NeuroMedivh

Actually, my calculations were ignoring Ghoul and Gargoyle damage, as neither necrosis nor dark conviction change the contribution of those two. Also, necrosis on PTR suffers from shadow resistance, so it usually only improves your white damage by 19% instead of 20%. Lastly, white dmg is about 18% of non-ghoul dmg, not total. You are cutting crit's contribution by 25%, so you're effectively double dipping, penalizing crit in your calculations while not penalizing necrosis.

It really doesn't matter how you calculate the percentages, as long as you are calculating them relative to each other. As I said, my calculations showed crit running around .78% and necrosis running about .7%.


EDIT: I did a detailed run of the raw data (below) and discovered my original estimates were, in fact, incorrect. DC is running close to, but not quite at, the level of Necrosis, thus I have to retract my original estimates. Necrosis is running around .7% with Dark Conviction running about .68% per point. Raw math below if you are interested. This goes to show that raw data is always better than napkin theory math, which is what done me in. Leaving the original comments above intact, but I have had to change my position.

Using these numbers as a base: Unholy DPS Discussion plus looking at the raw recount data on my PTR toon:

My base crit rating with Horn of Winter is 31.65%. These numbers show necrosis hitting .7% with zero Dark Conviction, so now it's just a matter of figuring out what 5% more crit would achieve.

Scourge Strike: 259888 dmg. According to my raw data, I got 17 crits out of 56 (one dodge) for a total of 30.4%, which is a bit low but that's rng for ya. Let's figure an extra 3 hits are crits (which is what a crit rating of 36% would give) , so 20 out of 56 are crits (avg dmg 8064) and 35 are normal (avg dmg 3231) and still the one dodge, so an adjusted damage of 274365.

Melee Dmg: 158008 dmg. 29% of my hits were Glancing Blows, and only 20.4% of my hits were crits, so I'm assuming Glancing steals from crits as well as hits. So, instead of 45 hits, 27 glancings, and 19 crit (and 2 dodges), we'll assume 5% more crit adds 2 more crits while taking away two hits, for a total crit of 21/93=22.5%, which is being conservative. This gives us 43 hits (avg dmg 1503), 27 glance (avg dmg 1145) and 21 crits (avg dmg 3131) for a total of 161295.

Death Coil: 134279 total dmg. 39 hits, 11 crits, 2 misses. Not sure why the crit rate here is so low, we'll go with just adding one more crit. 38 hits (avg 2194), 12 crits (avg dmg 4430) and 2 misses for a total of 136532.

Wandering Plague: 33660 dmg (adjusted) This is a crit-only ability which triggered 55 times off of 174 dot ticks, for a total crit of 31.6%, which is spot-on. Upping that to 36.6% would give us 63 ticks (avg dmg 612) for a total of 38556.

FF and BP are unchanged, as crit affects them via WP: 57368 and 55516 respectively.

Blood Strike: 49756 total. 17 hits, 11 crits, 2 dodges, crit rate 36% (slightly low, but that's fine). A 41% crit rate would add another crit to the mix, giving 16 hits (avg 1261) and 12 crits (avg 2575) and 2 dodges for a total of 51076.

Plague Strike: 27516, adding another crit = 29199 total.

Icy Touch: 25747, lets assume this one doesn't add another crit. Numbers show a 40% crit rating (9 hits, 6 crits) and the sample size is so small, we'll just leave it as is.

BCB: 23025 Has no crits, so assuming crit doesn't affect it.

Necrosis: 30076 (won't be added in, just here for comparison).

Totals: 824763 w/o crits, 852679 with, difference of 27916. Whoops, looks like Necrosis wins out. A loser is me.

 

Enyalius

This may be a dumb post but its something that has been bothering me the last few raids so I did some numbers last night. On Patchwerk last night I had pretty bad RNG for most of my abilities and procs including my partial resist rate. I had over 20k dmg partially resisted bc everything we do in Unholy is resistible. I know its a bit odd throwing up a question about gemming slightly for spell pen since no dps has ever done it but I was thinking that part of the reason that is true was in BC you had warlock throwing COE/COS which had all the spell pen you really needed innate in the ability. Has anyone tested if pushing partial resists off or almost off the table would make a huge difference?

 

Orlgin

Spell penetration won't help. The resists are caused by the level difference and are unavoidable. For most bosses, spell penetration does absolutely nothing for you.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

Fearlezz

Partial resists in PVE got to do with your low hit rating, not spell penetration. The only boss that spell pen could be of any useon is Saphiron (frost resistance), and even then Curse of Elements is all that is needed. Forget about spell pen in PVE, it is USELESS.

 

Enyalius

I am currently over spell hit cap by like a percentage point in a raid. I figured taht may be true but wanted more information before I tested. Stupid RNG hatred last night I guess.

