Alistra

I to am having problems turning out the sort of damage quoted in this thread - Now this could be down to raid make-up. One issue being our Tanks are a DK, Druid and a Paladin and our only DW fury warrior wont sunder.
There is a post on the EU DK wow forum asking players to post there DPS on the Dummy in Ebon Hold, without any buffs. - would be nice to see that member dps in a sterile controlled environment to see comparisons.

Im pretty disappointed with my DPS at the moment compared to our Rogues and Warriors I feel a little inadequate, been playing with my builds, rotation[PS>IT>BS>BS>SS>RPD>SS>SS>SS>RPD] and gear with little improvement.

So my only conclusion is lack of ability

 

Fugazor

In patchwerk boss positioning and quality of tanks/healers can make all difference (running to green slime as melee). Not to mention length of the fight affect it too (shorter = higher personal dps).

If you break 4k on patchwerk I would say the rest is:
- raid (as above)
- big upgrades (Kel axe, sigil)
- Garg management (crusader + 1000ap proc + bloodlust for example)
- RNG (glyph proc, crit etc.)

We aren't top dps class and worst of all 1/3 of our damage comes from pets. Rogues are actually low unless they "exploit" HAT, I can't find my guild warriors that high too aside from Thaddius and Loatheb.

 

Alistra

When We first cleared Nax, I was top 5 with 3.6k dps on Patchwerk in Blues/Epics - I can now get over 4k dps on Patchwerk, but our HAT Rogue and DW warrior are close to 5-6k DPS. Somewhere along the line i'm cocking something up.

The best I can do, Un-buffed, [no HoW or bone armor] on the test dummy in Ebon Hold is 2.3k dps over 3mins

 

Dreadknight

I find myself in a similar situation.

I am working on my rotations, I am getting better with ghoul up time. I'm summoning my Garg as soon as I have the RP as early on in boss fights as I can so I can get it again in the same fight.

With prettymuch the same group, I did better DPS on Tues than I did last night ater practicing the recommended rotation on a dummy for a half hour and implementing it in Naxx.

I will admit that on Patchwerk and on KT, I was the number one DPSer for those 2 bosses but otherwise, I was number 2 up until the trash room between Noth and Heigan where I couldn't AOE fast enough and slipped to 3rd where I ended the raid. Also, I did 1-2 hundred more DPS on Tue and that was before I had 2 more upgrades from blue to epic.

There is no doubt in my mind, DK has the most complex combat rotations.

 

Measles

Hey guys. Long time lurker first time poster. Thanks to the many excellent threads, especially this one, on this forum I feel like I've really begun to understand the workings of the Death knight class.

I'm guild top dps by a good 5-6% usually, sitting comfortably on around 22-25% in raids and always on at least 2.3k dps or thereabouts. In Heroics in my standard team I sit on 36%, 2.3kdps+ and with pugs I've seen it go to 48% (seriously shocking pug tbh ).

My guild has cleared Naxx once now and we're going for our second clear this week and we've also done OS and VoA. We've got some quite well geared dps alongside me but by and large I totally smash them on the metres. We had our first go at Malygos last night and, whilst it was fun, we ran with a mostly undergeared team so we didn't do so well! We're a small guild that will most likely only ever do 10 mans. I raid unholy with the standard 17/0/54 build and absolutely love it (hopefully even more so after the next patch!) Here is a link to my armoury:

The World of Warcraft Armory

As you can see my gear ranges from best in slot for my level of progression (gloves, chest, back, 1 trinket, boots and belt) to some pretty basic blues. My hit is quite low yet I still top the charts with relative ease. You'll also probably notice that my gear isn't enchanted by and large - this is due to the frankly ridiculous price of mats on my realm atm.

Anyways, I've got a few questions that hopefully you can help with:

For weapons, I see everyone raving about the [Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver]but I don't get the hype. At the minute I'm running with the [Sword of Justice] and, looking at the stats, the sockets (which I have a +16strength in bringing it just shy of the cleaver on strength), the speed and the top end it just seems out and out better than the Cleaver - am I missing something? Should I be trying to get the Cleaver or just continue using my sword until I (hopefully) get Death's Bite from KT?

Rotations wise I had the bad habit of starting with IT as I ran to a mob and then breaking in with PS but seeing all the posts on here I now start with PS -> IT. Although my dps is high, I know I could do better, so I wanted to clear a few things up.

Basically a normal (trash pack) fight will go: DnD-PS-IT-Pest-BS-Blood Tap-Unholy Blight-BS-SS a couple of times then PS-IT-Pest-BS-BS-SS x however many i can fit in followed by DC. Single target and/or bosses will be essentially the same but without the Pest shoved in.

