That is correct, the IT rotations use unholy presence and thus aren't viable for tanking.
They do 6x IT, 4x FS in a 10 seconds cycle.

Link the spec. My telepathy is awfully weak today. :p

And what did you tank? The drakes or Sarth?

Any rotation that pushes a 6 GCD rotation while in Frost Presence is going to cause issues, as did HSx6 did for me with near-to-no lag.

I don't really see any wasted points. Here are the talents I take in my Frost/VoTW:

5/5 Blade Barrier
5/5 Bladed Armor
3/3 Subversion (buffs three out of the four attacks one does in a Frost Rotation)
2/2 2h Specialization (buffs three out of the four attacks one does in a Frost Rotation, plus autoattacks and Frost Strikes)
5/5 Dark Conviction (buffs everything one does in a Frost Rotation, aside from KM-proc Frost Strikes)
3/3 VoTW (6% sta AND 6% str)

And I need to give up:

Tundra Stalker
2pts. in Anticipation

Since, by my testing, with my gear, I don't lose any TPS output (and, in fact, gain some TPS, at least through informal observation), the Tundra Stalker loss is pretty much a wash, and it comes down to a tradeoff between 2% avoidance and 6% EH. Given our normal levels of high-60%s avoidance, it becomes a statistical wash (6% EH vs. 6% less damage taken) at this gear level... neither is 'better'. In T8, chances are the avoidance will be 'better'... unless we're seeing more fights that need very high health pools. The fact is, there is so much synergy between Frost and Early Blood that it just makes sense... especially if you have/use [Sigil of Awareness] and [Glyph of Obliterate].

What kind of rotation and glyphs are you using for this build, it seems interesting and i may end up giving it a try. Also, is the threat comparable to a deep blood build? That's what I'm trying out right now and it seems to be pretty nice, although i have yet to be in anything outside of a 5 man thus far. I've also had 0 frost experience, so giving something else a try would be interesting.

Post 2165 has the details including this build.

Glyphs IT and Oblit.
I'm trying it with UA Glyph but depending on your situation and armour buffs, that might not be as useful for you.

In regards to regular tanking (i.e. not Sarth 3d) How warranted is 3/3 in Spell Deflection?

Specifically, I am looking at a Frost tanking spec that trades Tundra Stalker and 2% Dodge for 1 expertise, 6% Str, Sta, and Spell Deflection. While my choices may be questionable, the heart of the discussion I'm interested in is: "what is the return of investment for Spell Deflection?"

Thank you, i could not find where i saw that post before explaining that build. Although, maybe i'm just a nub here, but this "(IT-[BS/Pest]-OB-OB)" rotation seems pretty incomplete to me. You aren't using PS at all? Why would i PEST on a single target? Unless that rotation is for AOE packs.

To me Icy Touch-Blood Strike-OB-OB seems a little "too" easy. I assume i would be dumping RP on Rune Strike, unless i was only able to DC as well correct?

Would it be worth dropping IT Glyph for RS? Or should i use that over UA glyph? Because to me, having a free IBF when you need it is pretty pro.

Just a few more questions is all, thanks in advance. I'm still trying to learn about Frost.

When I said [BS/Pest], I was referring to the fact that you would BS on a single target or Pest on a pack. In that case, you would also possibly replace an OB with a HB. This has been the "top" frost DPS rotation for a while, and while people are claiming good things with IT spam, it requires Unholy presence, and is thus useless for tanks. Plague Strike and Blood Plague combine for barely over 1000 damage on average... while my Obliterate averages well over 2000 due to its 50% crit rate. And using 4 instead of 5 GCDs makes it easier to Frost Strike to dump RP (especially on slow-hitting bosses where you can't Rune Strike much) when it's available.

My glyphs are Obliterate, Icy Touch, and Rune Strike. Sure, I could throw a defensive one in there, but have never felt unable to manage my RP in a way that lets me IBF whenever I need to. The IBF glyph is one that makes the game easier but doesn't make you perform better in any significant way. If I wanted a defensive one, I'd probably go with UA, even though it's all physical mitigation and thus not that universally useful.

Remember, most of this is applicable to both Deep Frost and Frost/VoTW... it's just a matter of EH vs. Avoidance which one you choose.

I am totally down for this new spec and am gonna give it a try tonight. Here is my concern. In this age of pull it all and AE will a Pest-HB be enough to hold em? Do you ever use DnD? If so what does that do to your rotation? i usually have to go into a strange hybrib/schizoid ping pong rotation till it all smooths out when i open with that.

edit for crazy enter key

That's not the trade however. You're trading epidemic, 2/3 morbidity, 2%dodge(or 2% 2Hspec for full morbid) and 10% dmg. Now for single target, epidemic is useless, and so is morbidity. However, again my point wasn't to say, votw sucks or anything, but if you're gonna make a boss specific build, you might as well make a full boss build(and currently the only boss requiring it is sarth3d). If you do an everyday build, then you want the random stuff over 6%stamina and slightly higher single target threat.

Here is a patchwerk WWS from tonight's 25 man. WWS Loading...

