Davia

It parses the ghoul correctly on the first few fights generally. I think until you rez it with a new name, perhaps.

 

methods

Stat conversions that include the Ghoul as 100% uptime for Unholy change the value of STR and Haste.

1STR = 2.81 ap
1haste = .71 ap

Everything else obviously stays the same.

 

Stein

Is the two item bonus worth it?

Based off Xyrm's best patch dps: WOW Meter Online

20% ish of his damage is from SS; the two item bonus adds 5% crit to SS...or 1% crit prorated for SS percentage. that's equivalent to about 46 crit rating.

now the shoulders are worth wearing in their own right, so we can apply the +(46*1.02) to the other t7 item. if the above is accurate, t7 items are a loss (even with 2 item bonus) compared to:

head - Obsidian Greathelm
chest - Undiminished Battleplate, Chestguard of the Recluse, Cult's Chestguard, Breastplate of Frozen Pain
hands - Crude Discolored Battlegrips
legs - Belabored Legplates, Leggings of the Honored, Staggering Legplates

Can this be correct? The key would seem to be % of SS damage...

(anyone else want to take a stab at the 4 item bonus?)

 

Davia

Methods, are these stat weightings being calculated for blue gear and a 180 DPS 2H still?

If so, I'd like to see the numbers with Naxx10/25 gear. Your values for crit still seem surprisingly low.

 

Davia

The 4 piece bonus is absolutely huge. With a standard unholy rotation, it adds 40 or 50 RP per 20 seconds (depending on if SS glyph procs or not). That's at minimum 1 free death coil every 20 seconds. It also allows you to easily maintain UB during Gargoyle, even at the present 60 RP cost.

 

• Zurm

This is the issue with looking at specific individual's parses. Someone else pointed out that I had a lower SS % than they did, and I explained as a different priority system. Whether I was correct or not (most likely not) is another discussion, but in that case I put priority on disease uptime and other factors, causing me to SS only 4 times every 20 seconds instead of closer to 5, like one would expect. You should see SS be closer to 25% of damage in an idea situation.

Also, as Davia mentioned, the 4pc bonus is REALLY good. While on paper you might not be able to appreciate it, I have so much RP as unholy at times I don't quite know what to do with it. It makes keeping Gargoyle up (which is a very significant part of your dps on many fights) trivial, and allows you to sneak in extra death coils and/or UBs.

 

boomix

I've seen this issue and it is very annoying.

Scenario #1. Unholy DK with desceration and I (w/o desecration) in the raid. I got lucky and applied Ebon plgue first. He used plague strike deployed desecration and over-wrote my EP within 1-2 seconds of it on the ground. I never got it back unless desecration fell off. This also caused SS glyph not to work for extended periods of time and dps loss was obvious.

Scenario #2. Same unholy DK w/o desecration in last night's raid would over-ride my EP at random times throughout the fight. We went back and forth a few times taking it away from each other.

Last night was pessimistic skydive in a foolish narcotic shell

 

tedv

If these results are true, especially with the 2.8 str = 1 ap conversion including the ghoul, what does this imply about gemming in yellow sockets? I'm thinking that 16 strength will be better than 8 strength / 8 crit once you are capped, and the 8 strength / 8 hit cut isn't in the game. For example, consider the T7 gloves: [Valorous Scourgeborne Gauntlets]

16 str: 44.8 AP
8 str / 8 crit + 4 crit: 36.6 AP

And when not hit capped:

7 str / 7 hit + 4 crit: 39.9 AP

With the mythic [Etched Monarch Topaz] cut, when not hit capped:

8 str / 8 hit + 4 crit: 45.2 AP

Since crit is so much worse than strength, this socket bonus is total trash.

Of course, for something like [Valorous Scourgeborne Legplates], the set bonus is better. Here are the numbers:

16 str: 44.8 AP
7 str / 7 hit + 6 hit: 51.6 AP
8 str / 8 hit + 6 crit: 56.8 AP

So the [Perfect Etched Huge Citrine] beats a [Bold Scarlet Ruby] if you need the hit rating.

I think the summary is that if the set bonus is Strength, you match yellow sockets. And you should also match yellow sockets when the bonus is hit or expertise and you aren't capped. Otherwise just socket pure [Bold Scarlet Ruby] in all yellow and blue sockets.

 

methods

It's based on my current gear on the armory (minus some hit to have 'before cap' values) + buffs. I'll edit this post with a fully geared after cap summary if I can grab some time.

EDIT:
Gear with proper enchants/gems (str and crit with a little exp)
Intentionally stayed below Exp Cap to show how it scales with gear ivalue. Melee Hit capped but not spell hit capped.

Heroes' Scourgeborne Shoulderplates
Heroes' Scourgeborne Legplates
Breastplate of Frozen Pain
Heroes' Scourgeborne Helmet
Heroes' Scourgeborne Gauntlets
Girdle of Razuvious
Bracers of Unrelenting Attack
Death-Inured Sabatons
Mirror of Truth
Darkmoon Card: Greatness
Ruthlessness
Surge Needle Ring
Fool's Trial
Drape of the Deadly Foe
Betrayer of Humanity
Sigil of Awareness
Glyph of Icy Touch
Blood and frost =glyph of oblit

STAT	Unholy	Unholy&Gh	Blood	Frost
1AP	1.0000	1.0000	1.0000	1.0000
1STR	2.4847	2.7920	2.5570	2.3650
1CRT	1.1760	1.1760	1.4381	1.5083
1HIT	1.2497	1.2497	1.1779	1.3167
1Haste	0.7220	0.8464	0.7613	0.6778
1Exp	2.5835	2.5835	3.3332	2.5081
1AP-R	0.7165	0.7165	1.5379	1.1420
1AGI	0.9231	0.9231	1.0256	1.1386
1Armor	0.0278	0.0278	0.0294	0.0319
1dps (wpn)	6.3907	6.3907	8.5788	9.6253

Make sense?

