Sekke

Assuming you have points in Blood for Bladed Armor, Indestructible Potions are better than Insane Strength or Potion of Speed. However, it would be nice to know the optimal choice for the 0/10/61 spec.

Il dolce far niente.

 

• frmorrison

The issue with that is you don't know when the server is going to check your armor to update Bladed Armor (I recall it being every 15-30 seconds).

Haste will remain the best potion for dps.

DK - Ashbane Failure is the condiment that gives success its flavor.

 

Qira

As far as I know you can force the server to recompute the Bladed Armor AP by swapping out a piece of gear, including a weapon. If you're potting on the pull, then there's no cost to this. And then you can subsequently exploit the bug by retaining the benefit of the potion some time after the effect was supposed to wear off.

 

david0925

Assuming the recalculation is constant, does it matter when it calculates? The loss time you have by missing the first check-mark will be made up by having it up at the fifth check mark, won't it?

Maniq is my hero

 

DdarkDdemon

He means that if you the recalculation happens before and after using the item, but not during.
And in this situation you won't get any bonus ap at all.

 

Qrio

Hm, correct me if I'm wrong, but in order to have the situation above you described, you have to have server refreshes more than 2 minutes apart.

I.e. if it refreshes every 30 sec. let's say, in the 2 minute span of an Idestructible potion you will have 4 checks.

For example: 0:00 you drink indestructible potion, 0:10 (for the sake of an example) server checks & updates your armor & ap respectively, 0:40 server checks & updates, 1:10 server checks & updates, 1:40 server checks & updates, 2:10 server checks & updates (at which point your potion is no longer active, and you lose the bonus). This gives you 2 minutes of AP boost with the potion.

Same thing happens when the update intervals are below 30 seconds and all the way up to 2minutes. If the update interval is > 2 minutes, then you can have the situation when you don't notice the ap boost at all.

Sound logical?

Remember everything, forget nothing!

 

Kal Choedan

Sure, but usually it is also important to ensure that your potion buff coincides with other buffs on you - for example, bloodlust/heroism, trinkets, or timing the usage of your Gargoyle - or more often, a combination of all of these. Having to wait up to 30s after quaffing your potion for it's buff to "kick in" will severely mess this up.

Given the difference in DPS between these potions is not that huge, being able to control exactly when you get the buff is much more important a factor. Speed is going to remain a better choice than the alternatives for now.

 

Amaurea

I posted a few pages back in regards to what the current going spec choices were for top dps, someone mentioned to look back a couple pages which I did.

What I found was only the pre and post Uld raiding spec, but I seem to remember someone mentioning other spec choices for pre Uld. Also, in the pre-Uld spec it does not have MoG or GF, and I seem to recall someone saying that these are needed talents or it would be considered a dps loss.

Can anyone confirm this? Or if the spec that I listed is in fact the wrong one. There is so much talk going on for the math, that the spec's are getting lost so many pages back that they are hard to find and nothing has been changed obviously on the front page.

 

Ashur25

12/0/59 and 0/10/61 are the two top dps specs for unholy come 3.1, where the latter is better suited for having ulduar gear while the former is better before you're decked out in ulduar gear. Glyphs are ghoul, SS and Dark Death for both

The only variable is Ghoul Frenzy, if your ghoul can survive without it (meaning the heal) then it's a (slight)dps loss and you should put that point into Necrosis, if your ghoul dies constantly and the heal from GF would save him then that talent point is a must have. Since Ulduar seems to have a lot of aoe damage taking it is probably a good idea

Edit: You also want to keep 4pcT7 as breaking it is always a downgrade

 

Kal Choedan

Caveat - Dark Death if you have 4pcT7, Unholy Blight if you don't, math was a few pages back.

 

Ashur25

True, but you don't want to replace 4pcT7 before 3.2 or 3.3 anyway, so ...

