Unholy DPS Discussion - Page 12

faight · 11/26/08, 11:17 PM

As far as people ressing guildmates with Raise Dead: I have yet to be on the receiving end of this, but does the individual get an option to decline the Raise Dead? I remember reading something before about the person you raise having the option to accept and control themselves versus just having the pet come back.

If it's a case where they can decline and you get a normal pet, maybe instituting a "Don't accept Raise Dead" policy for raids is called for.

Question might belong in the question thread, but since I see discussion about it here I figured I'd raise it.

Bungie · 11/27/08, 1:55 AM

I used a 5/5 necrosis specc on our 4/5 wing clear of naxx last night, WWS

With necrosis being about 3% of my overall damage.

I am encountering alot of errors with the ghoul registering on WWS when it's up and doing damage and not showing, does anyone know why this is happening and if there's a way to fix it, or if it's just on the WWS client it's self that is causing errors.

Savetheday · 11/27/08, 2:05 AM

Originally Posted by faight

As far as people ressing guildmates with Raise Dead: I have yet to be on the receiving end of this, but does the individual get an option to decline the Raise Dead? I remember reading something before about the person you raise having the option to accept and control themselves versus just having the pet come back.

If it's a case where they can decline and you get a normal pet, maybe instituting a "Don't accept Raise Dead" policy for raids is called for.

Question might belong in the question thread, but since I see discussion about it here I figured I'd raise it.

I do not understand the reason why you'd want someone to decline? I'd like to think the average person I'm raiding with is smarter then an AI that stands in fire and/or any other aoe. I "ghouled" 3 people last week on our complete fail kel'thuzad kill.(I guess maybe they're not smarter then my ghoul) Each one was hitting for around 2k. Having 4 ghouls attacking KT pretty much sold me on NotD.

Xyrm, your DPS has improved so much this week. How much do you think the SS glyph, more comfortable rotations, and upgrades have to do with it?

Also back to the trinket discussion. Is Extract of Necromatic power that good? Modeling some of these trinkets is damn near impossible due to not knowing PPM/internal cool downs. What trinkets are everyone going for atm?

Melchior · 11/27/08, 3:47 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

Yes, it is that powerful and I'm a proud owner of it

. A must have for Frost and especially Unholy.

Well, I just got mine tonight and it certainly is everything I expected. Fantastic piece for this build, couldn't be happier.

I'm also going to echo the sentiments of Night of the Dead - I tried it out tonight in our brief 25 man raid, which was OS and two wings of Naxx plus Razuvious. It was so much easier to keep my ghoul in the fight, I will probably keep it in my spec over Virulence from here on out.

thory · 11/27/08, 5:24 AM

Thought I'd drop my WWS from Patchwerk in a full Naxx 25 clear last night - WWS. I have 764k damage on the WWS, but that missed 121k from my ghoul - worked out at around 4.4k DPS on my Recount. Apologies for not logging off in DPS gear - I have 3pc T7, some other drops from Naxx 10/25 and the majority of the better Heroic drops. I'll remember to log off in it tonight.

Few things to state:

- I have considerably more hit than I need (~350), although this is largely due to using the hit trinket from Heroic Nexus. As you can see, I had no misses on Patchwerk. With time/gear, you should be easily able to drop Virulence and possibly get away from needing to gem for hit.
- Continuing the Necrosis/NotD theme, I went with 5/5 and it accounted for 3% of my DPS. I'll agree that this isn't amazing for a 5 point talent point investment, but then, there aren't any other significant DPS increasing alternatives. You could go 4/5 Necrosis and go 2/2 NotD - 100% pet uptime on Patchwerk (obviously, very easy) net me 121k damage, whereas 5/5 Necrosis gave 21k. I've not tried NotD yet - I went 5/5 Necrosis and took 1/2 Unholy Command for Malygos spark convenience.

Although Savetheday's question was for Xyrm (re: SS gylph, rotations, gear), I will answer that from my experience and say it's huge. I initially ditched the SS gylph to get the Oblit one to try Blood, but the more I've raided back as Unholy with it, the more I like it. Yes, it is a little unpredictable and inconsistent sometimes, but I still believe it to be fairly significant when increasing DPS. I can only see this increase becoming bigger when you get the SS Sigil from Heigan in Naxx 25 too. It simplified my rotation no end. In terms of gear, every piece I'm getting from 25 mans is making a notable difference. I think I'm reaching the point where upgrades are making smaller differences every time, but it should be interesting once I get a 213+ ilvl weapon.

