Nethris

I think that that change was canceled when they found and fixed the bug that was making the 10% damage bonus from tundra stalker not work, and found that frost damage was pretty decent without further changes after that bugfix. Off the top of my head though, FS is getting 30% from the increase to all frost damage, another 10% on diseased targets from the first tier talent, and 45% increased crit bonus damage that death coil doesn't, and OB gets a much higher crit rate that SS does, so the fact that those two abilities hit harder than the unholy counterparts doesn't seem that surprising.

I believe Dr_AllCOM3 did in fact mean DW unholy, as he mentioned the standard trispec (DW) spec afterwards - I assume he meant an unholy/blood DW spec, and that it turns out that HB and the DW spec talent in frost aren't worth losing the deep unholy talents, though seeing the exact unholy DW spec in question would be interesting.

 

Broseph

Necrosis seems to benefit from all of our other modifiers as well -- blood presence, rage of rivendare, bone shield, etc. Looking at WWS parses in this thread, it comes closer to 13% of autoattack damage. Its theoretical maximum (with Desecration) is 1.1*1.15*1.13*1.02*1.05 = .153 of autoattack damage, so after partial resists, 13% sounds about right. Yes, it's a very strong talent. And on a note unrelated to DPS, you should check out how much it adds to Rune Strike while leveling or pvping...

I have a question for the group. I have noticed several DK tailors -- I am thinking about choosing tailoring myself. Can any DK tailor start the discussion on Swordguard Embroidery (chance on melee hit 300 AP for 15 seconds) versus Lightweave (chance on spell cast to do 1000-1200 holy damage)?

I have read there's a 45 second internal cooldown on lightweave. This would give it about six procs in a five minute fight. I would like someone to test whether it benefits from our multipliers. Assuming no desecration, it would hit for 1.1*1.15*1.13*1.02 = 1.46 times the listed value, or 1601 average, non-crit. That's a 32 DPS increase in a five minute fight if it never crits once (can it crit?).

Things we should learn about Swordguard -- what is its internal cooldown? wowhead lists a 25% chance to proc, so once we know its cooldown we can start modeling it. How would 300 AP with, say, 25% uptime compare to Lightweave?

 

• Ren

Would it be this 15/0/56? Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft I'm now very interested in trying it out.

 

Kintaru

If the above spec is the unholy DW spec mentioned, how does not having Nerves of Cold Steel in the frost tree, affect your dps DWing? Are the other talents just too valuble to grab this?

 

dr_AllCOM3

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=121417000000
but it isn't overwhelming anymore, just competitive and almost on par. BCB with three diseases is nice. I made some corrections to my sheet. Seems like DW is not gimp.

Doc's PvE Spreadsheet
http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t38534-dps_spreadsheets/

 

• Ren

Did you test with Fallen Crusader x 2 or Cinderglacier offhand?

 

Ommar

coming from an enhancement shaman that is used to dual wielding:
Wouldn't this spec benefit dual wielding more

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=121417000000

pros and cons against dr_allcoms spec:
Pros:
1.Haste bonus for more auto attack critical hits,necrosis damage,blood caked blade procs
2.Increased frost damage
3. +2% crit chance to melee special abilities(plague strike,scourge stike,blood strike)

Cons:
1. -7% blood strike chance compared to my spec
2. More threat
3.Less runic power generation
4.No ap bonus from armour

Currently I am using a 2 hander with standard 17/0/54 spec and it's quite satisfying,but the necrosis and blood caked blade(watered down windfury with no hidden cooldown proccing slow main hand) keeps me intrested in knowing weather dual wielding will match 2 hander dps


P.S. anything about which runic weapon imbue has more benefit to unholy?

 

c0nscript

So you can have one 1 self-controlled Ghoul Pet and an unlimited amount (If using NotD) of human-controlled ghouls?

Or can you have an unlimited amount of both?

 

Kambing

It looks like 1 pet, 1 human is the limit. During Heigan last night, I was chain ghouling two people that died and they told me that their ghoul died prematurely, seemingly whenever I casted ghoul on the other person.

 

Strnad

So unholy COULD be a viable raid DPS spec? Whats a good split to use? I am currently a 71 Unholy/Frost Death Knight sitting at a 0/9/53 spec. I really want to stay Unholy/Frost, just not sure exactly how to split points. Guild says blood is best for raiding, but the way I see it, Unholy seems to have more DPS potential...I usually wind up beating Blood specs on the DPS/overall damage chart.

