Hey guys, long time reader but first post. Anyway I thought i'd just post the WWS from tonight (it's only 1 wing +saph & kt) for the number crunchers out there that are interested (as a side note everything in the armory is correct except for the helm + weapon that I got tonight).
As previously noted by many others the WWS report is pretty skewed on some fights due to it not recognizing my ghoul.
Also just wanted to confirm what others are saying about the SS glyph. It's simply amazing. I had quite a few runs with it proccing and keeping diseases up for a good 1-2 minutes straight on some fights.
Hiyas. I've been having some weird problems with my gargoyle. I don't think I've noticed anyone here talking about it but every time I summon my gargoyle it takes usually 10 seconds for the buff to appear in my frames. I've been using satrina's buff frames and use need to know to track my gargoyle uptime. So basically it starts doing damage when there is only 50 seconds left, before that it doesn't use any runic power etc.
I'd like to know also if the stat values in strategy compendium are still intact. From what I understood the unholy isn't scaling as well as other builds and using those values in wowhead it seems to give best value for blue boe cloak etc.
Hiyas. I've been having some weird problems with my gargoyle. I don't think I've noticed anyone here talking about it but every time I summon my gargoyle it takes usually 10 seconds for the buff to appear in my frames. I've been using satrina's buff frames and use need to know to track my gargoyle uptime. So basically it starts doing damage when there is only 50 seconds left, before that it doesn't use any runic power etc.
In the tooltip for summon Gargoyle, it will say persists for "10s plus 1s per 8 runic power up to 1m" so essentially it uses 50 RP to summon but then only starts to use additional RP after the original 10s are up, it not showing up in Satrina's is most likely a bug with Satrina itself not detecting Gargoyle correctly, or just Gargoyle being poorly designed into the wow interface, most likely the former over the later i would say.
I just converted back to unholy after trying blood and realizing I'm just a better unholy player. My one hold up up though is that I really really want pale horse, and I'm not sure the best thing to sacrifice. Any advice? My current build is this:
It is worth it. It's doable. I've been doing it since Zurm made me think about it. You just have to think it out. If you get KB'd etc, that's what IT/Empower Rune Weapon/Blood Tap is for. But you should already know when those are, and plan ahead for them.
I guess if your playstyle is to drive yourself nuts for an extra ~3k damage every 3 minutes (yes, that's what keeping UB up with gargoyle will get you over using DC assuming you have the RP to cast UB 3x during a gargoyle), you should go for it.
Personally, I'm a bit more lazy and would rather fire off DCs when I know I'm about to cap instead of having to do calculus to figure out if my runes are gonna be up, if I'll be in range, if something is going to happen that will stun me (Maexxna web wrap?), if spamming IT when I'm out of range is gonna destroy my rotation when I get back in range, if I'm gonna have to blow my 5min cd at an awkward time to save my gargoyle, or any other number of things.
I just converted back to unholy after trying blood and realizing I'm just a better unholy player. My one hold up up though is that I really really want pale horse, and I'm not sure the best thing to sacrifice. Any advice? My current build is this:
Saw some people talking about upping their trash dps before and using DnD.
If you have no RP to start off with try using this rotation on a trash pack.
Icy Touch -> Plague Strike -> Pestilence -> Death and Decay -> Blood Tap -> Blood Boil -> Unholy Blight
I placed DnD later due to threat reasons. But the main reason you BT -> BB is because it pushes you over 60 RP to also use you UB. Otherwise you won't have the RP to do it. Ideally on any given trash pull you either have Blood Tap up, or some banked RP, so that you can always get a UB off as soon as possible for trash clearing.
Saw some people talking about upping their trash dps before and using DnD.
If you have no RP to start off with try using this rotation on a trash pack.
