Trinket procs in general don't scale with AP/spell power, most scale with your crit chance though.

Is there an add-on that can track only certain procs? Last night on Patchwerk I was only able to hit 4100 (using Maexxna's Femur MH Fang of Truth OH with 2700 AP unbuffed), but I feel had I been able to keep track of KM procs I could've done a lot better. It's a bit hectic trying to watch my floating text for KM procs, and also for my mirror proc (to time my racial+trinket+garg).

Has anyone done the numbers for the best trinkets for DW? I'm aware of the best trinkets available for 2h, but are there any trinkets that rise above and beyond while DW'ing? (new DST comes to mind)

I'm using Darkmoon Card: Greatness and Fury of the Five Flights, can't think of any better trinkets.

Get Tellmewhen and Needtoknow. Easiest disease/buff/debuff/ability tracking ever.

You can also use Scrolling Combat Text and set it up to play a sound or have any alert you like come across your screen when you gain the buff from KM or your Trinket. Because of the way it's set up, it also will not tell you when KM procs and you already have it, only when you gain the buff.

For the record, I picked up a Hatestrike last night to make Hatestrike/Grasscutter combo. After doing some testing, it looks that weapon strikes are not done at the same time, regardless of what spell you use first (or if you start with auto attack)

Mik's Scrolling Battle Text.

It allows you to make custom scroll windows.

Set up a custom scroll window with the KM proc in it and any of your trinket procs (for summoning gargoyle).

Assign them different sound effects and make the fonts "sticky" and big (so it looks like a shaking crit alert).

Then when you hear the "OOORGLE!" or whatever - you'll know without having to hawk it. It works wonders for me and probably increased my overall dps by 350 (no bs).

People on the board probably have something similar, but Mik's is awesome by my standards.

I would say bandit's insignia is up there as well.

Does fury give more AP than mirror? or is it the consistent AP that's appealing - I'm guessing it's more ap/time - would make sense...

Also as discussed previously - I'm getting 2% overall dps from Extract of Necromatic Power - pretty nice at this stage.

How are you testing when your attacks land? Just eyeballing it? Watching your character's graphics? The statement that same-speed weapons strike at the same time was made after looking at Ren's WWS, which logs the time of strikes down to the millisecond, and for the entire duration of a 2:30 fight his attacks landed at EXACTLY the same time. This CANNOT be a coincidence.

I'm looking for an answer to this topic as well so hopefully Juice wasn't referring to this post when he said not to post questions you can find answers for in the DPS article. Besides, that information isn't exactly up to current for DW anyway so here goes...

I'm also currently using Fang of Truth x2 (using the macros to cancel Freezing Fog on IT HB), which has been a noticeable increase in dps from my previous slow/fast (w/Annihilation) setup . I'll be getting Grasscutter asap for OH, and The Interrogator seems to be a clear upgrade for MH. But where would Red Sword of Courage fit in comparison to those two? I'm not going to rob a tank of a nice upgrade to find out, so if anyone that has been able to test them against each other or has a clear answer just by looking at the items I would appreciate a piece of their wisdom.

Edit: Just to be clear, although I referenced specific weapons as examples this question should not be seen as is X weapon better than Y? What I'm asking of our knowledgeable community here is if given the current percieved optimal setup of fast/fast how do you value these stats against each other: dps vs. speed vs. stats

So what you're trying to say is that the wow combat log is wrong?

If Ren's strikes were hitting at EXACTLY the same time, then yes, it looks like my wow combat log is wrong. My combat log shows pretty obviously (I think) that my auto attacks are not swinging at the same time. Video here:

YouTube - DK DW Auto Attack Testing

Watch in HD plz. The video is pretty simple, it's me starting to attack the dummy in ebon hold with PS (note the rune cooldown) and then watching auto attacks pew pew. I filtered my combat log to only show whites to make it even more simple. The effect is the same regardless of which attack you use first (I tested PS, IT, HB, BS).

“There are talents that benefit DW more than 2H. We think that is more interesting than every talent always giving you the same benefit no matter what your gear choices. BCB, Killing Machine and Necrosis, among others, should benefit DW. If DW is too strong now, as some players think, then these are talents we might change. Yeah, we agree with Sawney. A proc per minute on Killing Machine would nerf DW a little while making an expensive talent more attractive for 2H Frost. We would also like to buff Necrosis a little since it just doesn’t pay for itself right now, but that could end up buffing DW too.”

Incoming DK Nerfs, DW, and Gargoyle… | Skeleton Jack

Are there any other blue posts about what they will really do with Killing Machine or does anyone really know what will happen with it ? thx

The actual posts that guy is linking to. The blogger you linked to really doesn't know exactly what he's talking about.

The posters in this thread (myself among them) have generally assumed that the blue post indicate that KM would be moved to a ppm mechanic. Since those two posts, there has been no mention of the topic - if you want to track for yourself, use the blue tracker.

In general, if you want accurate info about changes, you should either watch the blue tracker yourself, watch the mmo-champion front page, or keep up with the EJ threads that are relevant - we love to catch each other in mistakes, so they seldom stick around for long.

