Dual Wield Builds - Page 147

orion121 · 02/25/09, 2:50 AM

Found this to 36/35 be matching my current 3200 Dummy DPS on Live

Current Build
Armory

seraphthrone · 02/25/09, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by Dev93L

This.

We are on the first day of a new patch, on a test realm no less. GC has stated before they want DW on par with 2h, and the blues post every single hour that the changes are by NO means finished. It's far too early to go on and on about DW being dead.

What they're most likely doing is nerfing it (to the ground) then they'll gradually build it back up. I'm doing my part on the PTR right now testing and dropping comments.

You cannot declare anything "dead" until it goes on Live, plain and simple. Yes, with this patch the way it is now, it's highly gimped, but the patch just will not stay this way. It's meant to be a living, changing thing. It's like a beta, and Blizz has said that.

What you do not realize is that if we do not declare the current PTR DW build is dead, they will leave it as is. That's why people need to speak up, do theorycraft and tests. And that's what the so called "QQ" are for.

kamiu · 02/25/09, 7:06 AM

Originally Posted by orion121

Found this to 36/35 be matching my current 3200 Dummy DPS on Live

Current Build
Armory

Using which rotation and macro's (cancelaura, deathchill)?

kudzupo · 02/25/09, 7:31 AM

As I mentioned previously I keep getting very good results with:

0/17/54

rotation: PS>IT>SS>UB>BB>BB(>blood tap)
PS>IT>SS>PS>PS>DC>DC

blood presence, blood boil v. blood strike needs to be tested in raid.

pop gargoyle at 130 RP (after first full rotation with no UB) and you can pretty much use the normal rotation from there (keep up UB at priority). I use my trinket [Mark of Norgannon] (I have low expertise) after gargoyle is popped and everytime it is up subsequently.

5 minute dummy tests with 0 HP:
With gargoyle: avg 3300 dps
Without gargoyle: avg 3100 dps

glyphs: ghoul, icy touch, 3rd TBD (will be PS when I can get another char copied to the PTR), using [Sigil of Arthritic Binding]

motörhead · 02/25/09, 7:38 AM

I think that Blizz is trying to get the DW spec out of the mainstream, by cutting down the insane high dps we do. to a more reasonable level with the 2 handers, but to a level so that the ones who just love to play DW and know how to, still be noticed in game. (knowing blizz this will take some time

). I dont think that its Blizz intention to kill a spec, we have to wait and see abit further on the line of changes that be comming before the patch comes out when more stats from testing are known.
And isnt this why we are here... to crack our brains to get this patch working for us!! instead of shooting it down after one ptr-day

soz for the grammer

Dev93L · 02/25/09, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by seraphthrone

What you do not realize is that if we do not declare the current PTR DW build is dead, they will leave it as is. That's why people need to speak up, do theorycraft and tests. And that's what the so called "QQ" are for.

I understand. That's what I meant when I said I was testing and dropping comments, but I should have been clearer, thanks.

For those unaware, Ghostcrawler has replied two more times on the issue.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - DW Entirely Dismantled - Intended?

Please tell me if someone gets something different from the discussion, but what I am now reading from his latest replies is that even with these drastic nerfs he still feels there will be a build(s) that will contend with 2h. I guess it's up to us to find it.

Or, maybe they intend to buff it back marginally as they go along in the testing process, and just don't want to tell us about it, so they can do it their way.

Also, we still have some testing yet to do in a real raid situation to see if the situation is really as bad in practice as it is on paper. We may get surprised.

Icewitch · 02/25/09, 8:00 AM

Hey guys so i have been a reader of these forums for a while but have never posted however with all the new changes to DW a build i currently play on my dathknight i thought i would throw out a new build idea and see what u think
( dont bit my head off if its crap lol

)

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

Basically alomst the same as the 0/32/39 build ppl use already but with the new talents and SS replacing the HB in the rotations oh and i was thinking of using unholy pressence instead of blood for the faster rune cds for a higher IT spam maybe. anyway was wondering if any on the ptr had tryed this yet

Kithus · 02/25/09, 8:39 AM

Originally Posted by Icewitch

Hey guys so i have been a reader of these forums for a while but have never posted however with all the new changes to DW a build i currently play on my dathknight i thought i would throw out a new build idea and see what u think
( dont bit my head off if its crap lol

)

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

Basically alomst the same as the 0/32/39 build ppl use already but with the new talents and SS replacing the HB in the rotations oh and i was thinking of using unholy pressence instead of blood for the faster rune cds for a higher IT spam maybe. anyway was wondering if any on the ptr had tryed this yet

I've been looking at something similar. However, I was looking at dropping BCB in favor of full desecration and losing 1 point off KM for full NotD.
29/42

My only problem right now is deciding on a third rune: PS, Ghoul, ?. Just running through the rotation, glyph of icy touch is only going to cause you to cap runic power. You won't have the GCDs for enough DCs to burn it. The only options I can see are D&D for trash and possibly BS to increase uptime on fights where you might lose a charge occationally. Perhaps the new unholy blight glyph?

