I'm interested in this build, but can't test it yet, as i dont have a slow 1H

Some points of advice on the proposed build here would be:
- annihilation = bad, merciless combat = good (switch them)
- Death chill is now better then 1 point in annihilation, as it no longer has the possibilty of overwriting a KM proc.
- Impurity = very very good, needs 5 points.
- Most DW speccs run better on a priority system then on a rotation, and this specc even more. The lower RP cost of FS means 2 points in Epidemic becomes very good. FS > PS (when BP already up).
- Imo OB still sux hard and does less dmg then an IT. (have not tested this though)
- Gargoyle got nerfed, but still adds quiet a nice amount of dps. Unbreakable armors benefit to your dps is kind of hard to calculate as it affects so many things.

I wonder if we could drop a point in BotN in favour of the gargoyle. the 3% BS dmg lost in almost 0 and the 20% chance to not refresh a death rune would come down to this:

2 BS used per 20 sec.

80% chance to refresh as blood.

The death rune would probably be used on an IT instead of a BS.

this means you will on average miss 1 death rune per 50 sec.

(10 conversions per 100 sec, 80% conversion means u miss 2 in those 100 sec).

To compare vs a gargoyle you extrapolate this to 3 min. (180/50= 3,6 death runes missed)

IT average dmg for my last patch was roughly 4.5k

BS average dmg was 600

So every Death rune lost = ~3900 dmg.

Total dps lost in 3 mins for 1 point of BotN:

3900*3.6/180 = 65 dps

The gargoyle however adds more dps than this (166 dps on an earlier calculation, though using a slightly better equipped DKs WWS)

My proposed specc would be: http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deathknight=000000000000000000000000000320053502050211230100410130023021030500311500 0100000000000&glyph=122110060405

I was pondering a play on the 44/27 build without Gargoyle or Ghoul (as I can't see the point to Gargoyle with Frost Strike or having a Ghoul without NoTD).

Was looking for anyone's thoughts.

Glyphs would probably be IT, FS, and a wildcard. Wish they would fix the BS glyph

edit: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=jZG0excxbRhoV0sZfMhhxcox

I've done alot of information soaking however I'm still not sure about the pre-reqs of DW. earlier on there was very small talk about it and then we seemed to have gotten lost in the discussion between which spec was the best at that time.

To put it bluntly, my gear sucks however I will post the stats. Also it seems the armory is broken right now.

Unbuffed (including no-self buffs)

2680 AP
293 hit
24% crit
4 Expertise rating

I am dwing, Hate-Strike / Crypt Lord's Deft, MH - > OH respectively.

I am 15/34/22 tri-spec and the DPS I'm pulling on a target dummy = 1400 DPS as I'm too afraid to try it in a heroic.
Rotation = PS - > IT -> BSx2 -> HB -> RD and repeat.

It seems I do about the same damage DW as my 2H spec (Titansteel Destroyer - Unholy 17/0/54) however I was wondering was this because of just my really low stats? I've tried figuring this out on my own and it was to no avail as it seems some mechanics still puzzle me. A helping hand (as much as you could without seeing my armory) would be appreciated greatly! Thank you.

I've also thought about this kind of build. Without NotD the Perma-Ghoul is in many Bossfights at least questionable. The Question that comes up for me is: is Tundra Stalker eventually even better than impurity? It supports all abilities and even pure melee dps with its expertise bonus while impurity only supports your spell like abilities -especially IT, HB and DC.

It's also valid what Orothar said. Especially that you should get the 2/2 Epidemic if you want to get the most out of Frost Strike.

Probably this build is also quite good: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Im not sure if impurity is better than tundra stalker though.

That's what I was wondering myself. A slow, high top end main hand is obviously favored for this build as well.

Last night I ran Naxx 25 man, flasked for most of the fights. I was using a 31/40 build, no other Unholy DK's in my raid group.

My rotations on bosses were IT>PS>HB>BS>BS>x2DC (if Gargoyle wasnt up)
IT>PS>HB>IT>IT>x2 DC
(Also I was using the /cancel Freezing Fog macro)

My armory is up to date of what I was wearing besides my chest and shoulders. I was using the plate shoulders from 25 man Naxx trash which had my hit alot higher than it is now. And I was using my 7.0 chest rather than the 7.5 tier chest peice.

Hope this helps out!

Wow Web Stats

(edited for macro clarification)

Well, let's look at the damage of Icy Touch with Impurity and Icy touch with Tundra Stalker.

Assume 4000 base AP.

