I was looking at comparing

15/35/21

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft Very Similar to the, Tri spec from the Dps compendium

V.S

32/39


Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

The rotation being

PS,IT,HB,BS,BS, Runic Dump PS,IT,HB,IT,IT and Dump

Spent the last two days reviewing several threads on builds and rotations. Lot's of great information. One thing I did see what weighted stats for unholy 2H, but didn't see anything comparative for our dual wield spec. As I am just learning about weighted stats can someone point me to a thread here that I might have missed so I can review how to do the calculations to determine weighted stats for our spec?

For lack of a better place to post this I am putting it here.

A little background. My guild has enhancement shamans and unholy dks coming out the ears. I don't need to provide anything but dps. I've been playing around trying to break dw dps and am doing fairly well with this odd tri-spec. So far it is comparable with other specs but has not pulled ahead like I've hoped it would. I still have gear to get to tweak it though.


28/13/30

Basically it plays a lot like the 0/20/51 and and 10/10/51 variants being a 6 IT rotation. It trades the deep unholy for more AP and a miniscule amount of crit and exp. Basic concept behind the build, Pump AP up high and maintain the meat of the IT talents but try and boost white damage some more with the fluff.

Eventual gear goals are to "overcap" hit by 2% and shift two points of virulence over to epidemic.

5200 dps patchwerk, no flask, no army of the dead (don't ask), 3 minute 30 second fight. Slow/Fast FC/CG

Probably a random ass post not relating to the current discussion, but this was brought up in GCHAT on how badly howling blast will scale.

Howling blast seems to be the worst of the scaling core abilities.

OB > HS > SS > HB?

Lets do some napkin math.


Here are the AP Coefficients for spells:
Anti-Magic Zone ____ 2
Blood Boil _________ 0.04
Blood Plague _______ 0.055
Bloodworms _________ 0.006 *
Corpse Explosion ___ 0.105
Death and Decay ____ 0.0475
Death Coil _________ 0.15
Frost Fever ________ 0.055
Howling Blast ______ 0.1
Summon Gargoyle ____ 0.333¯ (Gargoyle Strike) **
Icy Touch __________ 0.1
Pestilence _________ 0.04
Strangulate ________ 0.06
Unholy Blight ______ 0.013

Using the formula Base + (Coefficient x AP) = Damage
Say a death knight has 2000 AP

[(259+281)/2]+(.1*2000)=470 damage before modifiers such as glacier rot black ice frost fever and impurity.

Lets double the AP.
[(259+281)/2]+(.1*4000)=670 base damage before modifiers.

Only a 200 base damage gain before modifiers.

Lets see how it factors in with impurity, which adds to the coefficients if I am correct.
[(259+281)/2]+[(.1*.25)+.1]*2000=520 base with impurity
[(259+281)/2]+[(.1*.25)+.1]*4000=770 base with impurity

So in theory you gain 110 base damage per 1000 AP for howling blast.
(base damage*2)=FF base(FB)
(FB*.3)+(FB*.1)+(FB)= Damage of howling blast.

Any other information(such as how to calculate weapon damage, google doesn't help ) + corrections to my math would be helpful, because I want to see if howling blast scales worse than OB, HS, SS etc.

Because of the inclusion of DRM, are you using OB in your rotation often?(You also have reaping, and the build is based on IT damage as much as anything I imagine, so i take your DR's are being produced via BS often enough) With Epidemic being included in your ideal set up, I take it you are using OB somewhere, but I am curious as to where.

Metapod: Let's break it down.

Call armor reduction 80%.

Normalized 2H weapon damage scales with attack power at a rate of 3.3/14 (0.236) damage per AP.

Obliterate: 120% weapon damage, affected by armor. MC for ~2.5% bonus. Total modifier 98.4%. 0.232 damage per AP.

Heart Strike: 60% weapon damage, affected by armor. Glyphs for 20% bonus. Talents for 30% bonus. Total modifier 74.9%. 0.177 damage per AP.

Scourge Strike: 60% weapon damage. EP for 13% bonus. Total modifier 67.8%. 0.160 damage per AP. Reports may indicate that this is also affected somehow by Impurity, but what the number on that might be I have no idea since it doesn't have an APC as such.

