Janraea

Well, unlike some of the blues, things said on EJ only have credit when they have good tests done and given - I've been in these threads since they all started, and while claims have been made, I'm pretty sure no one has done more of a test than 'I have some haste, and I think my GCD is shorter'.

 

shed

Is there a mod that could track GCD timer? Quartz only shows the bar but not the actual timer.

 

salviastria

I know 100% that haste does not affect the GCD of MELEE abilities like FS, OB, BS. No matter how much haste a fury war stacks, he's stuck at 1.5 for eternity (or at least until he gets heroism). This is the same thing for a paladin's crusader strike, but say that same paladin has a bunch of haste and he needs to Holy Light. It will be reduced, because it is a spell even though he also has melee abilities.

If a mage goes and fireballs something with x ammt of haste, the cast is reduced accordingly. If that same mage casts a fireblast (instant), the GCD is still reduced even though its an instant cast.

HB, IT, DC....All of them are spells, albeit instant ones. Unless Blizz went out of their way to restrict how haste works on a specific portion of our arsenal, im fairly certain it should work for us. Will confirm somehow when I get home around 9pm EST unless someone does it before me.

 

Broseph

Just group with a shaman and have them cast heroism. That's where the "speculation" originated from. Should be easy enough to test.

I believe Grigori in particular tested it this way. His was the first post I remember reading about it and we had a further discussion about haste/GCD mechanics via PMs. I believe he said heroism clearly reduces the GCD on our spells but not our melee strikes, as we'd expect in a moral and just world.

But if y'all still want to re-test, start by grouping with a shaman.

Edit Link to his post Dual Wield Builds.

 

kurokaze

Potentially dumb observation:

As far as I recall, DoTs tick a set time after their most recent application; this is 3 seconds in the case of Frost Fever and Blood Plague. Dual wield rotations (well, more like implementations of priority systems, but whatever) contain quite a lot of Icy Touch spam, often interwoven with Death Coils. For example, the 0/20/51 build currently plugged into my WIP spreadsheet is approximated using the rotation:

PS IT BS IT DC IT DC / PS IT BS DC IT DC IT DC

Spreading out the ITs is considered the right thing to do both because it keeps RP from capping with the glyph (I'm using post patch data) and because spread ITs make the most of killing machine.

I'm hardly arguing against this logic, but if DoTs work the way I think they do, there is a disadvantage I haven't seen any mention of: Frost Fever ticks become very sparse.

With no haste, the above rotation's rotating DC/ITs allow Frost Fever to tick once per IT since it takes three seconds for two GCDs. However, with any haste, these ticks get gobbled up. My spreadsheet estimates three ticks per twenty seconds with that rotation and my gear (109 haste rating).

I'm sure the DPS gained from using all your RP and getting the most of KM outweighs this problem by far, but it seems somewhat extreme to cut Frost Fever so drastically. Just pointing this out so that it gets taken into account... IF I'm not just completely off base.

 

Broseph

From his latest WWS report in the Frost DPS thread, Kalevi saw a max oblit crit on Patchwerk of 9989. He currently has the best 2h weapon in the game and the Oblit sigil.

Wow Web Stats

The World of Warcraft Armory

DW specs regularly see HB crits that high. So I am going to go out on a limb here and say in no way will an Oblit DW spec ever, ever make sense, sigil or no.

When the fantastic IT sigil comes out next patch, this will be even more true.

 

Daloc

With a GoG/FS build I've regularly seen howling blast crits in excess of 10k, when my trinkets align. I'm with Broseph, Howling Blast>Obliterate no matter what.

Edit: I've been backtracking through the thread, finding 32/39 WWS posts and trying to look them up on armory to compare their stats to mine, but most of them have respec'd since then for pvp or whatever.

