Sorry to swerve a bit off topic, but I was always under the idea that Blood had the highest single-target and boss fight dps. Looking at these results, it seems the majority is actually Unholy, even on fights that pets should die on.
I actually have strong feeling that the best dps spec both for single and aoe is some kind of DW spec. I tested it last time with blue rep swords and was able to pump quite nice dps. With proper gear and weapons it may be a monster.
I actually have strong feeling that the best dps spec both for single and aoe is some kind of DW spec. I tested it last time with blue rep swords and was able to pump quite nice dps. With proper gear and weapons it may be a monster.
Yes that spec is in the top few for each fight as well, however, at least half of the DPSers are Unholy specced. Is it just cause Unholy players are more active about reporting their stats or is Unholy just really that good? lol. But yes, I agree that Sigil and 4-piece really grant Unholy great benefits.
When I started doing 10 and 25 man raids as Unholy I was way ahead of anyone else. But as the gear kept coming in I've noticed Blood has catched up with Unholy and even got ahead on some fights. It seems Blood scales with gear way better than Unholy. So by the time people have full 25 man epic gear I'd believe Blood should be noticeably better on single target fights than Unholy.
On top of that, yesterday I managed to pull 200 DPS more as Blood than Unholy on the boss training dummy. However, I didn't use Ghoul as Unholy (neither as Blood) as I was testing my "personal" DPS.
On top of that, yesterday I managed to pull 200 DPS more as Blood than Unholy on the boss training dummy. However, I didn't use Ghoul as Unholy (neither as Blood) as I was testing my "personal" DPS.
I think testing you "personal" dps on you need to include your Ghoul as it can be as much as 15% of your overall dps. having said this I am curious did You re-glyph for the test for blood? did You use DRW? Gargoyal? I dont think its a fair comparison if You use 2/3 of the skills for each spec.
Having said that I am curious with the new AOE avoidance ghouls will get will that apply to the "Blood ghoul" also? if so wont there be alot of unholys respecing to DRW if their ghoul can stay alive for the full 2 min on a boss fight ? I'd like to see the math on it.
Edited for gramer
Last edited by Williedabull : 12/15/08 at 8:29 PM.
I think testing you "personal" dps on you need to include your Ghoul as it can be as much as 15% of your overall dps. having said this I am curious did u re-glyph for the test for blood? did u use DRW? Gargoyal? I dont think its a fair comparison if u use 2/3 of the skills for each spec.
Having said that I am curious with the new AOE avoidance ghouls will get will that apply to the "Blood ghoul" also? if so wont there be alot of unholys respecing to DRW if their ghoul can stay alive for the full 2 min on a boss fight ? I'd like to see the math on it.
I did use DRW and Gargoyle respectively and I did change my glyphs according the spec. The idea was to see how much DPS I could pump without relying on stuff that can die (of course Gargoyle would get killed by AoE as well as the ghoul).
No-one here appears to be talking about corpse explosion. To me, change from a rune cost to a RP cost on CE made it instantly more attractive, no matter what damage it did. That they claim to have doubled the damage (well, the base damage) is neither here nor there.
Then there's the new Raise Dead glyph - no corpse dust cost to raise a ghoul. Shiny. And the ghoul glyph now gives your ghoul another 40% stamina. And the damage that it does when it explodes is based on it's HP pool. So, the question is:
Is the "Jihad"* coming back?
------------------------
There's another question - assuming corpse explosion is on par with other abilities. (Guessing how much better or worse is not my thing) - how do you best use it? To me it seems more like a trash ability - used after your first rune rotation, and sticking up UB. But with Glyph of Corpse Explosion (essentially two exploded corpses for the price of one), does that change? Fight like Noth could get interesting - blowing up the trash around him.
For that matter, does blowing up your ghoul trigger the glyph?
*The Jihad involves blowing up your ghoul every time raise dead comes off cooldown. It was part of an old SS glyph/desecration rotation where you only refreshed one disease per set of runes - usually PS, to improve desecration uptime. Though, now that I think about it, I can't remember why the idea of using corpse explosion that aggressively has anything to do with that particular rotaion.
If the new Obliterate glyph is going to straight out buff the ability's damage by 20%, and not have any negative side affects relating to disease damage, will Obliterate become better than SS at a certain gear level?
I'm figuring that SS is better due to the fact that the damage it does bypasses armor, but Obliterate hits inherently harder. Could anyone on the PTR provide some testing please?