 

Obtain

Hey guys, I've got a pretty simple question you all can probably help me out with.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Here is my armory (if it hasn't updated yet, I now have the iLvL 226 Malygos neck)

As you can see I'm currently specced 51/0/20 diseaseless blood and it's been working out alright for me. I'd love to go back to 17/0/54 which is what I was playing before, but it seems without Awareness (which Heigen won't drop because he is rude) it would be a waste, because I wouldn't be using either attack benefiting (however little) from my Sigil.

My guild is working towards 3D at the moment, as we haven't done it as a guild yet. A few loners have the title from previously, but whatever. Basically we're at the point where we're wiping with Shad at 20%, which is damn close to the breaking point where we win.

My basic question is, without Awareness, should I spec back to 17/0/54 to get greater mobile DPS out of myself? If I move well and don't need to dodge dozens of voids due to unlucky spawns, I usually come out at around 4000-4250 DPS on 3D 25. Do you think I would see an increase if I specced the cookie cutter unholy build to keep the deeps going while I'm running around like a maniac? There's no doubt diseaseless blood takes an enormous hit from me moving around.

In before wall of text crits you etc etc...

Also our strategy for the fight is as follows. We burn personal cooldowns to down Tene quickly, and he usually dies as Shadron is landing. Late tonight we were having mages aoe the whelps from Tene as other ranged and melee went to work on Shadron, with us blowing Bloodlust at this time. It just seems that either we're not killing him quick enough, or there's an error with the rotation on cooldowns to keep our DK tank alive on Sarth with both Shad and Vesp up. We had two pallies do a slight respec to redirect damage onto themselves while they bubble for the raid, and that helped a little, but are there any other obvious flaws in this that someone can point out?

Sorry for the novel, but I'm not validated to post new threads at the moment (and it would be flamed anyway).

Thanks!

 

NeuroMedivh

Well, fortunately in 3.1 you can buy the Sigil of Awareness for 25 Badges of Valor, and since all signs point towards 3.1 going live next Tuesday (the 14th) you should be able to pick it up and respec accordingly.

 

teiglin

While it is correct that spell pen is useless in pve outside of Sapphiron, spell hit does _not_ affect partial resists. All spells can be "yellow" resisted by enemies of any level even with zero resistance to that school. As Orlgin noted, bosses will resist more of your spells than mobs/players of equal level.

I've done Sarth25+3 as diseaseless blood with no problems, though I was always dual-wield when we learned it, so I can't say too definitively what would be best for you here, but here are two points I think you should consider.

First, are you the only DK in raid? Not having EP is pretty detrimental to your AoE dps, meaning that you're gonna be wasting a lot more time on whelps without it. If you have another DK providing EP, no problem there. When our unholy DK wasn't in the raid, I'd always respec for it.

Second, and this is general advice, I can't see why you're staggering personal cooldowns and lust. Your raid is just sacrificing overall DPS that way; cooldowns like DRW and Gargoyle are hugely benefited by lust, and I believe the same is true for most classes. We usually just wait for a favorable flame wave and then pop it along with all our cooldowns. It's probably better used on Shadron since sometimes Tenebron is dead before Shadron lands, at least for us, plus the healing gets more intense and the lust is good for healers too.

 

zagor

Partial resists in PVE against bosses have nothing to do with hit rating. The reason is a player's weapon skill, which can never be equal to boss' +3lvls defense skill. Right?

 

worseone

It is indeed weapon skill and not hit rating that partial resists are based off of, otherwise hit rating would be more valuable past the respective caps.

zurm explains here:
Unholy DPS Discussion

 

Obtain

Tonight we had me, an Unholy 2H, a DW Frost/Unholy, and our Sarth tank who was a DK.

So I'd assume the Unholy DK had EP. But I've specced 17/0/54 now and have it so either way it won't be a problem now

I think it will drop Thursday night. Hopefully D:

 

Fyrestryke

I've seen all sorts of math discussing dropping points from unholy talents to make room for Ghoul Frenzy...Has anyone done the math on dropping points from Bladded Armor instead? Seems like it would be the lesser evil over dumping a point from Necrosis, which seems to be the concensus favorite for point dropping since the double dipping was removed.
I appologize if anyone has already done this comparrison, but I looked back several pages and couldn't find anything on it.

 

NeuroMedivh

Bladed Armor is too good to drop points in. I have 14k armor unbuffed, so every point in BA increases my AP by 77, which is 1.8% of my total AP. 5 points for 9% more AP is insanely good.

 

halfpint

One thing about bladed armor is armor values are not going to scale that well. At the end of ulduar, you'll pick up probably 1-2k armor (rough and probably overly positive estimate), which only increases the value by less than 10 ap per talent point . It is still a good talent. It just devalues itself as we go into higher tiers, since armor values won't increase as much as the other stats on the gear will.

Looking at the t7 - t8 chest piece we gain 50 armor (so 1.4 AP contribution from 5/5 bladed armor) versus the 30 str upgrade (60 ap). More than likely you'll see the 9% contribution that you calculated drop down to 5% or 6%.