The way I figure it, UB is a dot so the sooner it goes up the better, but I see people here not using it until the end of their first rotation. Why is this? What am I missing? I also throw DnD down straight away as I ususlly run with a highly skilled palatank and I NEVER pull aggro from him using the above rotation. Another thing - Blood Boil - do people use it? I don't tend to, really, preferring to use the rune for something else instead. Is this 'wrong'?

Like I've said I'm currently top but I know I can squeeze more dps out and any help you guys can give would be greatly appreciated!

 

• Zurm

First, never undervalue the power of weapon DPS. It is a very significant boost to your attacks. Also, a large part of the hype surrounding the [Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver] is that most PVE horde DKs are Orcs (for the obviously superior racials), and they get 5 free expertise when using it compared to other weapons at the same tier of progression.

 

methods

Even with the human expertise racial factored in the [Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver] is slightly superior. You would barely notice a difference (maybe 30dps in the 4000dps range).

 

Traziel

Hey guys. I've seen the majority of posts referencing our rotation in regards to single target DPS (PS>IT>BS>BS>SS>RPD>SS>SS>SS>RPD), but I'm wondering - what's the "standard" for an AoE/trash fight? I figured I'd be seeing it more in these threads considering our efficiency in dishing out AoE damage.

Keeping up a single-target rotation is fairly simple at this point, but as soon as I start switching targets and getting "disease-drop paranoia," it seems I go into button-masher mode. Generally, I cast diseases, spread with pestilence, Blood Tap, then D&D. At that point, I'm rune-dry, so I pick a high-HP target and Death Coil it a few times until my runes are back up; but what do I do with those newly-refreshed runes?

I think my confusion happens because I'm using that Blood Rune on pestilence, which won't create DRs for me. I'm wondering if it's more of just a situation where I feel like something's wrong because I'm not cranking out that same number of SSs...

Edit: Hey look, measles had pretty much the same question. Go me!

 

tedv

Just to stress a little more about how awesome being an orc is, remember that 5 expertise is the equivalent of 42 expertise rating. Since it's that much easier to get expertise capped (orc death knights shouldn't need any +expertise gems with best in slot gear), you can shift your gemming more towards strength. Keep in mind that the profession stat bonus is targeted at 36 stat points. So the orc expertise racial is more beneficial than having a third profession.

But wait, there's more! We'll also throw in 5% extra pet damage! As unholy, between 1000 and 1500 DPS come from your pets. An extra 5% damage on top of that is 50 to 75 DPS, which is about a bit better than the bonuses from two professions put together. Still not convinced? How about a third trinket, giving an average of 40 attack power? That's 322 for 15 seconds every 2 minutes.

In other words, being an orc is like having 6 sets of profession bonuses while other races only get 2. It's not even remotely fair.

Of course, other races don't start with a blank slate, but they aren't even remotely close. Blood elves get one extra death coil every 5 minutes from Arcane Torrent. Trolls get Berserking, which is haste and therefore terrible. Tauren and Undead get nothing that increases damage.

 

Sikorae

Best in Slot:
Is there a site, or a list of these items? I've made a list of my own desired gear for each slot based on comparisons versus other available pieces and I'm just curious to see what the consensus is on some pieces.

My Current Wishlist:

Head: [Valorous Scourgeborne Helmet]

Neck: [Fool's Trial]

Back: [Aged Winter Cloak]

Shoulder: [Valorous Scourgeborne Shoulderplates]

Chest: [Undiminished Battleplate]

Wrist: [Bracers of Unrelenting Attack]

Hand: [Valorous Scourgeborne Gauntlets]

Feet: [Death-Inured Sabatons]

Legs: [Valorous Scourgeborne Legplates]

Waist: [Girdle of Razuvious]

Ring 1: [Ruthlessness]

Ring 2: Ring of the Kirin Tor (the [Ring of Invincibility]may be a better option here)
http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...55kirintor.jpg

Trinket 1: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]

Trinket 2: [Extract of Necromantic Power]

Weapon: [Betrayer of Humanity]

Sigil: [Sigil of Awareness]

All together, that gear set puts me at 290 Hit Rating and just over the Expertise cap (orc racials).

 

• Zurm

I don't think there is a consensus, but there is a general agreement of about what stats are best. If you look at my armory, I consider everything best-in-slot except for the two piece of T7-10 gear (which would obviously become the 25-man equivalent), the [Mirror of Truth] (since there has been a lot of debate about trinkets... I still think it's one of the best), and [Band of the Kirin Tor] (which would be replaced with [Ring of Invincibility] purchased with 25x [Emblem of Valor], which I will likely buy tonight). Possibly my cloak as well. Also, [Girdle of Razuvious] is a fantastic upgrade, though I don't need the expertise it would allow me to regem my prismatic for more STR.

If there was 1 piece of T7 I would suggestion avoiding, it would be the chest. It is the worst itemized piece of the entire set, sporting way more haste than it should. The legs have haste too, but a more towned down amount, at least lower than the crit. The breastplate I wear drops off Sapphiron-25, and is FAR better itemized.

