit/exp capped, but some Frostfire mage pulled aggro on Sapphiron yesterday (Right after a Frost Bomb? Seriously? L2Invis...) so I really don't want to give up any threat production to do it.
On Rune Tap, assuming 20% heal on 35k health, or a heal for 7000... threat is cut in half for healing, for 3500, and then multiplied by 2.07... for Frost Presence... so it's 7k threat... pretty good, except for the fact that you don't get any threat for overheal... so it's all about whether or not you can time it well enough for it to be used to it's full capacity.
edit: Noticed the post about no threat from Rune Tap. We should probably re-test some of that, since those threat values are from October, and thus probably from Beta. I've seen and used that TankSpot post, but with the understanding that they may be off for that reason. It makes little to no sense that Rune Tap would be the (one of the) only heal(s) in the game that doesn't cause threat.
If I have experienced a threat drop, it wasn't much. I've mainly been judging my threat against the Warrior tanks in my guild and I have always been able to pull off of them with little to no effort. Perhaps it is due to the fact that we are only stepping into 25 man Nax now and we aren't entirely geared.
I did change from ITT to KM in the same talent swap.
I had mentioned earlier that I was looking for a basic stat weight comparison for gear when tanking so I thought I would post something that I found. Here is the source:
Hmm I wonder if that's actually true, last time I rune tapped on sartharion I aggroed all the whelps and they sticked to me for a while(crit runetap for ~8k ish). Might have been a coincidence since they often randomly go for someone when they exit portal, but they stayed on me for a while, when there's obviously a lot of healing going around. Guess I'll test it later to make sure.
HB going back to a cd angers me, it would have been a great boost for frost aoe tanking. All that would have had to be done is move it further down the frost tree so dw specs couldnt pick it up. Maybe swap it for Acclimation since that talent isn't really usefull anyway. I really do not feel comfortable tanking as unholy, but I am afraid I may have to go unholy unless frost gets a little more aoe improvements.
Tested the VotTW build today on the boss dummy at the DK trainers. Saw my dps drop from 1150-1200 to 950-1050 (aka a significant tps loss) with the rotation IT-OB-OB-BS rotation. Am i doing something wrong or does everyone with the VotTW build experience this?
01/15/09, 11:58 AM
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