That's roughly what I think, also. Imp Rune Tap is really nice for our HP pool and never once thought of taken the 2%stam/2%str in the Unholy tree. I'm going to try that build on Sunday, I think, with the exception of moving a point out of Hysteria and placing it in Imp Rune Tap...maybe not. We'll see.

Oblit/IBF/Frost Strike are normally the way to go. Or Oblit/RS/FS.

Minors are Pest/Horn/Blood Tap.

I only took Hysteria because I run 10mans and its the same reason I took blood aura. I'll try my build out next 10man naxx if you have promising results, I probably won't have good results because I don't have the starter sigil anymore.

Yeah, the only large downfall is we'd stop using our IT sigil which if people already gemmed around it...it won't work very well. Good thing I haven't gemmed around it, yet.

(I still have the starting area sigil, I'll use it.)

Spec 4 (Diseaseless):
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

Last two points go towards max Blood Gorge or 5/5 Necrosis + 1/1 SoD.

I'll be using the latter style. Sadly, there's no room for Imp Rune Tap. *sigh* But, this should produce the most threat and I just started using OB-OB-HS-HS on mobs and it's working quite well.

Hysteria is outstanding for an "Oh Shit!" TPS cooldown when using a diseaseless rotation or just to shave seconds off of a fight. As far as sigils are concerned, i doubt the spec will "fail" for you without the starter one. Sigil of Awareness will work just fine.

I would imagine that getting SoD is worth more then 5/5 blood gorged. I'm curious as to if is it safe to test out rotations and/or talent tree builds on target dummies? The SoD talent would increase scaling and be a much better talent in a raid then solo which would only mean you can't successfully test it on a dummy, right?

Edit 1 - I was just messing around on the target dummy and I was doing roughly 800DPS with the rotation and spec when I do ~1050 with my other rotation and spec. I had 12 out of 101 heart strikes parried and 5 out of 26 obliterates parried as well.
Edit 2 - I went and did it again and this time I ended up with roughly 800DPS again. I had 11 out of 144 heart strikes parried and I had 3 out of 35 obliterates parried.

I am so far not liking this and mainly because if you do get dodged/parried while getting rid of your death runes and when your blood runes come back up then it ruins your rotation by using the blood runes as a priority, then you end up waiting for FU runes to come up and you may end up having only U runes up on time.

Edit 3 - I don't know if this is intended but I'm finding that sometimes on a DS or OB my F rune will become a D rune but my U won't? I also see that either both U runes will go up and then both F runes which almost ruins my rotation... then again I don't know how this rotation should work so maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Why wouldn't you use UA glyph? I know with the glyph I hit armor cap, but I think without it I don't, so makes it useful. Also IT glyph is good, 10rp every 10secs, usually more than I'd get out of FS(because rune strikes eat a lot of RP).

bloodyxmary
While there is no hard cap on avoidance Blizzard implemented diminishing returns on it so that you cannot get to 100% anymore. Talented and base avoidance are not diminished. Theres a post here that you could look at.

What sigil are people using for blood tanking Sigil of Haunted Dreams vs Sigil of the Dark Rider?
I have a feeling I'm gonna regret destroying dark rider and pray I find a really nice GM.Seems like even though it's only 90 dmg would be huge when HSing 6-8 times per full rotation.

The sigil of haunted dreams seems like a joke sigil, much better then before I suppose but still a joke. I don't know the duration but you can restore items as long as it hasn't been to long. I also say for TPS the Dark Rider is the best blood sigil unless you go with a IT>PS>OB>HS>HS//OB>OB>HS>HS// rotation, then the sigil of awareness would be better.

Honestly, I forgot all about UA. That's why it wasn't added. I would replace RS with UA. As Frost, you eat a lot of RP so, IBF being free is pro. Saving 8 RP/FS makes that insanely valuable (imo), too.

It's entirely too early to go test rotations on dummies, I'll be working on some TPS herioc runs tomorrow and update ya'll then.

These and other such questions need to be referred to the FAQ. HONESTLY PEOPLE>>>>>>> READ before POSTING

More than that, it's an *insane* DPS buff for your top physical DPSer. So, if you don't *need* it for threat, it's probably best used on your best Fury Warrior or Rogue (maybe Hunter). If you time it with Heroism it's incredible.

I suspect for most of us, that's a bigger benefit to the raid than "wasting" it on ourselves for threat.

Hysteria is a waste on a Rogue. At the very least, 20-30% of their damage comes from poisons, which I believe is considered nature damage. Stick with warriors, as they are probably the only class that gets the full benefit of Hysteria. Hunters do mostly physical damage, but Hysteria does nothing for their pet. I understand why Blizzard doesn't want Hysteria being a ridiculous caster buff, but it is irritating that its effectiveness is reduced on practically every class.

