AlexanderYoshi

Does anyone have a loot-rank sheet link based on Unholy DPS stats?

 

Mooncrow

It's about a 1700 dps increase during the 40 seconds that they're are up; assuming a fully debuffed boss. However, as far as I can tell, they do not seem to be affected by normal raid buffs, at least according to the log file. I will confirm the earlier reports that their taunting behavior seems to be different on raid bosses. With my guild's consent, last night I tried using them on Gluth, Baron Rivendare, Instructor, etc. At no time did they ever take aggro, even for a second.

 

Torrential

I'm somewhat confused as to what kills the army.

I popped them on Loken for laughs and when we ran away for the Nova some of our group got caught too far away for too long because nova didn't kill any of the army. So he stayed put beating on them.

Then on Sapph my army got rofflstomped in short order. After Loken I'd started thinking they might be AoE immune or something, but Sapph seems to have gotten rid of that idea.

 

Mooncrow

I've never popped them on Loken, so maybe something about that fight is different; but in general I've noticed that they die pretty easily to any aoe. Timing them is key, just like in gargoyle usage.

 

bosox2k1

For the record, my sigil is not the emblem one. The sigil that I am wearing is from Naxx 25.
The emblem one is pretty much garbage that gets somewhat of a buff next patch.

 

crd

Here is the one I made with the tables in this thread:

loot rank link for unholy dps after hit cap

 

ge-off

Ah, you know what, it must have been fixed. I apologize for this, but as of three-ish weeks ago the scenario I stated was the case. Like I said, I had only seen it with the two [Bold Scarlet Ruby] socketed in, but the GM that replied to my ticket informed me that it was in fact all cuts of that gem, hence my mentioning it here. Just threw in another bold to my boots and it seems it's fixed now

 

Juicie

Can you post what you did with the 3 points from Ebon Plague? Currently our guild runs with me and another Unholy DK and we both fight over EP (as covered much in this thread). I was toying with the idea of trying out Frost, but the tests I did on the dummy were showing about a 150 dps decrease over Unholy. Not to mention I really enjoy the Unholy tree and the SS glyph mechanics. I was thinking if 2 Unholy DKs were in the raid one could be traditional and the other could go 21/0/50 (dropping UB and getting a point in VoTW) or 17/3/51 (keeping UB and buffing IT). The second one bothers me since you don't IT much with the SS glyph proccing. However it could be nice for those times your forced out of melee range (ie Maly, Heigan, etc).

Anyone have suggestions?

 

shed

It really doesn't matter where you put the EP points, I had put them in Virulence since I was running at 8% hit. One thing to keep in mind about your frost DPS numbers is that frost uses OB over SS which is completely physical and does 'less' if the target doesn't have a single armor debuff which it will in a raid.

 

Sekke

With the current state of DW I don't really see a point to having DKs of any other spec in a raid, except the requisite Unholy for the debuff.

 

Sacerdos

Actually there is a dual-wield build that has Ebon Plague: 0/20/51 (Icy Touch Build).

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
(and its variations)

From the WWS posted in the DW thread this DW Unholy build is on par with 0/32/39 and 0/44/27.

 

Kasac

I have a few questions comparing the spec i plan to use in comparison to the speccs I see linked and talked about.
Why does no one spec into desecration?
Is Night and Day a good talent or just kind of a mediocre talent? I do not have the army of dead spell yet so i do not know how useful it is.
Also can someone clarify what Night and Day does? I don't understand why it says your next 10 plague strikes lower he cooldown of... shouldn't it just say lowers the cooldown of... or does it not always get lowered?

 

Fugazor

Loken aoe bomb does not affect any pets for some reason.

 

Eucharion

First off, all three of these questions are better suited to the Simple Questions/Simple Answers thread, and you should tidy up your grammar; it's quite difficult to understand what you are asking.

With that said, desecration has been discussed throughout this thread, and it boils down to preference. Some feel that as keeping 100% uptime on mobility fights is impossible, and there are very few stand still and dps fights, desecration is sub par. Others feel that they get enough out of it, and the snare gives additional utility for fights like Gluth. Try it for yourself and see.

Night of the Dead is the name of the talent, and it is very useful for keeping ghoul uptime as close to 100% as possible, and even more so after 3.0.8, as it will give 70% AOE avoidance to your ghoul. The talent doesn't provide a flat reduction to the cooldown of Raise Dead/Army of the Dead, instead, using Plague Strike or Scourge Strike will reduce the cooldown. To give an example, I pop Raise Dead. Cooldown of 5 minutes starts. I DPS the boss, and each plague strike or scourge strike I cast reduce the time left by 30 seconds, so 5 minute cooldown becomes 3:57 after casting one plague strike and one scourge strike back to back.

 

guldburkan

This question should probably be added to the FAQ in the first post. (And yes, I know that I asked a question in relation to desecration, but my question was misunderstood and I didn't bother to explain my thoughts any further).

 

Shimerra

It's not really preference it's been pretty definitively proven that this is a very poor place to put talent points. At it's best with 5/5 and a 100% proc rate it isn't even a 1% increase per point and movement fights as well as the use of the SS glyph which every unholy DK should be using cause further hemorrhaging of the already small DPS gains from this talent. As a general rule of thumb its best to skip this talent.

 

Leaflock

Hmm.

Cabal is right that the common factor in all the highest scoreboard posts is that every single one of them won the RNG lottery with cooldowns/procs/crits, and they all have gargoyle as a substantial portion of their damage. Yes, there are other factors that make Unholy and DW capable of putting out absurd burst over a sub-3-minute Patchwerk fight, but the fact that a single 21-point talent can average out to 1000 dps over that duration does figure in a bit.