Icy Touch -> Plague Strike -> Pestilence -> Death and Decay -> Blood Tap -> Blood Boil -> Unholy Blight
I placed DnD later due to threat reasons. But the main reason you BT -> BB is because it pushes you over 60 RP to also use you UB. Otherwise you won't have the RP to do it. Ideally on any given trash pull you either have Blood Tap up, or some banked RP, so that you can always get a UB off as soon as possible for trash clearing.
Doesn't the IT->PS->Pest->DnD get you 60 runic power? I know that's the rotation I've been using on trash, and from what I remember, I can almost always UB after that, though it could just be that I've always had some banked runic power.
Originally Posted by feles
Hiyas. I've been having some weird problems with my gargoyle. I don't think I've noticed anyone here talking about it but every time I summon my gargoyle it takes usually 10 seconds for the buff to appear in my frames. I've been using satrina's buff frames and use need to know to track my gargoyle uptime. So basically it starts doing damage when there is only 50 seconds left, before that it doesn't use any runic power etc...
I've been having a similar issue, though not quite identical. Basically, I use both Buffalo and Pitbull's buff frames, and the gargoyle buff only appears in buffalo's for the first 10 seconds. It happens every time, and while it is not exactly game-breaking, it is a bit annoying sometimes. (I watch pitbull's unit frames, which are filtered, to see how long I have remaining.) In retrospect, this would make it even more obvious when gargoyle begins to drain RP, allowing for safer dumping of it.
Saw some people talking about upping their trash dps before and using DnD.
If you have no RP to start off with try using this rotation on a trash pack.
Icy Touch -> Plague Strike -> Pestilence -> Death and Decay -> Blood Tap -> Blood Boil -> Unholy Blight
I placed DnD later due to threat reasons. But the main reason you BT -> BB is because it pushes you over 60 RP to also use you UB. Otherwise you won't have the RP to do it. Ideally on any given trash pull you either have Blood Tap up, or some banked RP, so that you can always get a UB off as soon as possible for trash clearing.
Assuming you have the IT glyph which you should have in any spec you can use Unholy Blight directly after Death and Decay.
I've been running a 17/0/54 with Night of the Dead maxed out and although it costs me more in corpse dust, having a ghoul on command should one pop its clogs is frankly better than any amount of points in desecration, especially with the SS glyph counteracting the need for plague strike to be reapplied. What I am noticing is that I'm being given quite a bit of leeway with regards to the Gargoyle despawn time, in that if I run out of RP and it starts to fly away, using a sudden RP dump like empower will call it back again, which is handy when I mess up rotating in UB.
For some reason, having rerolled from a hunter my guild decided that as DKs were an unknown quantity I should have to prove my worth so I go busted down to trial rank, meaning that in 25s I'm only getting the leftovers, so my gear is patchy at best (still using sub-200 blues in at least 5-6 slots). Last night at Patchwerk I ran 3700dps, but I'm still being left behind on fights like Thaddius, Loatheb, Malygos (I have to grip here, so fair enough) and fights that require a lot of movement or target swapping or phasing (Grobbulus, Anub/Faerlina to an extent, Sapphiron). Is there anything in particular I should get into the habit of doing as melee dps (other than making sure I attack from the rear) as it's been a long time since I last played a melee class with any conviction.
What I am noticing is that I'm being given quite a bit of leeway with regards to the Gargoyle despawn time, in that if I run out of RP and it starts to fly away, using a sudden RP dump like empower will call it back again, which is handy when I mess up rotating in UB.
Great idea there, i've never noticed this but it makes sense since at times i've thought my gargoyle would be gone but it happened to stay around despite the fact i'd hit 0RP. I guess that would explain it.
As for your question (and this might sound stupid) - what i've found works is quite simply tanking aoe damage such as Blizzard on Sapphiron rotating IBF/AMS. It makes it easily healable and it means you don't have to move at all, and thus won't lose any DPS.