Otherwise, I have 1 rating over hit cap, exactly expertise capped (Orc racials FTW!), and prioritizing AP over crit.

EDIT: Comparing what I just said with your list, it seems there are a few small differences between the neck, chest, and wrist. It's mostly a different balance of hit/expertise. The end result is the same. Just keep in mind you don't need that much hit... 263 rating (8%) is enough to cap you now. Also, be careful with the , I believe there was some debate a few pages back about it's actual worth compared to other trinkts. [Bandit's Insignia] seems like a safer choice.

 

Sikorae

I'll look into the vs the [Bandit's Insignia], though what I've seen so far in regards to unholy DKs with the trinket, is it makes up 2-3% of total damage. Not sure how well [Bandit's Insignia] does compared to that but I'll likely take whatever I can get my hands on at this point.

In regards to the 8% hit cap currently, has this been proven to not be a bug yet? I've read through most of the thread concerning the drop in hit cap, and while evidence is definitely pointing in that direction, I'm not completely sure it's meant to be that way.

 

tedv

[Circle of Death] seems like a flat out superior ring to [Ring of Invincibility], especially given that you're using a 27 expertise gem which could be 27 strength instead.

Here's what I was planning on taking for best in slot. Jury is still out on the second trinket slot by the way.

Weapon: [Betrayer of Humanity]
Sigil: [Sigil of Awareness]
Helm: [Valorous Scourgeborne Helmet]
Neck: [Collar of Dissolution]
Shoulders: [Valorous Scourgeborne Shoulderplates]
Back: [Drape of the Deadly Foe]
Chest: [Breastplate of Frozen Pain]
Wrists: [Bracers of Unrelenting Attack]
Gloves: [Valorous Scourgeborne Gauntlets]
Belt: [Girdle of Razuvious]
Legs: [Valorous Scourgeborne Legplates]
Boots: [Bladed Steelboots]
Ring 1: [Ruthlessness]
Ring 2: [Circle of Death]
Trinket 1: [Darkmoon Card: Greatness]
Trinket 2a: [Bandit's Insignia]
Trinket 2b: [Loatheb's Shadow]

Total Hit Rating: 290 = 8.84% (including 12 from Icewalker boot enchant but skipping socket bonus on bracers)
Total Expertise Rating: 141 = 17.19 skill

So in theory you want to trim 27 hit rating and 18 expertise rating from this gear set. Of course if you are missing even one piece from this set that gives hit or expertise rating, this list should define the pieces you want for the other 15 slots. I'm not sure what's the best way of trimming the excess hit and expertise. That's assuming you picked orc, the master race. If you didn't pick orc, then you definitely need all this expertise and you'll end up gemming for a bit more.

PS: You are missing an Eternal Belt Buckle.

 

• Zurm

To me, it seems swapping my current belt with a [Girdle of Razuvious] seems like a bigger upgrade than that ring swap. It would put me over cap, but give me way more AP (both through base stats and regemming) and a bit more crit. [Drape of the Deadly Foe] is definitely best-in-slot, but due to high demand and low drop rate in my guild, it's not a realistic option (and I'd rather pass it to rogues/hunters).

And I actually have an eternal belt buckle, just for some reason the armory refuses to show it. I have a 16 str scarlet ruby in it. Your armory doesn't show you as having one either.

 

Alistra

I have a HUGE amount of hit compared to you guys, 425!. Now im stacking hit to cap Spell Hit, so i've completely surpassed my melee hit. Is this wrong? - OK I could read this entire topic, but as im currently at work, and that being the only time I read forums, I dont have the time to check.

 

• Zurm

You get some free spell hit in raids, not sure on the exact amount but the rating you have puts you way beyond what you need. Also, the forum has a search function for those who are unable to read the whole thing!

 

Waste

I have a similar question/comment as to Measels/Traziel:

With pretty much every trash pull, and any multi-target boss fight, I have found that I am opening with the following -

Pre-pull Blood Tap
Plague Strike
Icy Touch
Pestilence
Blood Boil
Scourge Strike
Unholy Blight

Getting all the diseases ticking and blight up quickly seems to do more damage, especially in situations where there are 3 or more mobs around. The Blood Boil comes back as a Death Rune and does more damage than a Blood Strike provided that there are 3 or more fully infected targets (if there are only 2, I would Blood Strike here instead). The next Scourge Strike is up relatively quickly after the GCD ends from the Unholy Blight.

Another thing I've been fooling around with in multi-mob pulls: If your diseases are about to fall off your primary target (due to no refresh from Scourge Strike), tab to a secondary target and re-pestilence. This will re-spread the diseases back to all mobs (including your primary target) and effectively save you a Frost Rune.