Using this spec for blood - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=112016050401
(didn't mean to grab scent of blood...lol was a fast respec at the last minute)

It definitely has it's uses but I feel so gimped, particularly on AOE.
Major thing to me is simply all of the current content is very AOE heavy.

I was paired with a Tankadin and a Warrior. As far as TPS was concerned I can use blood spec like a scalpel and could keep a single percent below whoever was MT at the moment.
Vampiric Blood was useful but currently, IMO, never was it necessary to hit it. Fights like Lotheb(near the end), Patchwerk HS soaking, Grand widow(achievement) and it simply makes those fights easier but never a necessity.

The warriors loved Hysteria, Rune Tap(glyphed) and Mark of Blood was nice on Lotheb for my group,

But IMHO all of the utility healing talents that are a part of the Blood spec are really kind of gimmicky and those points can be used elsewhere.

I started out frost and I think I'm going to end up frost -

Hi fellows,

I'm the dk officer of my current guild but i'm a dd. We have two dk tanks at the moment. They generate few agro and the raid damage dealers complain about that. (I have no problem due to Subversion.)

The first one is full t7 25 and hit mobsters with Unevitable defeat. He has speced Blood since the 3.0.8. I've watched with care his WWS and the report do not show enough Rune strikes imho. Is it the problem ? I know that tanks like warrior have to maximise the use of Heroic strike compared to their autoshot. Is'it straight the same for Dk ?

Second one is full t7 10 with the same weapon that the frst one. (It seems to be the best weapon for a dk tanker, maybe i'm wrong on this). She stay Ice for the 3.0.8. Her WWS show the same problem (maybe it's not a problem and i'm pretty wrong about all that stuff).

Considering i'm not a specialist of dk tanking and that the lone thing i've noticied on the WWS is the insufficient use
of runing Strike, here's my question :

Is there any other problems wich can bring problems in agro genreation or the blame should be led only on Runic strike ?


(Sry for my crap crap english)

Can you link the WWS here?
Compare his Runic Power gained to that spent, he may be focusing on using his Runic Power for Deathcoil (Depending on spec) and leaving Rune Strike lit for long periods.

I have RS macrod to my Icy Touch key and my Obliterate key as well as having the button available to press by itself. I find that macroing it to everything kind of sucks when you don't have the RP needed to activate survival cooldowns.

Here's the WWS of our yesterday's wipe evening

29% swing, 1% Runic Strike.

Hi all, after 3.0.8 i changed to blood and i am happy with results. I got corpse explosion to AoE threat in trash and worked fine.

My armory -> The World of Warcraft Armory

cya.

You might ask them to try a run with Rune Strike macro'd to all of their usual rotation abilities. I found that once I created some Macros for that purpose that my threat was constantly higher and easier to maintain. I know some people don't like to macro it in with their strikes for better control of their RP, but as long as you have Sanctuary (as your DK did), RP is no issue.

Something strange is that they're getting off roughly half as many Plague Strikes as they are Icy Touches, and about 2/3 the number of Blood Plague ticks as Frost Fever. More Blood Plague uptime would probably help with threat.

Not trying to be a dick but Rune Strike only activates when you parry or dodge an incoming attack.

falp....why are you gemming for expertise? you're WAAAAAAY over you're cap. gem for sta bro, and dont gem for hit/expertise, that's really dumb. you have full valorous, you should know better. i wish i had some of you're gear, it makes me cry to see the poor gem choices you have.


the expertise cap is 26....you're at 46, thats pointless. and you should NEVER have to gem for hit rating, you should be able to obtain that through gear itself.

also, the hit cap is 265, so you're also over you're cap there, as well.



you should be geming and enchanting more for mitigation and stamina. get the 2% threat/10 parry enchant for the gloves. and remove the expertise gems, with a blood spec, you should be able to achieve the expertise cap with very minimal effort, as it has a lot of talents that will give you expertise.

im glad you are not on my server, i'd have a field day clowning on you, lol.

For clarification, the soft cap is 26. The hard cap is not until around 57. Expertise may not be the best stat choice over 26, but it certainly isn't useless.

Now i've been wondering for a long time if it would be possible to make a macro a howling blast macro that casts Deathchill if Killing Machine aint active and doesnt if Killing Machine is active or do i have to do it manually?.

If this has alrdy been covered plz redirect me to the thread/post since i havent been able to find it

im aware of what the soft cap and hard caps are. however, its still pointless to gem for expertise, as its been proven to be much better to gem for stamina & mitigation (survivability).

im pretty sure you're healers would greater appreciate you staying up long enough to keep you alive, since you should be able to generate plenty of enough threat with the soft cap.


i see you gem for expertise as well, no wonder you try and defend him, lol. geming for expertise is bad, you should gem for mitigation and sta stats. with the correct rotation, you should be fine on you're threat generation. but, with you're gear, you probably aren't doing 25 man content anyhow.

Since 3.0.8, Deathchill won't be consumed if KM is active. You can make a Deathchill + HB macro but if you hit it when KM is active, the Deathchill will be consumed on your next IT/HB/FS.

Unless I'm mistaken, conditional macros that checked for auras were never possible, and definitely not since all conditional macro functions were eliminated in 2.0.