Just keep in mind you don't need that much hit... 263 rating (8%) is enough to cap you now.
Do you have a source for this information or are we talking about Draenei? I was under the impression 9% for melee and 17% for spell cap. It would be really nice if the hit cap now was 8% seeing as how my DK currently since at 314 hit ( 9.58% )
I am not sure if it was mentioned how much of a increase a deck of greatness would provide, but is it worth picking up over another crit trinket? And for how long do you think it will be useful to us? Basicly I have a choice to spend 3k to get the last card (7) or just wait it out.
Edit: WOW meter from our 25man patchwerk. Is my DPS on par with what it should be for gear wise? I have read through a lot of DPS rotations/priority and the like. But, I cannot break 4k+ dps on fights where other DK's can.
The melee hit cap for Death Knights is without at 8% right now. There's a lot of evidence in this thread, and plenty of proof to myself from my own personal experiences (going from a [Titansteel Destroyer] to a [The Jawbone] in the same raid putting my hit at exactly 8% and still not missing). This is Horde too, no space goats involved obviously.
The Nobles deck is more than likely our best trinket to date (and rightfully so with how much effort it can take to get it). I would imagine it will last awhile even in Ulduar. I only need one more card, but seeing as how the Faire isn't up for a couple weeks anyway, I'm in no hurry.
Strength is just really awesome for us. We get at least a 5% boost from talents (Ravenous Dead + Shadow of Death) as well as Blessing of Kings, and Rune of the Fallen Crusader.
Asking why your raid DPS doesn't compare to someone else's comes down to a lot of factors that can't be easily explained. Gear (you're logged in PvP gear), latency, trinket Gargoyle timing, and the big raid composition. Missing a single buff like 10% AP can make a big difference when you're sporting well over 5k of it.
After reading all the post I see a lot of information on dps in regards to Patchwerk where the numbers range from 4500-5200 dps. I’m curios to where these stand on the boss target dummy unbuffed. Right now with my gear I can get to 2100 dps on the target dummy without figuring in damage from pets. I was wandering where this compares to other peoples results. I tested several rotations and found that using (PS-IT-BS-BS-SS-RD-PS-IT-RD-SS-SS-RD) guaranteed that the diseases stayed up 100% of the time. This rotation put out more dps then (PS-IT-BS-BS-SS-RD-SS-SS-SS-RD).
I read a handful of these pages, way to many to read all of them x_x
I am respeccing to Unholy PvE for raiding, I typically raid as the Blood-Annihilation. Here is the build I'm going with Clicky Clicky
My major glyphs are gonna be: Icy, Scourge, and Bone Shield.
My questions are:
-What addon should I use for tracking dieases? I have Xperl but I'm really sick of it since it really doesn't track diseases in the first place but the big debuffs on target are helpful.
-My rotation will be: PS>IT>BS>BS>SS x4 with Runic Dumps mixed in which include: DC, Garg, and UB. Is there a better/different rotation for multi-targets & a better/optimal time to use UB?
-Is Oblit ever used in this build? I'm used to using it as blood spec but it seems that as unholy Oblit falls off the map completely.
My questions are:
-What addon should I use for tracking dieases? I have Xperl but I'm really sick of it since it really doesn't track diseases in the first place but the big debuffs on target are helpful.
I use Quartz to track target debuffs from myself, I think it works great. The only 'issue' is it will only display debuffs on your current target, but I don't find this to be a problem at all.
-What addon should I use for tracking dieases? I have Xperl but I'm really sick of it since it really doesn't track diseases in the first place but the big debuffs on target are helpful.
I use and love ClassTimer, especially since you can add in your own buffs to track, like chance on hit trinkets, your Rune of the Fallen Crusader proccing, etc...
Originally Posted by Maltball
-Is Oblit ever used in this build? I'm used to using it as blood spec but it seems that as unholy Oblit falls off the map completely.
Although I think people should be expected to read the whole thread, it would save everyone the time of re-reading the same damn questions and answers over and over if we would include a large summary post on the first page. Zurm, since your's is the first post and you are an active poster, I think you would be a good candidate. If you're not up for it, then I suggest we start a new thread with someone who is interested in updating the first post every few days. Things like stat weights, gear choices, talent specs, glyphs, rotations, boss-specific strategies, etc. If anyone is a former feral druid, I am imagining something like Duke's feral druid thread.
going off of these ideas here ... I decided to edit my build (which I posted just above this) to this build here
what do you guys think?