Average Base Damage: 236

[((.1*1.25)*4000) + 236] * 1.30 * 1.30 = 1243 average with impurity.

[(.1*4000) + 236] * 1.30 * 1.30 * 1.10 = 1182 with tundra.

So around a 5% dps loss. So the question is, does the 10% increase in frost strike damage make up that 5%?

Maybe I'm taking it the wrong way, but isn't it a 10% increase to all spells and abilities while the target has FF? So then it turns into can you make up that 5% through your standard rotation doing 10% more damage?

Thank you for your calculation! There are theoretically 4 ITs per Rotation cycle in this rotation style:

PS IT HB BS BS DC DC
PS IT HB IT IT DC DC

If we fight with FS the normal rotation would be something like this:
PS IT HB FS BS BS FS FS
PS IT HB FS IT IT FS FS

Lets do this for HB and DC, too:

HB
[((.1*1.25)*4000) + 103] * 1.10 * 1.30 *2 = 1725 with impurity

[(.1*4000) + 103] * 1.10 * 1.30 * 1.10 * 2= 1582 with tundra.

DC
[((.1*1.25)*4000) + 443] * 1,15 = 1084 with impurity

[(.1*4000) + 443] * 1,15 * 1,1 = 1066 with Tundra

Im sorry that i don't know the math for the melee abilities.

Per Rotation you'll cast:
4xIT=4972
2xHB=3450
4xDC=4336
Overall through casts with impurity=12.758

With Melee:
2xPS=?
2xBS=?
Overall=?

That part will be replaced with Tundra Stalker an the following abilities:
4xIT=4728
2xHB=3164
Overall through casts=7892

With Melee:
2xPS=?
2xBS=?
6xFS=?

Could anyone please help me with the melee math? I'm not really sure how to get a comparable value with 4000 AP and for example a 2.5 Speed/156 DPS weapon.

Thanks!

This thread badly needs some moderation. There are far too many people asking to have someone hold their hand and far too few contributing useful opinions/experiences/testing.

Many of you have noted trying certain specs, but did you bother to re-glyph as well? For example, 2h 44/27 would be significantly worse without the OB glyph.

That said, post patch, I haven't done any 25 man content yet. Since I raid 10s with and unholy DK offtank, I switched to a 44/27 build using Angry Dread and Hailstorm. I tried 2H with Death's Bite, but it seemed to be slightly less DPS and I didn't have an OB glyph handy. The DPS change could have easily been due to necrosis being bugged on target dummies. I also found unholy presence was very good. The added frost strikes seem to offset the lack of blood presence multiplier. But really, rather than comment on DPS numbers thoroughly, I'll simply say they were satisfactory for 10 man. I maintaned roughly the same 4k~ dps on patchwerk as I had with 32/39 pre-patch.

I really liked the idea of this spec as the patch approached, but having tried it I'm not sure I'll stick with it. What I really feel needs to be pointed out is the lack of utility I felt with this spec. The lack of bone armor combined with nerfed Icebound Fort and no Subversion really made me squishy and more careful about threat...and after all what's the point of high dps if you have to be careful about it? Even with vigilance and a DK tank having D&D down, it was pretty bad in AoE situations. Normally with 32/39 I would just shrug off 1-2 adds on me, but I was constantly almost dying without it. Obviously bone armor has been nerfed as well, but even, 20% is pretty significant if you're used to being able to grab stray adds on sarth with drakes up, not to mention the extra AoE damage you take on certain fights. Also, the lack of NotD is noticable, especially with the change to the talent.

Anyway, 44/27 just made me feel like I was playing my old DPS warrior.

Right, so the question is if 25% to the AP coef on Howling Blast, Icy Touch and Death Coil (and to an extent the disease dots) is worth more than the 10% flat increase to those skills and Frost Strike, Blood Strike, and Plague strike. I just did not have the time to do all the math at work, perhaps I will get to it later.

On a side note, does the IT sigil apply its bonus damage before damage multipliers or after? I can't test right now and I was hoping someone already knew.

EDIT: Lunch break, let's do some math...

4000 AP

0/44/27 Using Slow MH weapon with 359 Avg weapon damage.

Average Damages (non crit, with two diseaes):
IT = (.125*4000)+236 *1.30 * 1.30 * 1.10 = 1368
DC = (.1875*4000)+443 * 1.15 = 1372
HB = (.125*4000)+270 * 1.30 *1.10 = 1101
FS = ((4000/14)+359*.60+150) * 1.10 * 1.30 = 930
BS = ((4000/14)+359*.5+191+95.5+95.5) *1.15 = 975 - 20% armor reduction = 780
PS = ((4000/14)+359*.3+113) = 506 - 20% armor reduction = 404

Total: 5955

0/50/21 Using Slow MH weapon with 359 Avg weapon damage.