On top of that, yesterday I managed to pull 200 DPS more as Blood than Unholy on the boss training dummy. However, I didn't use Ghoul as Unholy (neither as Blood) as I was testing my "personal" DPS.
I might be wrong here, but isn't the whole purpose of testing specs, to examine the maximum dps potential (in this case)? This means squeezing out every bit of power to get as near perfection as possible (in theory)? Of course, you won't reach perfection due the roaming conditions like lag, procs, time to react etc.
I might be wrong here, but isn't the whole purpose of testing specs, to examine the maximum dps potential (in this case)? This means squeezing out every bit of power to get as near perfection as possible (in theory)? Of course, you won't reach perfection due the roaming conditions like lag, procs, time to react etc.
Correct me if I'm wrong
Well I wanted to see what I could without relying on some random stuff like ghoul who for whatever reason decides to fall over and die every once in a while.
Consider it as more of "reliable DPS" testing instead of maximum.
Well I wanted to see what I could without relying on some random stuff like ghoul who for whatever reason decides to fall over and die every once in a while.
Consider it as more of "reliable DPS" testing instead of maximum.
I am still a little confused by this. one of the big reasons to spec into unholy is:
1. Full time Ghoul
2. 15% Increased run speed (more people alive= better overall dps)
3. 13% more magic done by other magic users.
I am not saying your wrong but i think there is a bigger picture to see here then just personal DPS. I think taking all of this into account Unholy>Blood for overall raid dps. (I haven't done the math here but I think its pretty clear)
Plus if you spec into NoTD if your Ghoul does go down its certainly not down for long (not including being able to Raise a fallen raid member.) Making this compairason taking only something's into consideration seems a little unfair to both builds.
Well I wanted to see what I could without relying on some random stuff like ghoul who for whatever reason decides to fall over and die every once in a while.
Consider it as more of "reliable DPS" testing instead of maximum.
Did you test with full (standard) raid buffs? Kings, Battle Shout, Sunders, etc? 10 man reliable buffs or 25 man (I tend to only assume Ferocious Inspiration, Trueshot Aura, Moonkin haste aura, etc, as standard in 25 mans).
Did you gem/ enchant gear to account for spec changes, or only glyphs? Personally, I tend to value haste more in Blood than in Unholy, for instance.
Did you factor in heavy movement or static fights? Did you back off to simulate vortex/ iceblocks/ Grobulus bubbles?
Did you make sure you had 100% disease uptime as Unholy, for Ebon Plaguebringer, vs. Blood, where it's not as relevant? Did you burn the Hysteria runes but not actually target yourself, to reflect buffing a Rogue?
If you were just standing there hitting the dummy without the benefit of the ghoul, I'd certainly expect Blood to edge out on DPS overall. If there was a 200 DPS difference, was that over 2k or 4k?
I am still a little confused by this. one of the big reasons to spec into unholy is:
1. Full time Ghoul
2. 15% Increased run speed (more people alive= better overall dps)
3. 13% more magic done by other magic users.
I am not saying your wrong but i think there is a bigger picture to see here then just personal DPS. I think taking all of this into account Unholy>Blood for overall raid dps. (I haven't done the math here but I think its pretty clear)
Plus if you spec into NoTD if your Ghoul does go down its certainly not down for long (not including being able to Raise a fallen raid member.) Making this compairason taking only something's into consideration seems a little unfair to both builds.
Well yes unholy does have Unholy Aura which is great raid buff, magic damage can be increased by other classes too though and the ghoul, even with NotD can be very very random.
+ to the other post that popped up while I was writing this one:
I never said what I did was some end all way to spec or that it was 25 man raid only test. It was just something I did. And not every encounter in the game is a Patchwerk. There's PvP, there's 5 mans, there's 10 mans and so on.
I have a question about mods, the only reason why I post this here is because my DK is unholy spec and it would help my DPS.
I use to use the WoW's SCT system to show me trinket procs so I could know when to use my Gargoyle at the most opportune time ( when Mirror of Truth proc's ) but ever since we got into 25-man's a few weeks ago I had to turn it off because I couldn't deal with the spam from the Hunter's Ferocious Inspiration and also our Enhancement Shaman's AP buff.
Is there some sort of mod I could get for SCT that would ONLY show my aura's ( trinket proc's )? It would greatly help me learn to time my gargoyle better in 25-man's.