Really, this thread is not for "here is my build, what do you guys think?" unless you have a novel idea that has not been tested before. You are constructing your build based on old ideas.
The only "free" points are the one in CE and the one in Virulence, though the one in CE may also be mandatory after the next patch goes live. I could explain why this build is superior to yours, but I don't want to spoil all of the fun you'll have by reading this thread.
Edit: I am anticipating your next question will be about glyphs. Take Ghoul and SS as your majors, along with either IT or BS (personal preference).
Don't know if anyone already found out....Alot of people here are saying only DK diseases applied by the DK himself count for the special abilities healing/dmg increase. I just did some research and found out that the weapon [Blight] that BS can make causes the disease Blight that DOES count to our number of diseases: it healed me with death strike and it was consumed by obliterate.
Ofcourse it doesn't make sense to use this low level polearm but maybe there are some other ways to apply a disease other then potion of arthas (that is not usable anymore)....It would increase DPS significantly.
Although I think people should be expected to read the whole thread, it would save everyone the time of re-reading the same damn questions and answers over and over if we would include a large summary post on the first page. Zurm, since your's is the first post and you are an active poster, I think you would be a good candidate. If you're not up for it, then I suggest we start a new thread with someone who is interested in updating the first post every few days. Things like stat weights, gear choices, talent specs, glyphs, rotations, boss-specific strategies, etc. If anyone is a former feral druid, I am imagining something like Duke's feral druid thread.
I think the whole point of threads like these is not to have a title post everyone will agree on, because that's not really something people can really discuss about, which kind of is the point of threads like this. A lot of the stuff you mentioned is covered in this TTT article. I think we're here to reflect on stuff such that doesn't exactly belong to that article -- recent changes or relevant stuff, such as, "Hey guys, I just noticed that after I've been gearing up, this talent instead of that one in my build started to feel kind of redundant, perhaps we should rethink our specs".
To regress, on the topic of glyphs, isn't the ghoul glyph superior to the Bone Shield one? One extra charge is useful as is the duration but in the long run the ghoul glyph should win. Given that the Scourge Strike and Icy Touch glyphs are pretty mandatory, I don't think there's a lot of alternatives.
I think it will depend a lot on how often you are called upon to offtank / tank heroics pre-dual spec. Scourge Strike I would call mandatory, then pick 2 from Ghoul, Icy Touch, Bone Shield. DPSing mainly, go with Ghoul as number 2, pick one from the other two depending on preference. I'm currently using SS, BS, IT, as I tend to respec a fair bit to tank for folks when the usual tanks are offline/doing something else, or operate as the offtank in Naxx 10. Given dual spec, I'd run with SS, Ghoul, IT pre 4 piece t7, SS, Ghoul, BS post 4 piece bonus for DPS, and either SS, BS, IT or SS, BS, IBF for tanking. All the choices are valid, and there are benefits to each loadout, depending on playstyle preferences.
So i've been having fun with the unholy DK class. But I'm still trying to eek out every bit of DPS i can. I'm not passing the 4k mark, and with the gear I have, I just dont see why. I'm over hitcap - ~9% (not grossly, but enough that I could gem up a little more str if really necessary).
My rotation is the normal PS->IT->BS->BS->SS->UB (dump1) then SS->SS->DC->SS->DC->DC / BS->BS->SS->DC->SS->SS and keep SS any time it comes up unless diseases are about to run out. I'm pretty focused on my SS since I have my Relic, 4 pc and SS glyph.
I keep gargoyle up as much as possible, and especially if BL is ready to rock from the shammy crew. And always make sure UB is running even when gargoyle is rolling (I just UB after 2 SS, then push SS and either another SS or BS/BS which keeps things runnin smoothly) If there is space to push a DC in there without sacrificing my garg i'll do it and I keep my pet beating up on em as well + the pet glyph.
From what I have read all around, the rotation seems pretty standard, and im using the 17/0/54 build with points in NotD for ensure I have a pet ready to roll (WTB glyph of No damn corpse dust PST)
Any extra use from blood tap? I never use oblit, I've looked at boiling, but seemed like the return was just useless versus keeping BS/BS -> SS running.
So i've been having fun with the unholy DK class. But I'm still trying to eek out every bit of DPS i can. I'm not passing the 4k mark, and with the gear I have, I just dont see why. I'm over hitcap - ~9% (not grossly, but enough that I could gem up a little more str if really necessary).
