Was wondering the same, now that they changed Reaping again.

The biggest part of me hopes that was a mistake in the patch notes, or that they remove glyph of disease. Because i'm kind of fond on the RNG of SS glyph. It keeps unholy from becoming a drag.

Not sure if it is better though.

The question in the end is whether 1 Blood strike (because thats what you'll give up with pestilence) worth of damage each 20 seconds, is less than the damage loss of reapplying diseases.

1 BS / 20 sec < (1 SS - ( 1 IT + 1 PS)) / X sec
then
Glyph of Disease is better than Glyph of SS.

So it depends on whether or not IT+PS is a huge dps loss compared to BS. And how often you need to refresh diseases with the SS glyph.
From experience i'd say that the refreshing is once a minute on average.
In which case i doubt that Glyph of Disease is actually better.

Essentially it's an inequality comparing total damage calculated by multiplying DPS * Time spent DPS'ing for 12 agi to boots vs. Cat's Swiftness.

The variables are:

D = DPS
A = Amount of DPS gained for 1 point of Agi
T = Total time in the fight
t = Time spent moving

Because we're not comparing agi enchants, a more appropriate formula would be:

D*(1+N)(T-t) < D(T-t/1.15)

Where N is the % DPS gained from spending those 2 talent points elsewhere. Note, however, that we can drop D out entirely, so the inequality becomes

t > NT / (.15/1.15 + N)

Plugging in Pernicies' value of 1.06% increase needed as N, we get approximately:

t > .075T

So, as long as the fight is 7.5% or more movement (which is about 4 seconds per minute), two points in IUP is better than two points in Dark Conviction.

NOTE: this model assumes constant DPS when in melee and 0 DPS when not. Therefore it's not completely accurate (as damage while in melee takes a little time to spin up generally while damage from ranged is not, in fact, 0), but it's a reasonable enough approximation.

When you talk about IUP you just have in mind the movement increment, right? I understand, for the discussion of some days/weeks ago, that if I finally take IUP I should stay in Blood Presence. You're talking now about the RNG component in the Glyph of SS. Maybe if we have UF runes up in less time for Unholy Presence, we could cast more SS and the diseases will fade less. Has someone tested or calculated if it worth?

So basically "the" 3.1 unholy dps specc will be something like this , having I-UP over CE+CF and 5/5 desecration over 5/5 dark conviction

Elementh, that seems about right to me, though I'm pretty sure that BcB has more worth than Morbidity at this point, so I'd probably shift those 3 points to BcB.

This is my primary spec I raid with on the PTR. People aren't giving enough credit to IUP, my guess is only because they haven't done these Ulduar bosses or haven't read/believe my post that states every single boss (so far at least, 6/14) require a ton of movement.

With this spec, I was top DPS every attempt (2H Frost DK not far behind me) during our testing of XT-002 last night (were you watching the live stream on World of Raids? ) doing just over 7k nearly every pull, granted this encounter does have increased damaged output on some parts though. The same was true the night before when we did Ignis though as well. At this time, it is the most solid raiding spec (for Ulduar especially), in my opinion anyway.

That's very noteworthy- I'm sure experience in the actual raid content of 3.1 will continue to shake up the values of these talents. What actual percentages are you seeing from Death Coil? If we take 1.2% for BcB as a "true" value that brings its worth down significantly, to around 0.4% per point, which is back under Dark Conviction even.

I meant to screenshot Recount from last night but I kept clearing it and forgot to, but I will definitely do that tonight and post the results here. Just as a disclaimer though, tonight's testing is Kologarn, the boss with the least amount of movement out of any of the 7 that have been able to be tested by the US (other than Flame Leviathan, obviously).

Ye that was what I was saying as well. BCB diminishes in value fast when a fight involves movement.

People looking for a stand and nuke e-peen dps build should take BCB, but i'm most likely go with the build i posted earlier (which is the same as the one Elementh posted).