I think the larger point to take away is that a small sample of the highest figures ever achieved is certainly not indicative of what the "best" or "only worthwhile" spec is, or any other similar nonsense. Besides the fact that lots of guilds don't upload to that site (and/or to WWS), you might also notice that no one person's name appears twice on any of those lists, despite a spread of 300-600+ dps from #1-#10 on most of them. That's right, they only did it once, and more typically don't do that much. The highest dps you've ever done isn't anywhere near as significant as how much dps you can do consistently on every fight.

 

everwatch

Again, NO. Gargoyle is not an indicative point of reasoning to explain dps discrepancies of over 1000 points. And that is not just from WoW Meter Online. Screenshots of more than one DK doing 6k+ dps in the DW forums here exist. And these people are not even using what would be considered the optimal gear. None of them are using the 170dps 1.6 speed axes, or have all best in slot items.

Whereas we do have SS's and WWS's etc showing Unholy DK's with Betrayer of Humanity, and amazing gear, topping out in the 5k range (Recount numbers, not WWS or WMO) while DW is topping out in the 6k range.

BOTH SPECS, DW and Unholy, USE GARGOYLE. It's not like one spec has it, and the other does not. And as far as winning the RNG lottery...Unholy wins just as often as DW does. I've yet to see a SS of a Recount report of 6k+ dps from Unholy, or even seen a WWS for Unholy that beats the best WWS's for DW. And I've seen WWS's with higher than normal crit averages, etc... And even if you find one WWS...can you find multiples? DW has multiple WWS's with higher numbers than Unholy.

DW is doing more. It's fine. It's the current mechanics. And Blizzard has already posted that it's maybe not an issue (and trying to get a PC spin on the matter so people don't think thet messed up), and that an incoming patch may be nerfing it. They could simply solve the issue by changing the mechanic behind KM, and then moving HB and Gargoyle both deeper into the trees. Changes like that will likely happen over the course of time. But it is a clear and evident point already that DW is surpassing any existing spec available atm.

http://www.skeletonjack.com/

 

jayclev

I wanted some feedback on the viability of a build I saw posted on the WoWWiki.com website under DK sample builds. Whoever wrote the article stated that this 'Necromancer' unholy DPS build (0/18/53) requires you to dual wield and will generate more damage than any 2H build could ever generate! Is this possible? Does anyone have any first hand experience with this build?

Thanks.

 

Broseph

Just pointing out that either Ren "won the RNG lottery" two weeks in a row (his patchwerk numbers this week are even more impressive than last week's. See http://elitistjerks.com/1038026-post822.html), or Everwatch is right that spec (and, particularly in Ren's case, skill) have more to do with it.

Consistent numbers are emerging for DW, and they are extremely high.

 

Leaflock

1) I'm not saying Gargoyle is the point of reasoning to explain dps discrepancies. I'm saying it can do 1000 dps over the duration of a Patchwerk. I'm well aware, as I said in the post you're responding to, that there are other factors that cause DW and Unholy to excel over short burst fights.

2) Yes, I said that-- I was talking about both specs, which are the ones on the dps scoreboards most people are going crazy over. There are also a few other DK specs that do dps in line with what most others are doing, and shouldn't be discounted.

I read Ren's post in the DW thread right after making my last post, and then the one later last night with similar numbers, as well as high numbers on other bosses. Seeing some consistent performance is definitely persuasive. I've been testing it out myself, but we haven't had any raids over the holiday break-- I'm looking forward to seeing what it can do.

My main point still stands-- you don't evaluate all specs' capabilities on a small sample of the highest numbers achieved, which is what some have been doing. If it wasn't clear, I was thinking of some posts that were suggesting the only spec worth bringing to a raid was DW, which is ridiculous. It benefits the raid to have DKs of different specs (especially with the EP issue), especially if you need certain buffs. I've been raiding as Blood up to this point to provide the raid with the 10% AP buff, and it's capable of dps in line with what other top dps classes are doing (i.e. 4-5k dps)-- just not the over-the-top totals seen from a select few specs.

 

Nastrodamus

I remember seeing either on here or mmo champion that blizzard wants to make sure that 2H DPS for DK does not fall into the trap like Enh Shaman that the only viable high end way to raid would be to Dual Wield. Viable in this case meaning high end DPS only (we bring good buffs and stuff but if a RL wants a DPS monster you must DW scenario). I keep seeing information which shows some crazy DW numbers so the question is does this mean a nerf of some sort for DW or a buff of some sorts for 2H DPS or both?

 

Bloody_sorcerer

The only change I've heard that will negatively impact DW is some nerfing of gargoyle by an unknown amount ( World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Gargoyles not OP? ).

 

Lyssa

I'm not sure if you're aware of the bug with pets in WWS. Occasionally it will, rather than ghoul and gargoyle and AotD, list AMZ and "consecrated ground" as your pet. If you for instance take a look at this week's Patchwerk WWS, where I did use both ghoul and AotD, yet it's not listing either. Recount was listing 600 more dps (due to pets) than WWS is. So if you don't find WWS of high dps unholys that may very well be the cause.

Similarly you can see AMZ listed on Sapphiron, yet not the ghoul, which I know I had out as I had to revive him. (As you can see it's listing AMZ spell absorbtion as damage done by me.)

 

crimsonsentinel

DW has both ghoul and gargoyle, so it doesn't matter in that respect.