Is there some sort of mod I could get for SCT that would ONLY show my aura's ( trinket proc's )? It would greatly help me learn to time my gargoyle better in 25-man's.
WWS from my guilds 1st dip in to Naax: Wow Web Stats
Peaked at about 1800dps according to recount in game on our best attempt on Raz. Only showing as 1500 on WWS due to lack of ghoul credit.
I'm pretty happy with it given my current gear, I was a little sloppy in getting behind him when he changed targets so there are more misses/parries then there should be.
Reference c0nscript's post, I use the Parrot add-on or SCT and SCT damage add-ons. Both of which you are able to set alarms for certain buffs but also will have the buff scroll with the damage you deal.
For that matter, does blowing up your ghoul trigger the glyph?
*The Jihad involves blowing up your ghoul every time raise dead comes off cooldown. It was part of an old SS glyph/desecration rotation where you only refreshed one disease per set of runes - usually PS, to improve desecration uptime. Though, now that I think about it, I can't remember why the idea of using corpse explosion that aggressively has anything to do with that particular rotaion.
My ghoul pet does not have an explosion ability, I must be missing something here. Does using CE cause your Ghoul to explode?
MY guild is looking for me to add Icy Talons to my unholy build while keeping unholy aura. I am trying to accomedate but is 4% to the raid better buff than the probable 4-500 dps that I would lose in this spec. I think 4-500dps may be a low number as well but not positive. We have 2 shamans in raids just no enhancement atm. This is my the trial spec. Thanks for your help!
Not worth it. You're losing WAY too much (Bladed Armor, 2h spec, 5% crit, 10% damage) to give the raid 4% extra haste. Considering that it only affects melee DPS, and of them not even everyone even makes good use of haste, there's no way it'll even up with the personal DPS you'd be losing.
Yeah I kinda have that feeling I am just trying to figure out how to tell the officers that. In theory I would be losing probably 6-700 dps easy with trying to pick up the icy talons its just too far down in the tree to be of any real use.
Yeah I kinda have that feeling I am just trying to figure out how to tell the officers that. In theory I would be losing probably 6-700 dps easy with trying to pick up the icy talons its just too far down in the tree to be of any real use.
Isn't there a DW spec that picks up both Icy Talons and Unholy Aura?
I actually have strong feeling that the best dps spec both for single and aoe is some kind of DW spec. I tested it last time with blue rep swords and was able to pump quite nice dps. With proper gear and weapons it may be a monster.
This has been my experience. I'm an 'Unholy Guy' but the disappointment with my own DPS brought me to try a DW spec, particularly since my DW weapons have been better than my 2h weapons. I'm using a 0/32/39 spec and doing significantly more damage than I was full Unholy. Honestly, however, I'm fairly certain this has to do with a couple main points: 1) I still don't have the Sigil from Heigan and there's currently no other option. 2) My little Ghoul friend drops dead constantly.
I think with the patch changes coming, things will even out again, just my prediction.
On the subject of Ghoulsplosion, has anybody figured out a macro that auto-targets and explodes the Ghoul via CE? I've yet to be able to find a working macro. Everything I've tried that should work simply doesn't because of the obscure mechanics. When you target a ghoul for CE it doesn't actually 'CE' him, it triggers him to cast Explode. Any target=pet macros have failed me :\
EDIT:
Originally Posted by Enyalius
Yeah I kinda have that feeling I am just trying to figure out how to tell the officers that. In theory I would be losing probably 6-700 dps easy with trying to pick up the icy talons its just too far down in the tree to be of any real use.
The spec I'm using, and the one posted above me, does more than sufficient DPS. It's actually my current primary spec and I'm certainly not short on DPS. It lacks some of the tools and toys from Unholy though, so your enjoyment may vary.
Might be giving something similar to this a try next week.
As interesting as this build is, giving access to BCB, Necrosis, HB, and KM... would the bonus of run-speed + Ghoul + Ebon Plague be more beneficial to the raid than the Critical Strike Damage Bonus of Guile of Gorefiend? I wonder at what point Ebon Plague and Impurity could statistically present an equal or greater damage bonus to Howling Blast to compensate for not getting GoG, since the point of a DW build is to maximize DPS through BCB, Necrosis, and Killing Machine through faster attack speeds, and Howling Blast as your huge damage dealer.
Edited for clarity.
Last edited by Oathof Chaos : 12/15/08 at 7:56 AM.
12/14/08, 6:08 AM
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