On Anub, just make sure while he's being moved you switch to the add spawns as soon as possible to pump out max DPS, and Faerlina is another fight where AMS/IBF abuse comes in handy for me. (Bone Shield as well though it's usually buffed pre-fight and doesn't seem to be consumed on alot of AOE ticks) I honestly treat it like a stand still DPS fight other than tank movements and havn't had any problems. DK's seem very good at tanking aoe damage you'd otherwise need to avoid.
As for your question (and this might sound stupid) - what i've found works is quite simply tanking aoe damage such as Blizzard on Sapphiron rotating IBF/AMS. It makes it easily healable and it means you don't have to move at all, and thus won't lose any DPS.
On Anub, just make sure while he's being moved you switch to the add spawns as soon as possible to pump out max DPS, and Faerlina is another fight where AMS/IBF abuse comes in handy for me. (Bone Shield as well though it's usually buffed pre-fight and doesn't seem to be consumed on alot of AOE ticks) I honestly treat it like a stand still DPS fight other than tank movements and havn't had any problems. DK's seem very good at tanking aoe damage you'd otherwise need to avoid.
Just be careful with this strat. Naxx is a joke, so don't think you can just muscle through all the AOE further in the game. I can tell you right now that you better not try to pull a stunt like that on 3-Drake Sartharion once the second add lands... 100% more fire damage from a lava wave will show you which end is up very quickly, even with AMS and IBF (trust me, I learned this the hard way). Generally speaking, you're still taking more damage, while it's healable it's still extra strain on your healers. Also keep in mind that due to a recent blue post it seems that BS/IBF are going to be getting nerfs soon.
Also, some more notes that are more specific to 3-Drake sartharion. I've noticed that the ghoul AND gargoyle will die VERY quickly on the fight, usually to something like a lava burst. Careful timing is needed when summoning... usually the best time is right after a lava burst, to make the most out of the cooldowns.
Last edited by Zurm : 12/04/08 at 10:10 AM.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
Assuming you have the IT glyph which you should have in any spec you can use Unholy Blight directly after Death and Decay.
Have you somehow missed the posts for the past few pages all about the IT Glyph? No I don't use it, nor will I. I find the actual amounts of time I use IT on a boss are minimal. However I find far greater uses for having a 10 sec AMS. At current available raid content it allows me to do things other melee just can't do, dps'ing when I shouldn't. The most commonly listed number one rule for dps'ing for all classes is, "Stay alive./Don't die." IT Glyph offers too little to Unholy to outshine AMS Glyph imo. YMMV. However, that said, no one can definitively say, "X is the best choice for yoru 3rd Major Glyph as Unholy." Saying so would be false, as the margins are too many shades of gray with no decisive victor.
With that choice under your belt, you will have 55 RP + Butchery generation before you fire off BT -> BB. Meaning you will have to wait to fire off UB. This allows you the bonus damage of BB, and a slightly earlier UB without conflicting with Rune CD's.
I've been mulling over trinket choices lately and I don't think much theorycrafting has been done regarding them. It seems like there's a lot of "pretty good" choices but nothing that feels optimally itemized. Here's what I see as the list of potentials:
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]: Totals +190 strength (Pretend it's the +90 strength version; wowhead is messed up)
I think this is clearly the best option. Strength is so amazing for us. The other options are close, but this trinket seems consistently better than the other options.
There seem to be four options tied for second place:
The biggest perk of [Bandit's Insignia] is that you can use it in conjunction with Ebon Gargoyle, giving you more damage than a static +111 AP bonus would. Clicky trinkets (and ICD trinkets) also give higher benefits on any fight with a bit of downtime and/or movement. On paper it seems slightly worse than the next three but it's probably about even. [Bandit's Insignia] has a slightly better static bonus than [Extract of Necromantic Power] but slightly less damage from the proc. [Fury of the Five Flights] has the best itemization of these four, in that it only gives attack power. But actually stacking this thing with a two handed weapon seems like a total pain, and there are a lot of fights where its easy for the stack to fall off. It's good for Patchwerk I guess.