I am not advocating dropping bladed armor, its still a dps boost. Just keep it in mind when making talent choices. If it came down to 1 point in bladed armor (thus going 4/5 on the talent) and 1 point for ghoul frenzy. I'd take ghoul frenzy, the healing will go a long ways at keeping the pet alive and the ghoul scales better than armor values will.

 

seraphthrone

You are potentially comparing Bladed Armor with Black Ice. Considering not all damage done is contributed by AP(namely base damage), 9% AP might be inferior than 10% spell damage.

Although you might also be looking at possibly 4% weapon damage from 2h Specialization + 5% crit from Dark Conviction vs 4% damage from Desecration + 3% crit from Annihilation.

So you are looking at this blood spec vs this frost spec.

Edit: rephrase

 

Jarvis

I´ve got a question: Is there anyone on the Test Realms, who is using the Glyphe of Unholy Blight? My idea is using this Glyphe instead of Dark Death. You can cast more Deathcoils (about 25%) without loosing Unholy Blight. 125% Dethcoils should be better than 100% Deathcoils with 115% DMG.

 

Foxx2405

Not until you drop 4xT7. Which probably isn't before Icecrown by how stuff is looking now.

Math on it is a few pages back.

[e]: Here it is

 

Hemfive

Yeah but no reason to take it anymore according to what someone said some pages ago.

OLD Sigil of Awareness VS NEW Sigil of Awareness

Unholy does not use Oblit or DS in rotation so you have only:
OLD --> [Scourge Strike + 420] VS [Scourge Strike + 189] <-- NEW

 

Foxx2405

If you read the other posts as well you'd have read that awareness is still the best:
Here

Also, can anyone confirm that the current Sigil is indeed added as base damage and not after modifiers ?

 

Qrio

Jumping in the discussion about the Sigil

So it was not nerfed, it actually never provided as much bonus damage as it was written in the tooltip. Same goes for Sigil of Arthritic Binding

Don't forget that base damage will get all the modifiers, so in practice it will be close to what the tooltip says now.

In all simulations I have recently run, and also like in all the theorycrafting Methods & others here have done, Sigil of Awareness is the best. There is really no reason not to get it (if you still don't have it, like me).

I'm looking forward to getting it with badges, because after 20 weeks of killing Heigan on my DK + 2 weeks on my druid (& Gluth, but I get contradicting reports about whether it actually drops there), I have never seen it drop. Not a single one.

Remember everything, forget nothing!

 

Fugazor

X - base damage
Y - modifiers
Z - bonus damage

If added after modifiers:
(X * Y) + Z

If added before modifiers:
(X + Z) * Y

From common sense we have:
(X + Z) * Y > (X * Y) + Z

Also note that with 3.1 "Y" will be much bigger due to new system of scaling with disease.


Only damage that is NOT increased by AP comes from Ghoul and Army of the Dead.

 

Foxx2405

True.

If I get blizzard's comment right, then currently it adds 420 damage AFTER modifiers, because that confuses people they changed the tooltip, so that with 3.1 it should still add 420 damage after modifiers.

At least that seems logic.

The reason for this change is mostly because paladins whined about their libram only adding 100 something damage. But that was most likely BEFORE modifiers.

This is just a shot in the dark, but would make sense. I very much doubt that the 3 sigils blizzard originally created would contain such a huge error in item stat that it gave 420 damage before modifiers.

So if i understand it right, than pre-3.1 the tooltip states that "Z" after modifiers adds 420 damage.
And post 3.1 the tooltip states that "Z" before modifiers adds 189 which equals 420 damage if you count all the modifiers.
Makes sense since SS gets way more modifier bonuses as Obliterate and Death Strike.

Which frankly doesn't seem to far off:

189 * EP * RoR * Diseases * Outbreak * Black Ice

189 * 1.13 * 1.1 * 1.33 * 1.20 * 1.1 = 412 damage

I doubt thats coincidence

I think his comment was aimed at someone who semi-claimed that 10% more AP (from bladed armor) equals to 10% more dps. Which isn't true.

 

vtspth

With the impending patch I figured I'd try and get caught up with 'the new hotness' come 3.1 so.....

Am I correct in saying that Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft is the appropriate 0/10/61? I tried looking through the thread so I wasn't double posting but I couldn't find it. Also would it be wise to take 1 point out of Morbidity and NoTD and put those 2 into Butchery making 2/10/59 ? Thanks ^^

 

Ashur25

No you didn't take Master of Ghouls, congrats you just missed out on ~10% of your damage :P

Take one point out of Morbidity or Necrosis and put it into MoG plus maybe another point into Ghoul Frenzy.

And no it wouldn't be worth it, Butchery is a very very bad talent, you'd lose quite a bit of dps, plus you can't take MoG then

 

Grindit

This may be a bit off topic, but has anyone tested whether the new changes to haste would make potion of speed a better potion to use over insane strength potion? Looking through most of my parses, white swings and necrosis are a large part of my dps. Just wondering which potion DKs should be stocking up on.