Kernunos

With the damage and duration nerf being put in today does that change the math on Gargoyle's usefulness/DPS per RP benefit? My back of the envelope math says it is getting a more than 50% damage nerf (half duration and reduction in damage per tick) says that is is now questionable at best. Any one else have thoughts on this? I already need to respec due to a pug with a bad healer (completely separate and terrible story), so if it is worth taking or should be dropped, now is the time for me to figure it out.

Arrawn

 

Solithaira

As always you need to consider whether that one point allocation will give you a greater DPS increase in any other spot. I'm not denying that the nerf to Gargoyle was huge, but you do have the ability to use additional runic power dumps during Gargoyle downtime. In addition, the Gargoyle now has AoE avoidance thus making it a more "reliable" source of damage.

In short, assuming no other major changes occur, I would still pick up the gargoyle.

 

deathbud

With all the patch stuff upcoming is this still going to be a viable build or is there going to be tweaking to were the points are spent for this build ?????

 

Kernunos

I wonder if it is worth down ranking the point to the new corpse explosion, looks like I am about to spend a bunch of gold on respecs......again.


OT question:
Also has any one else encountered problems with WWS and deathknights? I haven't been able to upload my logs for weeks. I quick scan of the boards show that people seems to be having this problem esp with unholy DKs

 

deathbud

Isn't Corpse Explosion going to be a viable source of damage so what is going to be sacrficed for that or is there even a need for that since in a Raid on boss fights there isnt a total alotment of corpse's to make go boom. so I am curious about this and what the masters of the thread might say ???

 

Orothar

I did some calculations on this earlier in the DW thread. we really really really need a pet-thread

 

• Zurm

I don't think CE is any more worth it now than before. It still requires a corpse... at best it's a gimmick for AOE trash pulls, and even then the mobs usually die pretty much at the same time.

My main worry is the viability of Unholy in general at this point. The buffs to ghoul str/hp (via glyph) and survivability, as well as the necrosis buff are certainly nice. However, the massive nerf to gargoyle (and the fix to bugged stacking of Crypt Fever and Ebon Plague) seems like a net loss for Unholy 2H. That being said, unholy 2H did have a bit of a leg up on frost/blood 2H.

 

joypunk

One was started just yesterday: Elitist Jerks Forums : Death Knights : Pet Discussion - (Garg, AotD, Ghoul)

 

deathbud

Ok so no CE got ya thats pretty much as i figured. Have to give me a chance just joined the site and I am still absobing all the DK infor you have here. Now I am using the spec that you started this threat with and I am using a mod that shows me what to throw at that time. What I am curious about is with the UHB being reduced shouldnt DC be in that cycle alot more now that you will have more RP at your disposial. The reason I ask is with the reduction of UHB and the Nerf of the Gargoyle it seems to me that logic dictates on your downtime you can maybe get off 1 or 2 DC during rune C/D pardon me if it sounds like jibberish just trying to catch up a lil

 

Bsiddiq

Unholy is still going to be fine. I'm more concerned with CF/EP not stacking...so now, 2 unholy DKs in a raid aren't as appealing. I used to drop EP and Unholy Aura to dip into 5/5 desecration because our other raiding DK had it.

I also think it just depends on the fight...I think on a patchwerk-esque fight, we're going to feel the nerf the hardest...however, with changes to NotD and the other buffs...fights where there is raid-wide damage, we see some considerable benefits.

Also, with the changes to UB...you can keep it up during gargoyle now without a problem. We'll see I guess.

 

Fugazor

CE is situational, hits for not that much and cannot crit. No thanks.

To be worth taking it would need:
- not req. corpse
- cooldown removed OR RP cost removed
- start to crit


It has been told earlier here that EP bug is not THAT bad and result in like 60-100 dps loss. So while everyone does at least 4-5k dps now it is ~2-3% damage - worthwhile but not gamebreaking.

 

estarius

Hi guys,
I'm looking at the changes and seriously... It scares me totally, I'm not even sure I want to connect my DK... My guild need a GOOD DPS, we're not in the top guild, just playing for fun but it has some inside stress for DPS in it since those at the top must always be a lot better than others to realize progression.

Pre-patch, I was running with around 2.1k DPS in Naxx 10 [we're now at Gluth]... So now I have to ask... Anyone could tell me which DPS would be the best for the guild between Retadin, Mage and 2h UH DK. (Or a list would be neat too, like UH DK 1st, Pally 2nd, Mage 2rd)

I know this might look weird in the UH DPS section, but I know that people here usually know what they are talking about so I think it was the best place to ask for.