My rotation is the normal PS->IT->BS->BS->SS->UB (dump1) then SS->SS->DC->SS->DC->DC / BS->BS->SS->DC->SS->SS and keep SS any time it comes up unless diseases are about to run out. I'm pretty focused on my SS since I have my Relic, 4 pc and SS glyph.
I keep gargoyle up as much as possible, and especially if BL is ready to rock from the shammy crew. And always make sure UB is running even when gargoyle is rolling (I just UB after 2 SS, then push SS and either another SS or BS/BS which keeps things runnin smoothly) If there is space to push a DC in there without sacrificing my garg i'll do it and I keep my pet beating up on em as well + the pet glyph.
From what I have read all around, the rotation seems pretty standard, and im using the 17/0/54 build with points in NotD for ensure I have a pet ready to roll (WTB glyph of No damn corpse dust PST)
Any extra use from blood tap? I never use oblit, I've looked at boiling, but seemed like the return was just useless versus keeping BS/BS -> SS running.
Thx
--Dom
Do you run recount in your raids? I have noticed that the most up to date recount is accurate with my DPS numbers because it registers my Ghoul and my Gargoyle. Last week I was at 5k on Patchwerk according to recount. However, that same parse through WWS showed me in the low 4000's for personal DPS. I saw your personal DPS around 3.8 and I can only assume that it's actually higher due to the WWS bug that doesn't include gargoyle and pet damage.
In 3.0.8 we get some crucial changes:
- Night of the Dead - will add 70% magic aoe avoidance for pet (imho must have for every unholy dps)
- Corpse Explosion - will offer +100% dmg compared to current patch (CE looks like will be finally usefull)
- Outbreak - will not longer offer dmg bonus for pestilence (for SS glyph user useless talent)
My question is anyone have idea how to release 2 talents from my build?
I thinked to get talents from Dirge (I have 4/5 T7), but maybe someone have better idea.
I have also one more question for theorycrafter because I'm little confused which one sigil is better for unholy:
- Sigil of Arthritic Binding (+203dmg from SS)
- Sigil of the Wild Buck (+80dmg DC)
In 3.0.8 we get some crucial changes:
- Night of the Dead - will add 70% magic aoe avoidance for pet (imho must have for every unholy dps)
- Corpse Explosion - will offer +100% dmg compared to current patch (CE looks like will be finally usefull)
- Outbreak - will not longer offer dmg bonus for pestilence (for SS glyph user useless talent)
My question is anyone have idea how to release 2 talents from my build?
I thinked to get talents from Dirge (I have 4/5 T7), but maybe someone have better idea.
Remove the point in Outbreak and 2 points from Virulence.
I use recount 3.0.3 (12/17/2008). WWS shows my pet, but who knows if its getting it correct. For logging, I use loggerhead to enable my logs to pass to WWS unless you think that is the issue. If i enable pets, WWS will show them, but who knows. Most of what I was referring to however was the WWS parses.
If my rotation sounds decent, build is correct, glyphs on par, then I need to figure out what i'm doin wrong here simply because there isnt a lot of gear left that I could possibly get, so it has to be something I am getting wrong myself.
--Edit
I can only assume that it's actually higher due to the WWS bug that doesn't include gargoyle and pet damage.
I'll have to pay more attention to recount's logs vs wws and see if there is a diff going on there.
I run Glyph of Scourge Strike, Icy Touch, and Ghoul.
Unless you're asked to offtank a lot then I really don't see it being worth it, especially with the buff to Glyph of the Ghoul in 3.0.8 (40% strength & stam vs. just 20% strength, no stam)
The extra charge on Bone Shield is nice but I find myself rarely using it, and in those cases an extra three seconds on it isn't commendable (see: P1 thaddius).
I find Scourge Strike and Icy Touch to be manditory. Even with how little you may use IT in a good SS glyph proc groove, it helps a lot when switching targets, or trying get RP from range (along with BB) to either keep up Gargoyle, or to spam more Death Coils.
For minors I use Horn of Winter/Blood Tap/Pestilence. All pretty much standard, the other glyphs are fairly bad. The glyph for RP on raising a Ghoul is kind of nice, but is being completely reworked in 3.0.8 to remove the Corpse Dust reagent cost. With the changes to Horn of Winter, I think I'm going to drop it for the "new" minor Ghoul glyph replacing the RP on rez one. Not having to waste a buttload of gold on Corpse Dust will be very nice both for raiding, BGs, and Arenas. There's no real variety beyond that, I almost never heal my pet, and the Corpse Explosion glyph looks gimmicky at best (I'm still not impressed by the damage from CE as it stands on the PTR).