Sekke · 11/27/08, 5:28 AM

Originally Posted by Savetheday

I do not understand the reason why you'd want someone to decline? I'd like to think the average person I'm raiding with is smarter then an AI that stands in fire and/or any other aoe. I "ghouled" 3 people last week on our complete fail kel'thuzad kill.(I guess maybe they're not smarter then my ghoul) Each one was hitting for around 2k. Having 4 ghouls attacking KT pretty much sold me on NotD.

I thought the reason for this was that it had been shown that an AI controlled Ghoul out-DPSes player controlled ones, as well as the fact that the AI Ghoul is permanent whereas the player controlled one is temporary (though this may be one of the big reasons for it being less overall DPS).

Ren · 11/27/08, 5:55 AM

Here is a 5200 dps parse on 25-man Patchwerk: Wow Web Stats. I'm using the exact same gear and spec as in my armory. Glyphs were Ghoul, Scourge Strike, and Icy Touch. WWS isn't recording ghoul dps for me, but I was 2nd on Recount at the time of Patchwerk's death. Looking it over, it appears I failed pretty hard at Gargoyle uptime and the Emerald Boar use is pretty god-awful.

Just to reiterate, Night of the Dead is amazing for improving ghoul uptime. I've even specced into and am using Corpse Explosion on trash for burst damage.

Now for a couple questions: has anyone tried using Gargoyle on Loatheb or Thaddius? Does it benefit from the increased crit chance or damage multipliers? How about Unholy Blight on Thaddius, does it affect him at max melee range? I don't blame anyone for not knowing, they seem like things that shouldn't be done.

thory · 11/27/08, 6:25 AM

My WWS link has decided to die, but before it did, I did manage to check my Thaddius kill from last night and it doesn't seem like the Gargoyle benefited from the damage multiplier.

Savetheday · 11/27/08, 8:29 AM

Originally Posted by thory

Although Savetheday's question was for Xyrm (re: SS gylph, rotations, gear), I will answer that from my experience and say it's huge. I initially ditched the SS gylph to get the Oblit one to try Blood, but the more I've raided back as Unholy with it, the more I like it. Yes, it is a little unpredictable and inconsistent sometimes, but I still believe it to be fairly significant when increasing DPS. I can only see this increase becoming bigger when you get the SS Sigil from Heigan in Naxx 25 too. It simplified my rotation no end. In terms of gear, every piece I'm getting from 25 mans is making a notable difference. I think I'm reaching the point where upgrades are making smaller differences every time, but it should be interesting once I get a 213+ ilvl weapon.

It was more directed towards Xyrm for the fact his DPS had a very significant increase since his last report iirc. I was wondering what he thought made that big of a difference.

I just picked up the Axe off KT 10 man and sigil off 25 heigan. We have all of naxx left to do this week so hopefully I'll have a report by the end of the weekend. As a side-note about hit, I'm way over the hit cap. I am actually over the hit cap for spells with misery without virulence.(and I still have iron-spring jumpers chilling in my bags) I feel like our itemization is soo poor even if I do get upgrades to bring my hit down(and crit/haste up) they'll barely bring my DPS up.(reminds me of BC shadow priest)

Ren it appears that gargoyle does not get the spore buff and/or the polarity shift so no. To be fair if it did get the polarity shift that could potentially be bad(since it doesn't move.) IIRC I was getting UB ticks on thaddius, but I do not know if i was at max range. I think the only fights I noticed not getting UB ticks were sapphiron and malygos.

• Zurm · 11/27/08, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Melchior

Does the Sigil of Awareness add a flat 420 damage per SS? Looking over Xyrm's latest WWS where he's using the SS glyph, it seems like that would be kind of a ridiculous upgrade for Unholy; at 534 SS's over the course of the run, he would have gained at least over 225,000 damage. Is it really that powerful?

It's actually MORE powerful. That 420 is before multipliers such as the 13% magic vulnerability from ebon plague, the 10% damage from RoR, and many other things (including crits). My napkin modeling (which could be wrong) has put that sigil at a little under a 500 dps upgrade for my unholy spec and rotation, all things considered. It is without question the single biggest upgrade I can get at the moment, even more than [Betrayer of Humanity]. However, Heigan has decided he was better off NOT dropping it the last three kills... *shakes fist*.