 

c0nscript

I ran a 10-man Patchwerk last night and did 2600 DPS as Unholy. 17/0/54

Unfortunately, the raid leader didn't have a WWS report so I couldn't post it today.

 

Kaelith

Unholy is indeed a viable spec. Here is a link to a WWS from our 25 man Patchwerk kill.

Wow Web Stats

I must add that I messed up my timing on gargoyle and had a few glitches in my rotation that I think I can work out. I tried blood spec for approximately a week and decided that I didn't like the play style and I am not certain that it is as good as unholy at this gear level. I also am considering tweaking my spec some as I'm not certain its optimal right now. I would also appreciate any input from any of you WWS guru's about the numbers and things I could have improved on.

 

dr_AllCOM3

Patchwerk is a very Unholy friendly encounter. Your WWS shows it, you're lower on all the other bosses.

Doc's PvE Spreadsheet
http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t38534-dps_spreadsheets/

 

Keline

Is there anything we can do to prevent our gargoyle from dropping dead after 10 seconds in AE heavy boss fights? In most heroics I usually don't get more than 5-6 bolts from my Gargoyle because of it, sometimes he even gets meleed to death.

 

Lowe

I'm trying to figure out a unholy spec, that would allow me to spec for Anti-magic zone. Without gimping my dps to much. MY raid leader wants to try it out, to see if it will help out against sapphiron and other bosses.

Any ideas on how to spec for it?

 

Ommar

To all the new unholy speced dk players,here are a few macros that might help you till you get the use of things

1.Single target(usually boss)
/startattack
/castsequence reset=combat,target/ icy touch,plague strike,blood strike,blood stike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike

2.Aoe(advised to start with DnD first then spam macro)
/Startattack
/castsequence reset=combat,target/ icy touch,plague strike,pestilence,blood boil,scourge strike

3.grinding
/startattack
/castsequence reset=combat,target/ icy touch,plague strike,blood strike,blood strike,death strike,icy touch,plague strike,scourge strike,death strike (replace scourge strike with another death strike if you need more healing)

4.Feeling lucky using SS glyph on single targts?(I don,'t)
/startattack
/castsequence reset=combat,target/ icy touch,plague strike,blood strike,blood strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,blood strike,blood strike,scourge strike,scourge strike,scourge strike

enjoy and please correct me if I am wrong

 

Vis

Does anyone have any idea on how to add Blood Tap and Empower Rune Weapon into an ideal dps rotation?

 

◊ Embar

Castsequence fights are a bad idea on any fight where you don't get to stand still and mash one button over and over again, which is most of them. They don't let you adapt to varying situations very readily.

On occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary. -- James Nicoll

 

Vis

I realize that, and think that a priority system is more likely whats going to happen. However, using blood tap and empowered rune weapon should probably done under some pretty strict conditions to get maximum value. I would like to know when and how much of a benefit they provide if used like this.

 

Shedari

I realize this might be a long shot, but are there any death knights that have any experience with the 25 man Sapphiron trinket ? It sounds like it might be interesting to see on an unholy DK. Currently it has a 10% proc chance with no internal cooldown. If they only mean DOTs by periodic damage it's one thing, but if it also applies to spells such as D&D and Unholy Blight... that's a whole 'nother ballpark.

 

jacclark

My rotation for max dps on patchwerk was:

PS, IT, BS, BS, SS, Unholy blight, SS, SS, Obliterate (at the ~4s mark), PS, IT, Unholy blight, BS, BS, SS, Unholy Blight SS, Obliterate (at the 4s mark), etc..

I might be off on the no. of SS. But you get the picture. Obliterate and use the dot diseases before they expire.

 

c0nscript

I pulled this from the Simple Questions thread.

If this is true, then is it worth dumping Virulence off as a talent? I only bring this up because a nice raid utility that Unholy DK's can bring besides the mandatory Unholy Aura buff is AMZ. The only downside I see to this is that it is you lose 3% chance to crit on all abilities from Blood IF that quote stands true.

[ 200% of AP + 10000 ] = AMZ formula

Is honestly worth it? Taking my AP for example unbuffed, 3129, would equal to 16258 absorb total on the AMZ which could save the healers a lot of mana if I threw it up over the melee group.

So would a spec with AMZ look something similar to this?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

 

pepe

Hi guys, I'm have been reading this forum for a long time and I would like to thank all of you for the ideas and theorycraft.