 

methods

Honestly, for this reason I did jewelcrafting and blacksmithing.

The prismatic bold and precise dragon's eyes are amazing and it makes those pesky yellow and especially blue sockets much more flexible. But for those who do not wish to waste time on changing professions. Expertise+hit cap then nothing but STR seems to make sense unless the socket bonus is also STR.

PS: I've added my 'geared' values above.

 

Leperchaun

Wow, it kinda sucks to see that str is so far superior to crit in all aspects, especially for a more magic based spec like Unholy. I would have thought crit rating would play a more important role since it works for both melee and spells, but it doesn't appear to be the case. Guess I'll be gemming towards str from now on, so long as I can maintain hit and expertise cap.

 

◊ Bryne

Did you miss the memo that attack power affects DK spell damage?

 

tedv

Just to clarify, you're saying that for unholy, hit rating beats crit rating even after you're at the melee hit cap, just because of the increased death coil damage. Are you assuming any Unholy Blight usage in your spreadsheet, or just assuming that all runic power is spent on Death Coil? Obviously the value of spell hit decreases as you spend less runic power on Death Coil.

 

Sekke

The more and more I use Gargoyle, the more I come to hate it on AOE heavy fights where I often see it fall dead before it even starts doing damage. Anyone know if the upcoming buff to Night of the Dead affects it as well as our Ghoul?

 

Teyrocar

/facepalm

Yeah, and add to that the fact that Impurity makes AP even more important to Unholy.

 

Leperchaun

No, not really, I had seen the chart on the dk dps thread before. I was mostly saying it because it was counter-intuitive to the way I had perceived it, and also as a comment on tedv's post, since he was pointing out it's more important to even skip set bonuses in certain cases.

 

Leperchaun

I think the hope is that it does, since the notes say:

Night of the Dead also Also reduces the damage your pet takes from area of effect attacks by 40/70%.

I haven't seen a post guaranteeing that it does, but there might be one on here from someone that's tested it.

 

methods

I'm using as much UB as the RP limits can allow with DC peppered between refreshes. I'll have to double check how I've factored hit into UB's Per tick dps. I was under the assumption that even though it can be partially resisted it can also have ticks miss (thought they are misses that do not push back rotations). That may be an error. Regardless, the values will not change so dramatically that it would change our assumptions.

 

Bloody_sorcerer

I do not know if I have solid evidence (FRAPS or screenshots, that is) of it, but I have absolutely seen unholy blight misses past the first tick in my SCTD.

 

Havenwood

Unholy Blight and Death Coil are both based on the Spell Hit mechanic.

 

tedv

Alright, then that doesn't change anything. This means hit after cap is better than crit rating for unholy, or at least comparable, so make your gearing decisions accordingly.

 

Bloody_sorcerer

Looks like our hard cap for hit is ~288.6 hit rating, assuming virulence and misery/imp FF.

Edit:
@Methods: what methodology are you using for determining AP stat weights?

 

methods

Crit has other benefits for abilities that are based on periodic but random use like when more healing from deathstrike would be nearly required (low-mana healers, etc). Outside of patchwerk-esk fights I'd also value crit more than this shows because of the lower sustained uptime on said debuffed mob. Obviously, Strength will be equally as useful in any situation as long as your Ghoul lives.

Re: Bloody_sorc

I'm using a complex spreadsheet that I've been developing since early beta. I'll be posting a user friendly version soon.
I have sent it to a few people on this forum who can at least admit that it is rather large. I've been error checking with a few of them and I hope to compile a list of credits if I can remember who gave input on what.

YES, there are errors. That, I can guarantee. It's getting much more accurate over time though. The values I've shared are based on standard rotations over a 3 minute period including cooldowns and are the most up to date figures I've been able to produce.

I know my frost values are off by something. In all likelihood Crit should be even more valuable to Frost than it shows. My formulas for Killing machine are logical but untested and are more than likely underperforming. Same goes for Sudden death crit formulas.

Also, the Ghoul is only assumed for Unholy and even though I have DW calculations I'm not happy with them and wont be sharing them until I'm closer to a realistic dps output. For now everything i've shard has been for the 2H perspective.

 

mts

I'm not good at number crunching but I believe the 4-set bonus is totally worth it especially during an active gargoyle since you can easily maintain UB (as mentioned earlier).

Heres a WOW-meter from our last patch kill. It went pretty well even tho I did some mistakes. WOW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

I really need a new sigil and a new weapon. My armory might not reflect it yet, but I have alot more expertise now than I did on that raid.

I sincerely hope this as well, I have had my gargoyle die early in so many AoE fights, I cannot express how frustrating that is. =(

 

Teyrocar

Anyone having a problem where Shadow of Death won't activated when you die?

We did Patchwerk 25 last night and I was Unholy specced. However, there were several times where one of our undergeared tanks would die and I'd start getting hit by his strikes. Needless to say this would eventually end up in my death after Bone Shield wore off; however, I noticed that I NEVER returned as a ghoul. Maybe I was killed "too fast"? I died previously in the instance and it activated fine, but never during Patchwerk.