Feral Druids get full benefit from Hysteria as well, and it's particularly potent if you can co-ordinate to time it with Berserk and other such cooldowns. It is probably much harder to find a Feral Druid doing full time dps than a Warrior, but it's still a good thing to keep in mind. If there is no Warrior dps to give Hysteria to, you're probably better off giving Hysteria to a Feral Druid as long as he's doing at least 70% or more of the Hunters and Rogues dps.

Long time reader, first time poster.

I am currently trying WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

I like being able to have Will of the Necropolis, Blood Gorged, Lichborne and Annihilation all at the same time.
So far, it seems to be holding good threat in Heroics.

I am using some crappy defense gear, I was DPS but have been asked to switch over to tanking for my guild.

Hopefully once I get a little better geared, the spec will do even better.

While it's not exactly an answer to your question, thought I'd mention for anyone going frost that I downloaded Proculas and spent two hours whacking the boss training dummy with a [Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver] last night and ended up with an interesting result.

Spec: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

After an hour of just auto-attacking KM was showing 4.66 PPM. A bit low for the stated 5 PPM that 5 points in it should be granting, but I assume I was losing procs here and there due to dodges/misses on the dummy.

I spent the next hour auto-attacking but keeping IIT up and saw my KM proc rate jump to 6.40 PPM by the end of the hour.

While it's only a preliminary guess and could use a few more tests (attacking with other abilities, using a weapon that doesn't already have haste, a few more hours of hits), I'd say that the discrepancy between the two rates after an hour shows that KM will proc substantially more with haste effects, even with it's switch to a PPM system. Which, in turn, would mean that haste rating can be translated into some sort of crit rating bonus for those with KM.

I believe that's the case for all PPM systems, since PPM is based on the weapon's base speed, and not modified by haste effects. In that sense, I suppose haste has become a slightly more valuable stat for DK's that pick up KM, both for tanking and for DPS, but I guess we'll have to run some numbers to see exactly how it stacks up to other stats in terms of effectiveness.

Spec [Blood/Unholy]: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

Rotation 1 on dummy (negating Necrosis, of course.): OB-OB-HS-HS//HS-HS-HS-HS-OB
This was set on a priority system, where if my blood runes were coming back up, I'd burn whatever runes I had left on OB.

DPS Net: ~900dps.

Rotation 2: OB-OB-HS-HS//OB-OB-OB

DPS Net - ~965 dps.

Rotation 3: IT-PS-HS-HS-OB//repeat

DPS Net - ~1.1k DPS.

What I'm wondering now is if Epidemic would be worth the points now even though the Blood thread is finding a diseaseless rotation net more for them?

**EDIT**

Rotation 1 and 2 are low, I was using the IT Sigil. (I'm dumb.) I'll re-do them with appropriate sigils after a few dailies.

**EDIT2**

This is without OB Glyph.

So we do or do not have a near consensus on blood diseaseless rotations being the ideal(or at the least very close to equal) method for TPS compared to using PS and IT?

Also, for raids, who are people relying on to provide the extra attack speed reduction that the blood tank spec is not getting by not having IIT?

I think for overall threat that the IT/PS rotations will be better because of the disease DoTs and the extra damage that most attacks gain based on the number of diseases. I have a enh shaman and a DW DK that raid with my guild so I always have the 20% haste. I would imagine guilds don't (and shouldn't) rely on there tank for the haste buff.

You can get the extra attack speed redux from a dw dk, unholy tank dk, or warrior.

Blood DK's are full out physical damage except death coil, Blood tanks are full physical damage because you probably won't have the rp to dc. This assumes diseaseless rotation.

For the people "claiming" they are pulling 6-7tps with a blood tank spec I'd need to see a wws. I tried it out yesterday on Sarth 3D and Naxx and while it did a good job MT'ing Sarth(I'd put it on par with unholy) the threat was absolutely terrible on everything, as was the dps. I pull near 2k tanking, without counting the ghoul while unholy. Blood barely tops prot tanks, somewhere around 1300dps.

Even with the Rune Strike change our class is still a dps = tps tank. Between the two, unholy blows blood out of the water. Haven't tried frost yet so I'll leave it out and this was with the heart strike/Vamp/ Rune Strike glyphs(being a BE means I can ibf for 5rp whenever I want anyway). I did diseaseless and with diseases and it made little difference. I'll try Frost tonight in 10 man naxx to get people undying.

I meant a blood build with 5 points in frost instead of 8 for the full attack speed debuff on the target. If no one else is providing it, that's a not insignificant amount of extra damage incoming.

I've yet to play with a DW DK, and the other DKs tend to be normal 2h dps specs, and warriors have to lose dps to put down thunderclap.