Average Damages (non crit, with two diseaes):

IT = (.1*4000)+236 *1.30 * 1.30 * 1.10 * 1.10 = 1300
DC = (.15*4000)+443 * 1.15 * 1.10 = 1220
HB = (.1*4000)+270 * 1.30 *1.10 * 1.10 = 899
FS = ((4000/14)+359*.60+150) * 1.10 * 1.30 * 1.10 = 1024
BS = ((4000/14)+359*.5+191+95.5+95.5) *1.15 * 1.10 - 20% armor reduction = 858
PS = ((4000/14)+359*.3+113) *1.10 = - 20% armor reduction = 428

Total: 5729

Man, now I need to do the crit math to find out if the extra crit damage from the beefier FS makes up for the drop of ~4% from the normal.

Also, these are not rotations and not taking into account a whole bunch of stuff, this is just a way to measure the two talents against each other.

EDIT 2: I just don't see the loss of the perma ghoul and the gargoyle damage making up for the 5 expertise and 10% damage to strikes and the addition of 10% strength every 60 seconds. I think 0/44/27 is the way to go.

Thanks for doing the math!

I use one typical rotation cycle to check how much it will be in the big picture

With Impurity per rotation cycle:
4xIT=4972
2xHB=3450
2xPS=808
2xBS=1560
6xFS=5580
Overall=16270

With Tundra Stalker per rotation cycle:
4xIT=4728
2xHB=3164
2xPS=856
2xBS=1916
6xFS=6144
Overall=16808

As it looks you are absolutly right. It stands no chance if you count the gargoyle and permanent ghoul of the 44/27 in.

0/44/27 seems like the way to go(in this example). Thank you for your help!

getta consider raid buffs/BL as well

Not an entirely balanced comparison since you are rounding off the slow wpn, and the faster wpn has no remainder (whole number)

To present an impartial comparison both would need to be whole with no rounding.

if you multiply both by 100 for instance

Hailstorm is 1.5 speed, which means it swings 40 times a minute. (or 4000 times over 100 minutes) 30% of 4000 is 1200, so you would get 1200 BCB strikes. Each of those hits for ~50% of the weapon damage, which means each will hit for about 117. 117X1200=140400

Angry Dread is 2.5, which means it swings 24 times a minute. (or 2400 times over 100 minutes) 30% of that is 720. Each of those hits for 195. 195X720=140400

as it says further down in this post, pick your wpn with the best dps (how you determine that is up to you) fast or slow makes very little difference to BCB. You will see a slight increase in damage from your special attacks (PS, FS, BS) with a slower wpn given equal dps on each.


Edit
Looks like Goetterdaemmerung got to this first still working my way through the thread

The other thing I did not think about is that you would not even be casting DC as 44/27 anyway. Then you have to account things like the crit rate which could skew it either way, your ghoul being up etc. I just don't think tundra stalker makes up for it. However, if Tundra stalker was 10% to ALL damage (including white hits) I think it would start to pull ahead then.

I was wondering if this had the /cancelaura freezing fog Macroed into it? It seems like it does, I was just trying to clarify.

Thanks,

I guess I will have to try it, or maybe try the 0/44/27 and give a go to the garg and pet(but I dont like the pet as a melee...) And you are so lucky for the dual hailstorm they look so cool, my mace are ugly... hehe. Next week i try this so i will post again next week to see whats it will give me

Oh one thing why 2x Razorice? I use Razorice+Cinderglacier and I like the output but does 2x Razorice really improve the dmg?

i think there's an error on armory, i use razorice on MH and FC on OH

Hi to all,I've just swapped from unholy 2H to 0/33/38,i try to read the whole topic but 67 pages of theorycraft i think are too mouch for me,so i've a question to ask.Wich are the main stats for a DW? and Is possible to have a list of some of the best equipment for DW?(a list like the one in the unholy topic if is possibile)

Sorry for the bad eng

Read this for general DK info: Death Knight FAQ. Read this before posting!

This topic (Dual Wield Builds) is for serious discussion about DW dps builds, not general Q&A about class basics.

One other thing, if the heroic dummy is a low health, does merciless combat kick in here and inflate damage?

I'm really sorry i didn't see that topic