I'm thinking about the perfekt gear for an unholy DK, so I get some lootrank studies based on the APstats from Illundai's DPS Compendium
I figured out an gear setup with hitcap and nearly expertise cap.

Hit Me!

I know, strength is more worth then expertise but it is my personal favour to be caped. So you need not be worried about dodges and time waisting for recast a strike.
4 set pieces for the bonus = 2 talent points dirge can be put in necrosis.

If you are looking over it and finde some better pices, let me know!

ps: I am from Austria, English is my 2nd language. I hope it is good enough to read

 

Strnad

Corruptid, question? Why get unholy aura? all it does it make ya move faster, why not put one more in desecration and one more in necrosis? or 2 in either one?

 

everwatch

Heya guys!! I've been out of the loop with EJ for some time now because I've just been too busy leveling and raiding. And while some of my opinions have already been stated, I did wish to express the same ones in my own way.

I've found so far that the 17/0/54 spec is the superior Unholy raiding spec.

When dealing with a boss fight the first "questionable" talent that comes up is Virulence. Since you can hit the hit cap with raid debuffs (aka Misery) and with Draenei it comes to the question of whether or not you need that hit. The alternatives are: Anticipation, Unholy Command, Outbreak, Corpse Explosion, and On a Pale Horse. Out of these only Outbreak and Corpse Explosion offer any kind of a dps increase. Luckily, all current dps models have shows quite well these two talents do not actually cause that much of a dps increase for an Unholy DK. The application of CE for a boss encounter is minimal at best. And especially with the application of the SS Glyph, Outbreak becomes lackluster at best.

The next stop is Reaping. I've seen several people question the validity of using 2xBS over 1xSS. The best litmus test for you honestly is to just go grab a buddy warrior and have him sunder up a dummy. Then just go to town and see how the damage works out. Depending on your gear, there might actually be certain times where it's possible that BSx2 would win. But once you move into T7 gear, this changes. The Sigil of Awareness and even just the 2 piece bonus from T7 (not even gonna talk about how uber the 4 piece is) push SS far above the lead. Making Reaping a no brainer when you take the time to examine the gear that you will have available to you.

When you reach Unholy Aura and Desecration you come to a much debated topic, even outside of EJ forums. I've seen the conversation here lead to basically the same conclusion I had already made. It's a bad talent. If you're using the SS Glyph, which I highly recommend, then you're not hitting PS to begin with. Then add in that the majority of fights now require a great deal of movement and this talent begins to get a dull tarnish on it. Lastly, there are the raid complaints. Which are actually important. Not all, but many raids will complain about the graphic obscuring the ground, causing lag, etc. Overall more people complain about this one talent than any other ability available to a DK. The fact is, if it's griefing your raid then its just not worth it.

As far as Unholy Aura is concerned. Multiple threads have proven time and time and time and time again in EJ forums that a 7% movement speed increase is the best dps enchant possible for melee in game on boots. With the addition of more movement encounters in LK, and the fact that our Aura doubles the standardly accepted 7%, how could you possible argue the value or weight this talent carries? It allows healers to get back to healing quicker, people out of AoE's, people getting back to dps'ing, etc...

With 1 spare point available, you stare at the previous problem before when weighing Virulence. Magic Suppression and Descration are now on the table as well, but they again are pretty much lackluster when taking all of the variables into account. So 1 more point gets dropped in there.

Once this is done, every point is spent in Unholy possible, filling in all of the top tiers. The one questionable talent is Night of the Dead. So lets talk about Raise Dead and Army of the Dead.

Army of the Dead is FAR FAR more valuable than many people give credit on boss fights where the boss can be taunted, which atm is a lot of them. One example is KT in Naxx. When in P3, if it is lasting too long we have chained 2 Armies of the Dead to buy healers time. Also if an OT dies to the adds, an Army of the Dead usually buys enough time to get the situation in hand. The same for other encounters when you absolutely have to take an out of hand situation and do something about it. Every time I've used it in a raid so far, my entire raid has been, "OMFG, that so helped." Be more aware of this ability and try using it more often. It is difficult to model, and honestly difficult to explain the best ways to use it. Think of it more as an "Oh Shit" button for tanks and healers that only you can press. My instructions every raid to my healers and tanks has been to shout out in vent if there is trouble, and I'll drop AoD to take some heat off. Some may argue that this ability has a 20 min CD and you could use it once per boss fight as is. But the fact is sometimes it's helpful on trash and also sometimes you wipe. It happens even to the best of us.