PS>IT>SS>BS>BS (or BB>BB)>DC (Or UB when it's down)
PS>IT>PS>IT>IT>IT>DC

I don't see SS doing more damage than PS>IT for the two runes but you need a two rune ability somewhere in the rotation to leave time to dump RP.

Slirith · 02/25/09, 10:19 AM

i tried 51/20 on the PTR(no glyphs whatsoever for this spec lol)

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/222...509101311s.jpg

this is how i normally test on PTR/live by doing 300k damage tests

highest Hb crit was 5.5k
highest FS crit was 5.3k

Icewitch · 02/25/09, 11:17 AM

i looked at 0/51/20 as well but tbh with the nerf to HB damage its no longer a talent worthy of 51 points imo it might have been before the nerf but even still without ghouls with Notd any dw specc imo isnt viable as alot of bosses have a passive aoe or aoe within there encounters these days.
If however bliz would wake up and smell the coffee and realise that giving our pets this ability without having to tallent it then it would make alot more speccs alot more viable.

Curious to know if ppl wil now use Unholy presence over blood with the improves rune cds now tho?

Oh on a side not Ghoul frenzy looks very poor tbh costing a rune nvm anything else is just fail.

Aisuken · 02/25/09, 11:52 AM

Honestly HB still isn't that bad. If you look above, 0/51/20 gave me the second highest DW DPS, only 30 behind 0/20/51. I was very surprised to see that it's damage was actually pretty comparable to what I was seeing on live. Mind you this is with 100% merciless combat uptime and without full raid buffs. Of course the bigger problem is that it fell behind FS for damage done. That to me means that you would just be far better off using a 2h and Oblit instead of HB. Since oblit was bugged when I did that testing I opted for trying unholy presence instead, and it gave about 200 dps more. In fact, it gave slightly more DPS then 0/32/39 gave me in my comparison test on live. Frost Strike is pretty darn powerful right now.

Here is a screenshot of the recount just because.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...509_005233.jpg

Dark-Juggernaut · 02/25/09, 11:58 AM

Maybe they upped the ceofficiant on HB. How else could it compare without impurity?

orion121 · 02/25/09, 1:15 PM

Originally Posted by kamiu

Using which rotation and macro's (cancelaura, deathchill)?

Bind Deatchill and Unbreakable Armor to your IT (Unbreakable appears to consume no GCD)
PS IT IT BB BB UB DC (Subtract 1 IT for UA, add 1 PS or DC)
PS IT IT IT IT DC DC
Repeat.

Slirith · 02/25/09, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Aisuken

Honestly HB still isn't that bad. If you look above, 0/51/20 gave me the second highest DW DPS, only 30 behind 0/20/51. I was very surprised to see that it's damage was actually pretty comparable to what I was seeing on live. Mind you this is with 100% merciless combat uptime and without full raid buffs. Of course the bigger problem is that it fell behind FS for damage done. That to me means that you would just be far better off using a 2h and Oblit instead of HB. Since oblit was bugged when I did that testing I opted for trying unholy presence instead, and it gave about 200 dps more. In fact, it gave slightly more DPS then 0/32/39 gave me in my comparison test on live. Frost Strike is pretty darn powerful right now.

Here is a screenshot of the recount just because.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...509_005233.jpg

ya FS is nice now...not used to seeing 5k crits with it with a fast 1hander lol

Edimasta · 02/25/09, 2:51 PM

My first post here, after reading so much here I now try to participate and communicate my ideas...
So for now I made some thoughts about this patch, I just got on the PTR but testing is imho impossible there.

The new 0/20/51:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

And a new 0/51/20:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

New Hybrid Idea 0/27/44 (or 0/28/43):
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

Another new Hybrid 0/30/41 (or 0/31/40):
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

I also like the idea of the new "Unholy Aura" which will cut the CD of our runes... maybe it could be viable to build the next spec around that?

Could look like this 0/23/48:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

As for my thoughts, I think that at least 23 points in Frost are a must have to take "Glacier Rot". And if we think further, it could be that 28 points are the next step to take for "Rime" to maintain a better crit-chance for our IT rotation.

So this may also result in the different Hybrid 0/28/43:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

Or something like that:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614

The only thing to test is the new "Improved Unholy Presence". Also, as far as I have been able to test it, BCB seems to become more and more useless. Now only doing about 2% overall damage, even with diseases on target. It may proof better to take "Outbreak", but I think Blizzard won't leave the "new" PlagueStrike that good.

With 3.1 they really give us much to think about...

Edimasta - aka Edurol - DualWield Spellknight Blog