Last, it's worth mentioning:
[Mirror of Truth]: 45 second ICD and 10% proc chance. Proc worth around 120 attack power (more for dual wield)
Which is worse than the preceding five trinkets, but very easy to acquire and a decent upgrade.
Right now my intuition is to just take whichever pair of those four I can get and to buy a darkmoon deck when I can afford it.
Looks like my UB uptime wasn't perfect. Also Our feral druid dc'd so we didnt have LotP/Faerie Fire for a good portion of the fight. Also note I only had 10 IT/PS due to SS Glyph.
@Doc How much crit did you have raid buffed? Almost half of your SS were crits.
Have you somehow missed the posts for the past few pages all about the IT Glyph? No I don't use it, nor will I. I find the actual amounts of time I use IT on a boss are minimal. However I find far greater uses for having a 10 sec AMS. At current available raid content it allows me to do things other melee just can't do, dps'ing when I shouldn't. The most commonly listed number one rule for dps'ing for all classes is, "Stay alive./Don't die." IT Glyph offers too little to Unholy to outshine AMS Glyph imo. YMMV. However, that said, no one can definitively say, "X is the best choice for yoru 3rd Major Glyph as Unholy." Saying so would be false, as the margins are too many shades of gray with no decisive victor.
With that choice under your belt, you will have 55 RP + Butchery generation before you fire off BT -> BB. Meaning you will have to wait to fire off UB. This allows you the bonus damage of BB, and a slightly earlier UB without conflicting with Rune CD's.
This is kind of a blind opinion to me. Versus a single target on a long boss fight, will the IT glyph be less than useful? Yes. However, when it comes to having to switch targets (which happens quite often on bosses, and all the time on trash) you may find yourself missing that extra RP. So you have to ask yourself: "Am I the kind of raider who focuses ONLY on the theory ideal of hitting a single target for a long time, or am I going to be prepared for the REAL world of raiding, which requires me to consistantly switch targets, stop DPS to avoid dying, and ensure I maximize my average DPS in ALL situations rather than maximizing my DPS for one specific kind of boss encounter".
Trash is still part of a raid instance, last I checked. So are encounters such as Sartharion with 3-Drakes, Malygos Phase 2, KT phase 1 (the list goes on). Don't be so quick to discount a glyph which clearly has some use, at LEAST as much as whatever you'd replace it with (IBF? Bone Shield? Yes, even AMS!). There is no "right answer" with the last glyph slot as unholy, as you mentioned.
Originally Posted by tedv
[Darkmoon Card: Greatness]: Totals +190 strength (Pretend it's the +90 strength version; wowhead is messed up)
I think this is clearly the best option. Strength is so amazing for us. The other options are close, but this trinket seems consistently better than the other options.
I fully agree with you here. I've already started collecting the deck, but unfortunately the inscriptionists horde-side on my server are massive slackers, and I only have half the deck so far. This trinket promises to be amazing.
Careful here. Saying 84 crit is "barely" better than 55 hit is a loaded statement. It is extremely easy to get hit capped in full T7 and ilvl 213 gear. Also, the [Fury of the Five Flights] is 320 total AP, unless my math is off. And the fact that you have to restack it if you can't attack bosses quick enough means you're going to not get much out of it as a two-hand user on quite a few fights.
Last edited by Zurm : 12/04/08 at 11:46 AM.
Formally Xyrm/Zurm, the Ret Pally. Now playing my rogue, Zyrm, more casually with RL friends.
This is kind of a blind opinion to me. There is no "right answer" with the last glyph slot as unholy, as you mentioned.
Hence my saying, "However, that said, no one can definitively say, "X is the best choice for yoru 3rd Major Glyph as Unholy." Saying so would be false, as the margins are too many shades of gray with no decisive victor." I stated YMMV as well. It isn't a blind opinion. It is a result of my raiding experience in all current 10/25 man content short of 3 Drake Sartharion. As I said before, YMMV. The utility and ability to survive a Flame Wall from AMS, dps through Blizzards from AMS, etc... make AMS my personal choice for the current raiding environment.
