Keep in mind that they're not always "AP equivalents," but more typically relative stat weights. They can be derived from the spreadsheets and rawr.

The 2.4 number didn't account for ghoul scaling with talents, and I saw 2.8 used as the value for strength when accounting for the ghoul (I think earlier in this thread). The recent buff to Glyph of the Ghoul is probably what pushed it up to 3.

So I interpret this to mean that the spreadsheets/rawr have the formulas for stats/ratings -> AP/hit%/crit% etc. and AP coefficients for spells and abilities coded into them, and somebody ran through a bunch of tests with each stat as an independent variable to see how it affected DPS relative to raw AP rating? That would make sense.

He mentioned it...

Right, he did mention the places he grabbed the numbers from, but I was asking how you and others originally derived them.

I checked through the spreadsheet thread and didn't see any mention of it, nor could I find it in this thread (though admittedly I have only read about 3/4 of the 47 pages)

Lots of formulas, Macros to add each stat independently, comparison of dps increase per point spent, hours and hours of work in excel, etc.

If you've seen Doc's sheet you've seen a visual representation of how those numbers and those like it have come to be. Some are even made from simulators. What I'm trying to tell you is that if you want to know where the numbers come from you need to take a detailed look at at least one sheet/sim and understand the math behind it (the formulas within the cells). That math is far too large to fit into a neat package that would translate well into text on a forum.

In the mean time, rest assured there are quite a few of us coming up with similar numbers. Also, please remember that these numbers change depending on the buffs you have, the spec you choose and the gear you are wearing (not just hit/exp caps).

Okay, this is exactly what I wanted to know, and was assuming based on the first reply. Thanks!

Yeah, I realize that things change relative to your spec. This is the main reason I wanted to get a better handle on things, so I could have an idea of how to ballpark modify sets of numbers that I find elsewhere.

Quick question - are people using blood or unholy aspect for DPS? I know the standard is blood; but I keep seeing people saying unholy is better.

Blood for pve, Unholy for pvp.

I am using 20 Spell Pen gems for my blue slots for my pve unholy. Any infos bout it? I like it cause i see partial resists going around but I am also concerned with losing some str (pet influence on str etc etc). Sadly i havent used msbt cause the computer i play on cannot handle it haha. So I really cant see the resist changes. But i have 60 spell pen now.

*twitch*

*twitch*

I don't know which is worse, your gem choice, or your typing...

Assuming you have reached the hit cap for unholy (8%)

Gem for strength.

Always strength.

You have a socket bonus that gives crit rating and you need a blue gem?
Screw crit rating, gem for strength.

The ONLY time you would gem other then strength is to reach a meta gem. And then you should be doing a purple AP/Stam gem or something similar. Not fucking spell penetration, what the hell is wrong with you?

If he were pvp'ing that would be fine, but he states in his post "pve unholy".

Do you think I got too bad gear for 17/0/54? The World of Warcraft Armory
I was thining about this rotation, PS - IT - BS - BS - SS - UB - SS - SS - SS - Dump.

Or maybe I should go 51/13/7 instead? Yeah I know I got too much hit rating atm, and thats cause I logged out with the wrong trinket

If you want to stay 2h you better grab 4xT7 asap.

Got 58 emblems of heroism, so should I buy the gloves? Not sure if I will get that much T7.5 since there's a couple more that need them I believe. Or should I buy the plate belt for 40?

You can get belt from Nexus HC.

Spell penetration lower spell resistances of target. Almost all bosses have 0 resistances therefore making spell penetration useless for PvE.

Partial resists comes from level difference between you and boss and cannot be avoided in any way.

Bosses in WotlK (with the possible exception of Sapph) have no innate spell resistance. The resist numbers you are seeing are due to level based resistance and spell penetration cannot help you bypass that (nothing can).

See: Resistance - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft for more information.

The first page has been updated with the spell pen info, so there is no more confusion in the future (assuming people read it). I'm also writing up the presence question, since that seems to be posted a lot.

I also wanted to reiterate that gemming for hit/expertise over strength is not always a DPS gain. A lot depends on your spec, playstyle, and rotation, and it really comes down to what abilities you use most.

As a final note, I am no longer worried about 2H unholy's dps. After having played Blood, Frost, 0/32/39 DW, and 2H Unholy post-patch, I haven't seen any of these higher than 2H unholy. The worst by far was blood, while frost and DW remained somewhat competitive, but still lower.

I tried Blood. It's nice and not bad, but I doesn't stand out.
I'm still surprised, that 2h Unholy is so good. I must have made a mistake with SS in my sheet.

I'm missing Weapon DPS in this list. Any idea on what the number on that would be?

Zurm, 2 Dk's of relatively same gear are different specs. 1 is blood and the other is 32/39. And theres a 1000~ dps difference between them . They are in diff guilds so an ele shaman and/or boomkin might give the advantage to the 32/39 but even so. I cant seem to get my numbers that high. I barely hit 4k dps. I'm doing my rotation right, using DC as I can, keeping up Blight. Maybe its gear.. Betrayer and some gear swaps and finally come monday when I get Greatness but i cant seem to hit the dps I 'should' be getting

But I just don't see how Unholy can stand up to Blood or 32/39. The gear and values for each spec is pretty diverged. So maybe your numbers aren't optimal due to gear. Just my 2cents