Originally Posted by thory

My WWS link has decided to die, but before it did, I did manage to check my Thaddius kill from last night and it doesn't seem like the Gargoyle benefited from the damage multiplier.

That's correct. It also doesn't benefit from bloodlust/heroism or even get a chance at the crit buff from spores on loetheb... as far as I can tell. It DOES benefit from your AP at the time of summoning... so you should blow your AP cooldowns before using it, and right before they expire use gargoyle. Your gargoyle will gain the increased AP for the full duration... that's what I did on patchwerk this week and was seeing 3.4k gargoyle strikes (mirror of truth also procced at a very opportune moment).

Originally Posted by Savetheday

Xyrm, your DPS has improved so much this week. How much do you think the SS glyph, more comfortable rotations, and upgrades have to do with it?

Well some upgrades played a part, but again I didn't have two piece at the time, and I STILL don't have [Sigil of Awareness]. The rotation and glyph definitely played a large part... also more careful use of cooldowns and overall more attention payed to DPS, and less to experimentation (although in a way, you could argue the whole run was an experiment with a new rotation and glyph set).

Lanky · 11/27/08, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Zurm

It's actually MORE powerful. That 420 is before multipliers such as the 13% magic vulnerability from ebon plague, the 10% damage from RoR, and many other things (including crits). My napkin modeling (which could be wrong) has put that sigil at a little under a 500 dps upgrade for my unholy spec and rotation, all things considered. It is without question the single biggest upgrade I can get at the moment, even more than [Betrayer of Humanity]. However, Heigan has decided he was better off NOT dropping it the last three kills... *shakes fist*.

Unless it is changed, It will be the single best sigil in the game for a very long time. Unholy uses Scourge Strike constantly, and the benefits are obvious there. Frost Uses Obliterate a decent amount, again, a glyphed and sigil boosted Obliterate is nothing to laugh at. Only Blood may not want it, although nothing has been confirmed yet over the usefulness of the haste rating blood sigil.

Okoi · 11/27/08, 11:28 AM

apparently this was useless

Broseph · 11/27/08, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by Okoi

After switching to this build with 5/5necrosis, and dropping Bone Shield glyph, for Scourge Strike(now using SS, IT, and Ghoul), I've noticed at least a 300-400 DPS increase on most boss fights. Know that I have gotten one or two upgrades sense the last clear, one being the Sigil off of Heigan.

Xyrm just posted that this alone could cause up to a 500 DPS increase.

Obviously boss fights like Grobb, Heigan, etc Desecration doesn't seem to be useful at all. With the SS glyph, the time spent using PS can be up to once per minute, thus never really having desecration up at all.

Has anyone else switched out of desecration and found similar results? I've also found NotD is very useful on fights with difficult ghoul up time as he can be a good 10-20% of your dps.

You are posting like these are new ideas. Read the thread. We've come to these same conclusions many times over in the last, oh, two or three pages.

Okoi · 11/27/08, 2:17 PM

I had meant to say not the Sigil off Heigan, as that was in fact my first loot. Anyway, as far as the "ideas" I posted them to be useful, I don't see any exact quotes of what I posted. I didn't read this thread as much as I should have though, my fault.

methods · 11/27/08, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Broseph

Xyrm just posted that this alone could cause up to a 500 DPS increase.

Hm. I don't think this Sigil can account for 500 or even 300 average dps in long fights. I can see lucky crits giving a substantial boost but when considering total possible output it seems fairly simple to calculate.

In my spreadsheets its accounting for about 200dps for an unholy build (4xSS rotation not the 5xSS glyph 'guesswork' one) in raid gear.

Lets assume a perfect rotation with SS glyph procs. 55% crit for SS.

Sigil = 420dmg * 5ss /20seconds = 105 raw dps before modifiers
Sigil = 105 * 1.13 * 1.1 *1.02 = 133.125 dps before crit mod
Sigil = 133.125 * (1+(.55*1.3)) = 228.31 dps average

At that gear level the equivalent in STR for the sigil would be about 175 STR. That's a strong over-budget if you ask me. I'm only bitter because all of my 25 man Naxx's will be in 'pugs' since my guild is small and focusing on 10 mans only.

That being said, congrats to anyone winning this godly piece of gear.