Just be careful with this strat. Naxx is a joke, so don't think you can just muscle through all the AOE further in the game. I can tell you right now that you better not try to pull a stunt like that on 3-Drake Sartharion once the second add lands... 100% more fire damage from a lava wave will show you which end is up very quickly, even with AMS and IBF (trust me, I learned this the hard way). Generally speaking, you're still taking more damage, while it's healable it's still extra strain on your healers. Also keep in mind that due to a recent blue post it seems that BS/IBF are going to be getting nerfs soon.
Also, some more notes that are more specific to 3-Drake sartharion. I've noticed that the ghoul AND gargoyle will die VERY quickly on the fight, usually to something like a lava burst. Careful timing is needed when summoning... usually the best time is right after a lava burst, to make the most out of the cooldowns.
yeah, it pretty much only works because Naxx is a joke, but if you're looking to maximize DPS regardless you might as well. I seriously doubt i'll be tanking avoidable aoe's in Ulduar+
However I find far greater uses for having a 10 sec AMS. At current available raid content it allows me to do things other melee just can't do, dps'ing when I shouldn't.
Out of curiosity, what fights do you find having a 10 sec duration an advantage over an additional 15 sec cooldown? Because my own experience gives me the exact opposite impression; AMS gives us a great advantage over magic-style "cleaves", ie. short burst aoe damage like the flame waves on (non 3 drake) Saph, and on any longer duration effects, the tank will be moving the target out of the fire anyway, or it lasts long enough that we have to run out regardless. I can't think of a fight where extending it to 10 secs would mean the difference between staying in range and running out. Am I missing something?
As I've been blood since I hit 80, I haven't really had the chance to properly test any of the rumors circulating about scourge strike, most notably that it's crit bonus damage is increased with Runic Focus, and that (at least for the time being) a warlock's DoT's count as diseases for SS. Is there any truth either way to these two bits?
As I've been blood since I hit 80, I haven't really had the chance to properly test any of the rumors circulating about scourge strike, most notably that it's crit bonus damage is increased with Runic Focus, and that (at least for the time being) a warlock's DoT's count as diseases for SS. Is there any truth either way to these two bits?
No. SS is still a physical attack, not a spell; the only additional crit modifier is Vicious Strikes for an extra 30%. And no it's not bugged into acting like it is. And if warlock DoTs acted as diseases, I'm fairly sure I would be breaking 5k with ease with my two affliction locks I'm running with. But I'm not; the only DoTs that count toward SS are your own.
Has anyone gotten error while casting Gargoyle on a target that is in front of you ("You have no target")? Was fighting Onyxia last night and when Gargoyle came off cooldown I kept getting that error while trying to recast it. It has also happened on few northrend mobs as well.
Last night was pessimistic skydive in a foolish narcotic shell
Looking at Loatheb from last tuesday I think Necrosis has been undervalued.
I had 115 Necrosis hits, but only 55 swings. Adding up the rest of my strikes (including BCB) I ended up with 118 hits
swing 55
SS 20
BS 7
PS 6
IT 6
BCB 24
It seems that any strike, while in melee range procs necrosis, not just auto attacks.
E: No, It just happened to be a very good coincidence, and I didn't take crits into account.
I was wondering how accurate the current version of Rawr is for us death knights? I just got it today and some of the items its saying are my best in slot, do not come out as such when I compare them to other items using the stats listed on the DPS compendium as AP equivalency points. The only way that the current rawr would be accurate is if we dont have to be hit capped, which I was under the impression it had been decided hit is to go to cap.
I noticed this as well, I'm not really sure what's up with it. It doesn't show any of our tier gear but it shows the best in slot item in many cases is...Paladin tier gear... /boggle
12/04/08, 4:04 AM
Thanks
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