teiglin

It's also worth pointing out that the third point in BCB has lower actual value than the first two. At a first order approximation, you're lowering the expected proc rate from 23% to 16.7%, effectively costing you a little over a quarter of your BCB damage, not a third.

 

methods

If they would increase the proc rate to 40% for 3 points it would reverse the 'real' proc rate to ~29% and still nerf DW due to lack of OH procs. That would really be more of a band-aid than anything though.

 

belmarduk

The noble's deck is, outside of Betrayer of Humanity and Sigil of Awareness, the best single slot upgrade you can get in the game. Everyone with the time and money to invest should absolutely get the deck.

 

Foxx2405

Definitely. Its worth it if you can get it. It procs every 45 seconds rock solid (it has a very very high proc chance outside of the internal cooldown)

Got the betrayer last week (won the roll vs 6 others, hooray for me), now ive only got a few things left. Most importantly Sigil of Awareness. It had better drop tomorrow, otherwise there is a big chance the DK on trial with us gets promoted before the next run. That means i have competition over an item with a crappy droprate :P
Even though he's blood he'll probably roll for it too.

 

belmarduk

Proc is 100% when the cooldown is up. It's really, really amazing. To be honest, it's going for under 10k on some servers regularly, and the darkmoon faire is NOT up right now so it's going for an extremely cheap price. If you get it before next week you should be able to find it for sub 9k, which can be farmed on a single good weekend. (I managed 5k in one day just doing quests - I'm an enchanter, so ymmv.)

 

Qrio

Update - they are now putting all the librams/relics/totems/sigils that drop from Naxx for sale for 25 badges of valor! Yes, that includes our beloved Sigil of Awareness with its horrible drop rate - 14 weeks no drop for our guild at all, and we already had 3 betrayers

 

Fugazor

That means in future relics will most likely "drop" from badges not bosses -> less RNG and less crystals -> Good.

I hope that SS not ignoring armor is bug some kind and Outbreak will be changed so we won't be forced to take it. Same with Virulence - another 3 "forced" talents. Unholy have way too many "must have" talents now compared to other trees.

Also they need to rethink Ghoul. Now that almost every spec will have one and only Unholy one will have aoe reduction is bad - it needs to be baseline, affect other pets and for sake of it bump it to 75%.

Same for AotD - 15% DK damage based on long cooldown, very situational spell - that is VERY bad. AotD should be made as tanking-only skill and DK damage should be compensated. There is similar problems with Warlocks but at least Doomguard don't have 5k HP.

 

EwokChilli

SS is ignoring armor, but it's doing 20% less than the tooltip implies. It does 20% less regardless of the armor of the target (whereas other armor strikes are reduced by 20% by lvl 60 mobs and like 35% by lvl 80 boss mobs which SS is still hitting for only 20% less on).

 

Foxx2405

As Ewok said its not reduced by armor.

But for some very weird reason it is 20% below its theoretical damage.
There is no real explanation what would be causing this, other than the fact its bugged or they changed the value down but forgot the tooltip.

 

EwokChilli

Hrm, with the changes to OB, wouldn't glyphed OB for unholy be hitting harder than SS (even with the armor redux and with SS actually doing as much as it's supposed to and EP).
(Base)(Disease)(Glyph)(Armor)(Ebon Plague)
OB (0.8)(1.375)(1.2)(.65)(1) = .858
SS (.55)(1.27)(1)(1)(1.13) = .789
I've no idea if the change of glyphs or need to spec into annihilation would make this differential a moot point or not.

 

Bullshifter

Even if they are reducing our expected SS damage by 20%, isn't that still a "slight" buff over the live version? With the added benefit of better scaling overall than the live version? Of course that's not addressing your question about OB though, outside of the fact that we currently use SS over OB even in it's current state.

 

Gumibear

Scourge Strike numbers seem to be back to where they should be (not being reduced 20%) as of last night when I logged into the PTR

EDIT: And still doing what it should be this morning too.

 

Nerub

The lost talents in the blood tree and all the modifiers you pick up for SS make OB obsolete.

 

methods

Not to mention the SS Glyph...

 

Foxx2405

In an unholy based build you also have an extra 6% crit and 30% crit damage (which with 50% crit comes down to rougly a 1.15 modifier) pushing SS back up above Ob.

Also you forgot outbreak.

 

EwokChilli

You're right, I did forget outbreak. Makes a huge difference. Ups SS to 1.026 and that doesn't even include the bonus crit/crit dmg.

 

◊ Embar

This is incorrect. It is still doing ~18% less damage, not 20% - the original 20% figure was due to me not including normalization when initially testing, but the ~18% figure has been consistent across 4 weapon/ap setups.

Link to newest set of results: http://elitistjerks.com/1133100-post590.html

On occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James Nicoll

 

Netherwind

Okay, so BCB is back to being useful...how useful is the death coil glyph now that it's 15% damage instead of 8 runic power?

A no-cooldown Ghoul Frenzy really doesn't make up for the loss of dps from that Unholy rune still, I don't have the numbers for it right now, but I figured SS was more damage than a perma-hasted pet?

Has anyone tested SS now to see if that was just a tooltip nerf and that it's the same damage? Because that might account for the damage loss we've been noticing, I can't get on the ptr right now to check out the damage though .

 

Marloc

I would assume 15% more damage is better than 1/5 cost reduction, partially because you dont have to squeeze in more coils, perhaps cheaper cols do more damage, but the cost of GCDs would make 15% dmg superior.

Fallen Crusader & Outbreak 20% iso 30% nerf are the only ones i see, its blood/frost that got the big rework sticks.

Bone shield is either up the entire fight, or it drops quickly e.g. thaddius/kelthuzad. I wouldn't say its a dps nerf atleast

 

Nerub

The new DC glyph (+15% damage) is worse than the old one (RP cost reduced to 32/+20% more DCs). But it is still better than the IT glyph or any other alternative. Outbreak got a toned down a bit too but I still fail to see how Ghoul Frenzy is worth an U or D rune, be it PvE or PvP. They should make it a 3 minute CD which buffs the Ghouls damage by 50% for 20s or something like that.

 

Tenaka

I personally hope they get rid of the whole GF thing period, or keep making it not worth it. I already have a hard enough time choosing between Epidemic, BCB, IUP, and NotD

 

Treytreyex

<Exodus> Ysondre, Downs Iron Council Hard Mode.
I figured since a lot of people are only getting to test on dummies that people might be interested in dps in an actual encounter.

Basically specced 17/0/54 with the rotation:
IT, PS, BS, BS, SS, UB, DC
IT, PS, PS, PS, SS, DC, DC
repeat

If you couldn't tell my dps ended up around 6600 on a fight with A LOT of movement.

Send me a PM for any questions

 

nerv62

can you post the exact spec and glyphs you used for that test?

 

Treytreyex

Spec and Glyphs from MMO-Champion PTR Patch 3.1.0 build 9658 Talent Calculater

Would have used Glyph of Blood Strike, Glyph of Plague Strike, and Glyph of the Ghoul if I could have gotten my hands on them

 

nerv62

how did your ghoul do with no NOTD?

and do you think glyph of BS is better than glyph of DC (15% dmg)