Since I'm still new to this, and never being that good of a mathematician, where does the 1.15 come from exactly? Is that the bonus to movement with IUP? Also where does the .85 come from?

Well so much for getting you guys some Ulduar boss Recount data.

"This evening's test of Kologarn on the US PTRs is being rescheduled due to the deployment of a new PTR build on the servers." - Source

But as soon as we're back in there testing, I'll post some info in this thread.

It is typical for DW to outperform 2h unholy on single-target benchmark fights. If you look at the top raid performance thread for single-target (Patchwerk), you'll see that 0/32/39 was pretty clearly the overall winner there.

Putting that aside, though, comparing specs against each other based on training dummies is not a good idea. Different specs react differently to raid buffs. You're also hitting 2 other dummies with your UB and HB, which in this case probably didn't mess with your numbers too much given that you did similar amounts of damage to them, but it's still sloppy testing.

Thanks. That was my first time trying to test so I'm not by any means a professional tester. So the 2h spec should perform much better in the field. I'll have to give it a go then. Thanks again.

Yes, the 1.15 is the total movement speed with IUP; we can get the difference in the amount of time spent moving by dividing the original time value for it (t) by that speed.

The .85 is actually a scrivener's error; it should actually have been .15, but I mistyped it when I was copying the value from my notes to the post. It's obtained by, in the process of isolating the variable t on one side of the equation, subtracting the value of t/1.15 from t + Nt after un-distributing t (thus 1-1/1.5 + N = .15/1.15 +N, which is what the denominator should correctly read).

I did use the correct number when I actually calculated the final result, though, so the final result is correct; I'll edit the original post with the correct number.

From my experience on the Ptr Morbidity is vastly superior to BcB due to its effect on DnD. In fights necessitating AoE this feature to Morbidity pulls so far ahead in Dps, BcB can never catch up on that with its microscopic advantage on Patchwerk-like fights.

So 5/5 Black Ice is now 10% frost and shadow. As unholy that affects around 75% of your damage (SS, DC,UB, IT, dots, necrosis; not melee, BS, or PS) . For example: 9/10/52 (but theres plenty of different ways to spend the points)

I don't have time for extensive testing, but preliminary 5 minute tests show it doing the same dmg as a more traditional 2h unholy build (3150 with both). Any math people wanna run some numbers or throw it through a spreadsheet or what not? Difficult to guess how the numbers would change with a real boss that takes overkill dmg and in a raid setting with buffs. A better investment in tier 1 frost would certainly make it more attractive.

Is 25% less threat talent necessary (crit to Blood Strike is nice, but not gamebreaking)? I know the DW build doesn't have it, so maybe 0/10/61 would work?

It's nice to see the Black Ice back to how it was in beta (might have been more, but buffing both types of magic).

Surprise surprise..

There is our 18%, just as we predicted a few weeks back.

This doesn't change much for DK atm, since its has been like this on PTR for a few weeks now.

What is point to use Glyph of Scourge Strike and Glyph of Disease?
If you get refresh by Scourge Strike, Glyph of Disease is useless if you're using Pestilence to refresh diseases then Glyph of Scourge Strike is useless. Also IIRC Glyph of Disease is major glyph.

Edit: Supid post of me, forgot disease glyph is major, ignore me.

Sigil of Awareness has also been nerfed in this (9704) PTR build:

Sigil of Awareness
Increases the base damage dealt by your Scourge Strike by 189, your Obliterate by 336, and your Death Strike by 315.

So it's 231 less base damage for Scourge Strike compared to the current live values. Also note the change in wording: the old sigil said "increases damage dealt by..." while the new one reads "increaes the base damage dealt by...". Since even the old sigil scaled with all our modifiers I assume that it is indeed just a wording change to clarify its effect.

Once the PTR came back up yesterday, I logged in and noticed I still had 3 Recount recordings of the boss XT-002 that I had not cleared from the night before. On that boss, DC was between 12%-15% (3rd highest ability below SS and melee) of my damage.

I'll post some Recount screenshots tonight after we kill Kologarn.