The impact of moving KM to a ppm (assuming it still only procs on white attacks) is that proc rate will no longer scale with crit, and weapon speed will no longer matter so much. The ppm value they use will determine whether that's a nerf or a buff at various levels of gear; I expect it to be a nerf to anyone who uses Fast/Fast (like they should) in blues or higher. The talent was way overbudget to begin with (for DW. Way *under* for 2h).

It's a pretty reasonable solution, and almost exactly the one they picked for the same problem with enhancement shamans before the expansion came out.

I was wondering about Deathchill in combination with Killing Machine/Howling Blast - is it worth taking a point out of Chill of the Grave to take Deathchill and get a guaranteed crit every 3 mins? I'm thinking for times when KM hasn't procced and you really want to fire a Howling Blast.

Hi, just have another question. Does anyone happen to have a good rotation for a 0/20/51 build? Ive been seeing alot of rotations for 44/27 and 32/39 and 31/40 builds, but not any for 20/51 so far. How do you think it would compare to my 31/40 build?

20/51 is giving best results using a priority system. Since you regularly have 7 cooldowns to use every 6 rune cycle, you have to use the abilities that provide the best effect. That being said I usually use this system...

Plague Strike (when desecration or blood plague are down)
Icy Touch
Blood Strike (converting blood to death)
Death Coil
Plague Strike

In a perfect world it would look something like PS IT IT BS BS DC - PS IT IT IT IT DC. While bloodlust is up, you can typically squeeze all 7 cooldowns in every cycle (1 extra plague strike).

In what way don't I know what I'm talking about? I post on EJ plenty. I'm "one of these posters" here at EJ.

KM moving to a PPM is an awful idea. I stand by that assessment. If the concern is over too much benefit being gained by fast weapons, an internal cd like the WF weapon imbue internal cd would be a simple and easy fix. But note again, this was an assessment. Not something that a Blue post said they were considering. I in no way indicated that Blue posts suggested anything other than using a PPM method. Had you bothered to read my entire post, you'd have known that. A PPM mechanic will, imo, significantly hurt this talent for all DK builds. Whereas a short internal cd would not make it suffer except in context to DW'ing very fast weapons (which from what I understand from Blue posts is Blizzard's primary concern atm).

Blizzard had just previously posted this in reference to DW'ing and Patchwerk: Ghostcrawler 1/02/09 My post refered to a 15% Gargoyle because all of the major online discussion atm refers to 6k+ dps reports from DW builds which utilize Gargoyle at Patchwerk (considered the baseline comparison for potential dps). My personal best at 5700 dps also used a Gargoyle as UNHOLY spec (not DW), where the Garg did contribute a solid 15% of my dps (and had done so for multiple Unholy specs). The listed example for the DW only puts Garg in at 11%, however I cannot be sure if he popped his before a Heroism and/or before an AP on use/proc abilities/items. However I have seen other DW reports as high as 15% for their Gargoyle as well. So the same has held true for 2 different specs at the same fight on more than one occasion. That dps proof for my numbers is linked/SS'd on my site and in the Unholy thread.

While a gargoyle can and will range anywhere between 5-18% of your total damage done depending on numerous factors such as when it was used, where it was used, what encounter you face, lucky placement out of AoE damage, etc...the fact that it can be 15% of your damage even some of the time makes it problematic from a balance perspective. Moving it deeper into the tree to make it an "Unholy" specific trick could save it from a nasty hit by the nerf bat imo since Unholy is the "pet" tree. Leaving it placed where it is will likely see it suffer a massive setback for dps however.

Too late.

Killing Machine now gives Your melee attacks a chance to make your next Icy Touch, Howling Blast or Frost Strike a critical strike. (Old - 10/20/30/40/50% from critical strike)
Summon Gargoyle now persists up to 30 seconds (Down from 1 minute). Damage from Gargoyles has been reduced from 64-86 to 51-69.
Necrosis now give your auto attacks an additional 4/8/12/16/20% shadow damage. (Up from 2/4/6/8/10%)

That makes the gargoyle a lot worse.

Functionally, wouldn't an internal cooldown act in much the same manner as shifting killing machine to PPM? Say the cooldown is set to 5 seconds, that's effectively 12PPM (best case). In fact, an internal cooldown could even be worse than a PPM approach, depending on the relative length of the cooldown. Without the numbers, I'd say it is far too early to state that a PPM approach is an awful idea.

Personally, I'd prefer Unholy Blight and Gargoyle to switch places in the talent tree, giving access to easier aoe threat to blood based tanking trees, and allowing Gargoyle to be tweaked appropriately based on the knowledge that certain unholy talents will be in place. Allowing Gargoyle to be a little less fragile (whether from inheriting the NoTD AOE avoidance, or otherwise boosting it's survivability) in exchange for some of the top end burst would be an acceptable compromise, and consistent DPS is much more attractive than "will he survive and I get rocketed to the top of the meter, or will he die in under 10 seconds?"

In my experience Blizzard is not generous with PPM rates on talents. I'd be shocked if they give it 12 PPM, but with it up on PTR we'll see now eh? The Gargoyle nerf is going to affect Unholy specs more than DW.