Thanks

 

Sylari

I don't quite trust my numbers yet, but so far my unbuffed tests have shown no significant change using gargoyle over not summoning it at all ( I'm noticing about 30 more DPS on my tests with gargoyle or about 1.7% .. but it's also within the margin of error )

 

Ashur25

I'm not sure what scares you about the changes. Only DW is really hurt by the changes, Unholy gets a lot of buffs to compensate for the Gargoyle nerf. If you're happy now with your DK you will most likely be happy after patch

Edit: Looking at your gear, the lack of enchants on your gear is probably a bigger nerf to your dps than the nerfs, you might wanna do something about that if your THAT concerned about dps

 

Sylari

Necrosis and UB to 40 RP definitely don't make up for the gargoyle nerf, so far my numbers put the gargoyle at about 350 DPS when he's up, and my tests have been so close I can't figure out if he's worth summoning or not.

 

slant

Three points in BCB (+15% white damage assuming 2 diseases, more with 3) is better than three in necrosis (+12% white damage). Do 2H DPS DKs really take necrosis in 3.0.8? I expect that to be a zero sum change. The UB cost buff is pretty minor spread across 20 seconds, the gargoyle nerf is absolutely huge, and the new NoTD avoidance is fantastic in raid encounters. WWS is the ultimate decider, but I would expect 2H unholy DPS to be functionally unchanged-- and less reliant upon cooldowns. Which is a good thing.

 

Tojara

Keep in mind that Gargoyle only lasts 30 seconds now, which means that we have an additional 30 seconds of death coils or unholy blights that we would have to neglect when it was a 60 second duration. It most certainly is still a nerf, but I don't think it's a major nerf.

An additional 20% strength gain to the ghoul, necrosis buffed to 20% and unholy blight costing a mere 40 runic power probably more then makes up for the crypt fever/ebon plague stacking.

While I don't have any math to prove it we most likely lost a modest amount of DPS but nothing too major. Two handed unholy will most likely still be superior to the other two handed builds (at this level of gear). Overall our DPS has probably increased on the majority of encounters considering our ghoul gains 40% more stamina, summons quicker and NoTD provides 70% AoE reduction.

 

Ashur25

You're missing the Ghoul glyph buff, Icy touch glyph buff(though very minor) and the pet avoidance buff though. Plus he doesn't have the heigan sigil which makes the new venture coin sigil a major buff for him too.

Overall his dps may go down a little on patchwerk, but will be about even on other fights und may even go up on fight with lots of aoe dmage

 

Orothar

Have you even read my post about the gargoyle nerf on this very same page? It calculates the loss of dps including the Deathcoil potential damage. The fact that the goyle only lasts 30 sec does not mean you get extra dps from Deathcoils in the other 30 sec the goyle would be up. The goyle did more dps then DCs did for the same amount of RP.

Overall gargoyle nerf = 59% (or 234 dps for Ren's WWS)

Nothing personal, but it would be nice if people at least read the earlier posted stuff on the same page.

 

deathbud

Another question the build i have now is the build that started this thread 17/0/54 is there any changes I should make in were my point are at since the patch has gone live ??????? I mean the post from the hebrew hammer page 1 btw

 

Ashur25

Short answer: no

There are no real changes in the gameplay of unholy besides Gargoyle duration cut in half und pets living longer

 

estarius

I dont use the build proposed by this thread because imo there are some talents really useless for DPS like unholy presence... Maybe you could take a look at all our talents and see if you can get some more benefits

 

Tojara

I was well aware that it was a DPS nerf as I stated multiple times in my post. I was simply reiterating the fact that while Gargoyle increased our DPS by quite a bit (pre nerf and it's still worthwhile to use it now) people still need to take into account the loss of death coils, which a lot of people don't think of. Obviously you don't get extra DPS from the Deathcoils in the other 30 seconds the Gargoyle was up as Death Coil is still inferior to Gargoyle strike.

My post was basically a summary of all of the buffs/nerfs from a two handed unholy perspective, merely stating that 'combined' we didn't lose a vast amount of DPS. Maybe I should have clarified my initial statement in regards to Gargoyle not being a major nerf because it most certainly is to that specific ability. Collectively though it's not like our DPS dropped by 400-500.

I take it you mean Unholy Aura?

While it's true on a fight like Patchwerk (with zero movement) that it has literally zero efffect, that most certainly doesn't make the talent as a while useless. The movement speed (which applies to the entire raid) adds quite a bit of DPS on a fight which has quite a bit a movement (there are numbers in this thread somewhere). Raid dps is much more important then personal DPS and there is no other talent configuration for two handed unholy that offers more raid dps then dumping two points elsewhere.

 

bosox2k1

Do you mean unholy aura? If that's the case, maybe you should go 20-30 pages back and read that data supporting unholy aura in raids and its DPS benefit.

 

Shimerra

Thank you for this new and exciting information and a detailed explanation of your revolutionary thoughts. It's been discussed, I recommend you actually read the thread.