Raise Dead
First off, if you target yourself and cast this, it will summon a NPC ghoul for you to command no matter who is near you as a corpse. If you find you can't do this quickly without making your dps suffer, a simple targeting/casting macro will do this for you.
Secondly, your Ghouls are an invaluable part of your DPS as Unholy. If you've kept track of Blizz Blue Posts, you'd be aware that when they nerfed Unholy dps on Beta, they specifically noted the Ghoul dps. Because of how much pet dps it does, they toned us down. And for good reason. I've been experimenting with an un-glyphed ghoul recently because I wanted to test out some Anti-Magic Shell/Bone Shield theories, but even while nerfing my ghoul he is fantastic. But sadly, many fights result in severe AoE dmg and the pet dies. NoD is almost a guaranteed pet at all times. And considering how often he dies in many of the fights, I'm not sure how any one would pass it. And if you would, go try to measure the talent you'd pick instead of it versus always having your ghoul up. I doubt it would be remotely close. But I'd love to hear you explain it. Some fights, such as Patchwerk, make this talent useless. I've never had my ghould die there. But elsewhere, like at Sapphiron, I can't seem to keep him alive no matter what happens. It has it's uses.

As far as the Blood talents, they are the standardly accepted best DPS talent choices. Feel free to argue them if you really disagree for some reason. I'll do my best to refute/debate your opinions; however, the majority of posts I've read here agree (or have already listed these options).

I also saw someone earlier question why UB did more dps than DC on a Single Target (ST). If that is ever in question, in all honesty EJ Forums isn't the place for such a question. Recount/WWS can show you, for your character, quite clearly which one will do more dps. Just multiply the UB dmg by the ticks and then compare it to your DC dmg. While I think EJ is a great resource for asking questions, asking a question you could easily answer with a simple in game test in under 10 minutes should be skipped.

Regarding Glyphs for Unholy.

Scourge Strike should be a no brainer imo, however it seems to be debated some. Now I've heard many people quote the "1 minute" uptime advantages. However in all fairness, the bad luck streaks should be noted. I've had more than one boss fight where it wouldn't proc no matter what, or the proc would go off on the very first SS used after PS/IT. It made me want to scream. But that being said, that is not as common as some would think. Overall this glyph is more beneficial for several reasons:
1) Frees up GCD's
2) Scales better with gear (Read sigil and T7 set bonuses)
2) Simplifies rotations so long as you can easily manage disease timers

Some people complain that this in fact makes the rotations more complicated. And for some, this may hold true. But in fact, if you have a solid mod that makes disease tracking easy then it makes your rotations super easy as the buttons you're hitting become far less. Leaving more time to spend worrying about other factors in a fight.

Raise Dead should also be a no brainer imo. The fact is, they do a ton of DPS. And they are part of your dps, whether or not WWS shows it. And if your guild cares that much about your dps numbers, simply pointing out a Recount example with the ghoul added in will make people see the truth.

For your third Major, honestly you can go anywhere you want. The fact is that the few that do add DPS, offer so little that buying utility somewhere else is a totally valid call. The theoretical highest dps gain would come from Bone Shield imo, followed by IT, and then PS glyphs. However the fact that you will so rarely use IT/PS with the SS Glyph makes these unfavorable compared to the normal weight I think they should be given.

Because of this I think that the Bone Shield, Anti-Magic, and Death Strike glyphs are your best options. 10 seconds of reduced magic damage means you can stand in a blizzard at Sapphiron. It means you can run through Grobbulus plague bombs if needed. It means you can run to a disc that is *really* far away at Malygos. Etc... the amount of survivability it brings to the table shouldn't be discounted. A dead DK isn't doing dps. Same goes for Death Strike. If a healer dies early, or any number of other bad luck factors crop up, extra self healing is nothing to scoff at.

As to minors...who doesn't have Pestilence???

I personally picked up Horn of Winter because the less RP I spend in a fight on buffs the better... As to the last, well Raise Dead is the only other one that can increase your DPS. Sometimes when running, have you ever noticed you're about to run out of RP and your gargoyle might desummon? This is basically a free 20 RP on tap if you absolutely *HAVE* to have it. And for when the ghoul does die, which is often, its a freebie 50% DC.

While some of these opinions have been stated, I again wanted to state them from my perspective to both back up those previous statements, and to lend a side perspective to those choices. As always, thanks for the great work here on the EJ forums. I, as always, appreciate it.

Skeleton Jack (need to update from being a shaman)

http://www.skeletonjack.com/