Anyone have a high DPS WWS concurrent to what your armory is? Or some sort of target I should be aiming for stats-wise (For example I think I have way too much hit, I keep seeing 8% tossed around and I currently have 11 or 12%)

 

Aerenx

I havent seen it mentioned, although I may be totally blind, but what combination of runes are being used for optimal dps? Fallen Crusader + Razorice? FC + Cinderglacier? Or some other combination?

 

blitzseed

I'm using Fallen Crusader + Razorice works well for me.

 

Foxx2405

As far as i can tell it depends on group setup too.

If you run 10 mans or heroics with 0-1 mages you will probably get more out of Cinderglacier than Razorice.

 

Syphilus

Wow Web Stats


Not the highest DW WWS out there, but my armory should be up to date. (No Ghoul/AoTD in the parse)

This is 0/20/51 spec, upgraded to the Split Great Hammer right after he died, was using Grasscutter OH for the fight.

First night really running the spec, should be better next week.

 

grayrest

Haste does not affect melee abilities but does affect spell abilities. I finally got some time to do GCD testing. My method for testing is to put on haste gear and activate the following macro:
This macro prints out the duration of the GCD in seconds for the ability in question. In Unholy Presence, it prints "1" for all abilities, as expected. In Blood Presence it prints "1.5" (i.e. not affected by haste) for all melee abilities (though I did not test HS,SS) regardless of haste as well as:

• Horn of Winter
• Path of Frost

With my 6% haste from gear, prints "1.416" (i.e. affected by haste) for:

• Blood Boil
• Pestilence
• Strangulate
• Howling Blast
• Icy Touch
• Death Coil
• Raise Dead

It prints "0" (i.e. Off the GCD) for:

• Frost Presence
• Blood Presence
• Unholy Presence
• Blood Tap
• Dark Command
• Death Pact
• Rune Tap
• Deathchill
• Icebound Fortitude
• Mind Freeze
• Rune Strike
• Unbreakable Armor
• Death Grip

I would assume that DnD would be in the haste affected group but the macro doesn't work on the spell due to the targeting reticule. Also UB/Summon Gargoyle is probably in with DC/Raise Dead, but I'm too lazy to respec. Finally, I'm still leveling so no testing for ERW and Army.

Edit: I managed to rope a guild DK into doing some additional testing. WoA and Bloodlust do affect Death Coil (and I assume the rest of the hastable spells) while WF does not.

 

Melchior

That doesn't seem right... as 2H blood I saw plenty of Obliterate crits around 12k, and both Blood and Frost have the same crit multiplier. I only have the Armageddon and don't match his other gear. While Blood would get Bloody Vengeance for 9% increased Oblit damage, w/ 2H Frost you'll pick up 12% under 35% target health, and I'm guessing he got at least a few crits in that time span with Frost's Oblit crit rate.

Even the last run I did w/ 2H my avg Obliterate crit was 9552, with the max being 11.8k (Patchwerk): Wow Web Stats

Those numbers would make me think he wasn't running the Obliterate glyph or something.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Junon.png

 

Broseph

The point is that 2H sigil-ed Oblits are ballpark DW HB's, thus there's no reason to choose a DW spec that focuses on Oblit. We don't really need accurate data to show this. You saw 12k Oblit crits as 2H Blood. Switching to DW (a) lowers the weapon damage, and (b) lowers the normalized scaling factor *significantly*. So the fact that we've seen HB's around 11k (and in rarer cases around 12k), which is ballpark what could be expected from a 2H Oblit-centric spec, ought to be enough to allow us to conclude DW Oblit is a bad idea when HB is an option.

 

Aind

With the recent discussion on whether or not to use BB over BS I have yet to see someone suggest pestilence over either in a situation with more than one mob. Not only does it count as a spell (gaining the alleged gcd decrease) but would also allow HB to hit with exponential values. With 4 mobs I have seen upwards of 24k crits as 44/27. Apx 2060ap.

 

furiousmike

Got my Nobles Deck done and was wondering what would be the top 3 trinkets I could get to go with my 90 str Darkmoon trinket.