@Dominated, for Patchwerk you use Plague Strike once and Icy Touch twice...you have 42 ticks for both diseases throughout a 3'43" fight...even with a lot of clipping on the 3 second tick timer it sounds like bad disease uptime, although I have a hard time believing you would actually let them drop so much. WWS doesn't look bugged unless you somehow used more than one Ghoul on Patchwerk. Your gear could use some tweaks (a helm with a metagem, expertise capped[6.5% dodge negation], less hit [only need 8% melee]). Fury of the Five Flights is probably a poor choice for fights where you end up having to restack it, though it's awesome for Patchwerk...
I think I found the problem. Seems its actually much better to be in blood presence versus unholy as an unholy spec'd DK. May seem rather obvious to some, but assumptions tend to yield poor performance. As for my helm, I must have been using the titan one, I use the Fire-Scorched due to the extra crit on spells and negligable differential on other stats. It eliminated my waiting on CD from timers, smoothed out my rotation, and boosted dps (for obvious reasons).
As for diseases, I rarely use IT/PS except to start because the SS glyph works very well. I'll use them if my disease doesnt hold up, but the rotation I'm using I dont seem to have that issue, and if I'll pop ERW to get an extra shot at it before going back to IT/PS.
Exp cap is something I can push for, I've been hearing something about the 3.0.8 patch and 9% hit cap, not sure where, but for some reason it was nagging me as if there were a change on the horizon. Either way, I have the gear to switch in/out to compensate, so I appreciate the feedback.
As for Fury trink, on trash and in 5 mans I still wind up with about 8-10 stacks every time i use it, and it seems to get 2 stacks per hit, so it builds up pretty quickly. So for short burst fights i can get 96-120 AP from it, or just toss on a crit trink. I'm working on my Greatness card, but its hella expensive and as nice as it is, it wont break me at the end of the day.
I'm always pushing the toon, so anything else I learn or experiment with I'll post back as well.
Yes, please DPS in Blood presence. That's 15% more damage whereas the GCD being reduced by a 1/2 second is nice in theory--all our abilities are limited by runes and runic power making it less useful.
Although I think people should be expected to read the whole thread, it would save everyone the time of re-reading the same damn questions and answers over and over if we would include a large summary post on the first page. Zurm, since your's is the first post and you are an active poster, I think you would be a good candidate. If you're not up for it, then I suggest we start a new thread with someone who is interested in updating the first post every few days. Things like stat weights, gear choices, talent specs, glyphs, rotations, boss-specific strategies, etc. If anyone is a former feral druid, I am imagining something like Duke's feral druid thread.
You do realize that there is a DPS Compendium in this very sub-forum which meets all of those specifications, and has all kinds of relevent basic data on Deathknight DPS in all specs, including Unholy...?
This has already been done. Those of you asking these basic questions need to venture outside of this thread and start reading.
To contribute something while I am in here:
Post patch, it appears that periodically blowing up and ressurecting our ghouls with Night of the Dead and Corpse Explosion will once again be somewhat viable. I don't expect it to be even remotely worth it on bosses (obviously), but on long aoe trash pulls, or in PvP, I expect the value of CE to rise slightly.
I am still hopeful that bloat issues deeper in Unholy will get a pass this push, but I doubt it will actually happen. Ebon Plague could go down to 2 points for the same effect, Crypt Fever could go to 1 point, and I really think Desecration needs to be completely retuned, made into a hamstring style single target effect, and dropped to 3 points maxmium. Similar treatment could happen to the AMS talent.
You do realize that there is a DPS Compendium in this very sub-forum which meets all of those specifications, and has all kinds of relevent basic data on Deathknight DPS in all specs, including Unholy...?
Just to clarify for the masses of people who don't know to do basic searches, the compendium has been moved to the TTT.
Do you have a source for this information or are we talking about Draenei? I was under the impression 9% for melee and 17% for spell cap. It would be really nice if the hit cap now was 8% seeing as how my DK currently since at 314 hit ( 9.58% )
There is a thread on this topic in the non-class specific Class Mechanics forum. Also, last night I whacked on the boss level target dummy for over 1800 white hits. I had 8.26% +hit and had no misses during that time. With a 9% expected miss rate, I would expect to see just over 13 misses. I understand that I could have just been lucky, but there is mounting evidence that the white hit cap for main hand or 2H is 8%.
12/19/08, 2:06 PM
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