 

Bullshifter

What would our "rotation" end up looking like if we have to work Ghoul Frenzy in? Or would it end up being more of an "as needed" type ability if the ghoul needs healing, probably coupled with Blood Tap so you can activate a Death Rune for use with it on demand?

 

Amaurea

Ah k tyvm, I can see where the difference in the two specs are for the 12/0/59 build. Heck, the spec I posted from what I could find didn't even have morbidity.

As for my ghoul dying, it really depends on the fight atm. When our resto shaman are at a raid they are very cool in keeping chain heals going through him.

 

Sekke

If you pot before the pull there's no reason this won't work. And if you know beforehand when BL/Hero will pop (some guilds do it right away, some wait for 35% for executes, or if the fight has a big phase change that requires some burst DPS) it's pretty easy to time your pot to coincide with that and not really lose out on anything.

That said, maybe a case for something like Indestructible Pot before pull and Str pot for cooldowns would be the best way to go?

EDIT: To avoid a double-post I'll just ask my question in this one.

I might have missed it, but is there a chance that BB will outscale BS on single targets at some point? Black Ice seems like the perfect talent to make this a reality, and with BB dealing damage even without diseases in 3.1 it seems like a no-brainer for AOE situations, unless BS just deals that much more damage.

Il dolce far niente.

 

Tenemit

Are you sure about this? my numbers show that 10/61 does 1.8% more damage than 12/0/59 with naxx gear

 

Fugazor

Use with BT - but mind that Bone Shield refresh have priority. Other than that use GF + IT only if Ghoul is in big trouble as doing it will lower your dps.

 

WhiteMoose

Possibly, but BB don't convert Blood Runes to Death Runes in 3.1. So, it won't be used anyway. Other then in AoE situations of course.

 

Foxx2405

I guess they are fairly close right from the get go.

I'm seriously thinking of starting out with 10/61.

 

Qrio

In my experience, 0/10/61 has never been below 12/0/59 with all the tests i have done - both on PTR, and using the sim by Kahorie, even in Naxx gear. They are so close to each other, that most likely I will start with 0/10/61.

Remember everything, forget nothing!

 

methods

Even though I've seen the same in theory I think the threat cushion in 12/0/59 shouldn't be ignored. If you play like me where every possible waking moment is spent DPSing then you may die a bit more (thus a dps loss). I sort of miss threat management though so it could be fun anyway.

 

Qrio

Threat is my only consideration for 12/0/59 build as well.
I will see how it goes in the early raids and then decide on which spec to actually use, however so far in the raids I have been I have never been able to come even close to pulling aggro from the tanks (most likely due to the -threat talent). If I see serious issues of threat management, I will revert to 12/0/59.

Remember everything, forget nothing!

 

Foxx2405

Yea i think i'll do the same

Death Knights seem to have a build in threat reduction of 80% threat without the talent (blood / unholy presence only of course) as well.

I've tried dps without subversion a few times, and i can't say that i was anymore at risk than with.
Personally i think its a bit of a shame that threat management is totally out of the picture, i hope they bring it back. And in that case we might have to rethink our builds.

 

shopshopshop

Considering the rampant success of 32/39 and similar builds on live I think it's perfectly possible to stay away from the top of the aggro list without points in Subversion, unless your tank is bad at building threat.

 

methods

How early can you drop DnD on an AoE pull is my question. Single target bosses wern't really what I was talking about.

 

Syrvantez

In my experience when I drop DnD, I'm usually at a significant range as our tanks are very fast at chain pulling. I drop it as soon as I am within the range to drop it, even if the tanks do not have aggro on the mobs as our tanks are good at picking up the adds. If we are in tight quarters and I'm worried about aggro, I pop VB, IBF, or some other appropriate cd to survive in the event that I pull aggro for a moment.

Overall if your tanks are solid you will not have issues with aggro, simple as that. Even at extreme dps outputs and oblit/DS crit chains we still don't come close to having the threat output of other classes (mage, warrior, etc) and if your raid comp is solid, you should almost never be the first to pull aggro, even if you're top 5 on damage.