Also, trying out 0/44/27 right now and rly like it. Question is what would be the ability priorities on a typical boss fight for KM procs between Icy touch, Frost Strike and Howling Blast.

 

• Darkside

If you are 44/27, KM procs should ALWAYS go to Howling Blast.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

Marloc

KM should be howling blasts as previously mentioned, best trinkets should be FotFF + Greatness, so much AP is very nice for spells since that's your damage as DW, the gargoyle is also easier to track with a trinket such as FotFF or Loatheb's Shadow, rather than Mirror/Greatness, On demand/Always up > rng

 

Foxx2405

Pestilience is only an option if you pick up Blood of the North though, so for a DW build like 32/39 or 20/51 its not an option to use Pestilence to generate death runes.
Exception being if you want to spread your diseases of course, but not as spammable ability.

Vice versa Bloodboil isn't an option for a deep frost DW spec.

EDIT:

Also the discussion totally isn't about multimob. Since we all use pestilence + bloodboil for multimob, Its quite obvious.

The discussion was whether bloodboil is worth it over blood strike on a single target. Since bloodboil is a spell so the GCD gets affected by haste.
It was a discussion, whether or not the lower damage from bloodboil, is worth taking considering the faster dumping of your blood runes.

 

Orlgin

The answer is simple: if you have enough haste that casting Blood Boil instead of Blood Strike allows you to add one extra move per 20 second rotation. If the answer is yes, then it is obvious that the additional damage from the extra attack you use will make up the difference between Blood Strike and Blood Boil.

How much haste that requires depends greatly on your latency. Assuming you have 100ms latency:

at 12% Haste, you gain 0.18 sec x 19 = 3.42 sec. You lose 2 sec to latency so 1.42 sec which is enough to cast another spell (probably Death Coil).

At 13% Haste, you gain 0.195 x 19 = 3.705 sec. You lose 2 again so 1.705 which is enough to use a melee ability such as Plague Strike.

Without Blood Boil,

at 12% Haste, you gain 0.18 sec x 17 = 3.06 sec. So 1.06 which isn't enough to cast another spell.

at 13% Haste, you gain 0.195 x 17 = 3.315 sec. So 1.315 which isn't enough to cast another spell.

So how much Haste do you have and how much Latency do you have? A simple calculator or a spreadsheet could tell you exactly when Blood Boil is worth using.

This only applies to 0/20/51 and 0/32/39 which get Death Runes using Blood Boil.

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true.
Martin Luther King Jr.

 

froggiess

What rotation are you using?

 

Marloc

Rotation that I've been messing around with as 0 20 51 is pretty much PS IT IT BS BS -> IT IT IT IT, I dump and PS whenever theres nothing to do, do make sure blood plague stays up for RoR to be active at all times - time gargoyle for extra fun on damage, I know it's not much but Im sitting at 3.1k DPS on nemesis dummy after 8 minutes but I did use army of the dead at the start and spiked to 4800DPS - this is with mostly HoW up since I was focusing on the "rotation" and sometimes it fell off - even though there's not much of an rotation than spam IT if ready, otherwise press other shiny buttons and dont sit at 100RP

 

BrokeAD

Edit: Nevermind, the dk I tested with was mistaken.

 

Janraea

BB does not do damage based on how many diseases it erupts. If you have evidence that it deals damage multiple times if extra diseases are present, we'd *love* to know, but it's a bug.

 

Syphilus

What he said pretty much.. the rotation is very simple but hard to set it in stone.. Convert blood to death to use as IT and try to spread out ITs with a GCD between them.. this 1) Gives better odds of getting a KM IT and 2) Avoids clipping Frost Fever before it ticks. Run it with those priorities in mind and use some common sense.

Other notes, Gargoyle seems to benefit from Rage of Rivendare, comparing 20/51 WWS's to 32/39 one's.