 

tedv

I'm attacking this problem not as "Zyrm's next upgrade" but "ideal gear set". The list I posted has best in slot choices if you are neither hit nor expertise capped. In that context, [Surge Needle Ring] is also a better choice than [Ring of Invincibility] in the grand scheme of things. It's true that ring of invincibility lets you trade your useless capped expertise (or hit, depending on what you swap out) for haste while keeping other things constant, but haste really isn't all that great. Are there any other slots we can play with to keep under the hit and expertise cap? Sadly most of the hit is on our T7 gear, which we can't really lose.

Regardless, I think we clearly want +32 attack power instead of Icewalker on our boots since it's so easy to get over the hit cap.

One option involves swapping the Sapphiron breastplate for the T7 chest, although that puts us a bit under cap. Then swapping [Circle of Death] for [Surge Needle Ring]. Here's the net change:

-33 Expertise (15 under cap so effectively loss of 15)
-19 Hit (1 under cap so effectively loss of 1)
-3 Crit
-50 Strength
+112 Attack Power
+41 Agility
+83 haste

The expertise loss will make us spend one red socket on +16 expertise instead of 16 strength, so here's the final change:

-1 hit
-3 crit
-66 Strength
+112 Attack Power
+41 Agility
+83 Haste

Is that even an improvement? I think it is, but not by much. Assuming hit and strength are worth 2.4 attack power and crit is worth 1.4, that's a loss of 165 attack power. With Agility and haste worth .6 attack power, that's a gross gain of 186 and a net gain of 21 attack power. Nothing to write home about.

Just a straight up swap of Circle of Death for Ring of Invincibility is:

-16 Strength (from regemming the lost expertise)
-50 Strength (from the ring itself)
-6 Crit
+28 Agility
+112 Attack Power
+38 Haste

That's roughly 167 attack power lost and 152 gained, so you're actually losing 15 attack power from that swap.

At any rate, can we do better than the strange gear juggling I listed above, which involves stealing a surge needle ring from rogues and hunters, and ignores the DPS increase from having hit rating over the melee cap (as it still provides spell hit)? At this point I'm thinking we should just be a bit over hit and expertise cap and suck it up as the best choice overall.

 

Krom[Fenris]

The biggest question right now seems to be whether the 4-piece bonus is worth wearing inferior set pieces over the greater non-set pieces. As already stated, the BP is easily the worst of our T7 pieces, so we're looking at gloves, legs, helm and shoulders. Each of these has a superior non-set piece, but the 2-piece bonus is clearly worth getting. I prefer to go with the shoulders and helm, but I could also see an argument for the shoulders and gloves perhaps.

I'm currently sporting the 4 piece bonus with a mix of 10 and 25 man pieces, and it's definitely nice having that increased RP generation, but I don't know if it quite justifies wearing that many inferior pieces of armor to get, especially once the patch hits and cost on UB is lowered. Is the extra DC you get, what, once every 20 seconds or so, worth it?

 

tedv

I don't believe this was ever a question, but someone crunched the math on it one page back. Short answer:

Yes.

Long Answer:

Four piece bonus is roughly worth 250 to 350 attack power.

Also, with five scourge strikes every 20 seconds, you average an death coil every 16 seconds, not 20.

 

Bsiddiq

I also do PS-IT-SS instead of opening with two BS's. I don't think it makes a huge difference (because the two BS's come back as death runes) but I think it gives you a second on your next SS since opening with two BS uses two global CDs whereas a SS will only use one. On the other hand, if you're doing a multiple-mob pull obviously it's a better idea to spread diseases with pestilence before getting a SS in.

 

Bloody_sorcerer

If your death rune scourge strike gets dodged or misses, you will want to immediately blood strike on the now-blood runes ASAP to get them on cooldown again. In the middle of your rotation, this will push back all following scourge strikes, but at the end, it will only push back your runic power dump, without wasting any more time than necessary on rune cooldowns.

 

Sekke

I definitely agree that our chest is our worst piece, however it seems like [Obsidian Greathelm] might be a better overall off-tier piece. Maybe I'm wrong and the waste of stats on Haste for the chest just makes it so much more worth it to get the Sapph chest.

PS: Got my [Betrayer of Humanity] last night, so stoked! Now if only that damn sigil would drop.

 

Ten

Bandit's Insignia is a better choice than Extract.

 

Sacerdos

Whenever you have a GCD gap in your rune rotation, you should try to fill it with a Death Coil or some other skill that uses a GCD.

For example, in the standard rotation, during the SS -> SS -> SS part of the rotation, there is a 1 GCD gap between the first and second SS, because you had to do 2xBS to get two death runes, ideally you want to do SS -> DC -> SS -> SS, so no GCDs are wasted.

However, this requires that you have very little latency. If you have a high-very high ping you might as well save the RP for the end of the SS cycle, since trying to fit a DC in there might really throw you off.