Howling Blast: No weapon damage, 10% APC. FF for 100% bonus. GR for 10% bonus. BI for 30% bonus. MC for ~2.5% bonus. Total modifier 293%. 0.293 damage per AP.

So rather than scaling the worst with regard to AP, it looks like, disregarding crit bonus damage (which is roughly equal for all) and crit chance talents (which favor Obliterate most, but probably HB second), HB scales the best with AP. Of course, the tradeoff is that it doesn't scale one bit with weapon damage, but even if you say that weapon DPS counts for half of weapon damage - which is quite unrealistically high if you're raid buffed - HB is reasonably close to SS. More realistically, AP probably counts for about 65% of weapon DPS (5000 ap -> 350 dps, vs BoH at 223 dps), which puts HB at an effective 0.190 damage per AP/weaponDPS combined, which is a solid second place.

I like the 28/13/30 spec, but I've made a few changes both in spec and rotation. For instance, the rotation:

PS-IT-BS-BS-OB-DC-DC
PS-IT-IT-IT-IT-IT-DC-DC

Then a spec like this -> 28/13/30 would be more beneficial, as you'd need the additional RP from Dirge to pull off two DC's before the 2nd rotation in your cycle. The OB works perfectly into this rotation since you'll be re-applying diseases at the beginning of your 2nd rotation anyway.

Also, Slow/Fast would seem to be best for this, since OB, PS, and BS would all benefit from the additional weapon damage. FC/CG I would presume would be best, though Double FC could be just as well.

EDIT: I should also mention the three glyphs I'm using are IT, OB, and Ghoul.
EDIT 2nd: I should also say that the extra RP from Dirge would not be necessary if you have 4t7 (I do not, I have 3 pieces. I missed about a month and a half of raiding

After having become intrigued with the recent high dps parses from dual fallen crusader users, I tried it out. I have to say I was amazed with a 75% uptime, was expecting around 63/64, like the parses demonstrated for others. However, my dps was not that different, even though the kill was 20 secs shorter (Althoug slightly more messy, not only with BL timer but also i didnt play as smoothly):

FC/CG: WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

FC/FC: WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

The gear is absolutely identical, as well as buffs etc should be almost the same.

I dont see much discussion any more since the patch on 44/27 vs 32/39 variants. Has the new NoTD shifted the balance so much so to deep Unholy builds?

I personally was turned off 44/27 DW when I found out, I could do more damage by equipping a 2hander keeping my 44/27 build with points "wasted" in Nerves of Cold steel instead of Annihilation largely due to the harder hitting FS. However my 2hander is The Jawbone which is not a fair comparison to my rather mediocre 1 handers.

However I do think that 44/27 will make a comeback with patch 3.1. With the UB/Gargoyle switch I don't see HB and UB both being available to 32/39 builds. HB will probably move deeper into the frost tree however it will hopefully still be accessible to 44/27

I don't think so. I tested this out for myself and kept track.

I don't know if I am just blessed with a good healer(s) that has my pet showing up on his (their) grids, or because if maybe he's a best friend in real life, but the result was such that the only fight I had trouble keeping my ghoul up on in Naxxramas as 0/44/27 is Sapphiron, and even then he only died once, so the cooldown for Raise Dead was up. I also want to note the only buff he had 100% of the time was PW:F, just due to circumstance, and the fact I'm in a 10 man guild. He would have Kings and Pink Paw on and off.

I think the issue of ghouls dying so much with that spec is sound for poorly geared guilds, or guilds just entering Naxx, but I don't think it's a problem for decently geared guilds. I absolutely love the spec, 4 Frost Strikes at the end is great. As a matter of fact, I hope this remains a viable type of build post 3.1, but I don't want to get into specifics (wishlisting).

The reason ghouls tend to live longer now is not gear (stamina is not increasing really as people get geared) the reason is that ghouls tend to have a LOT more hp from Glyph of the Ghoul since the change. My ghoul has something like 25k hp raid buffed, which is about what I've got. This gives them a lot more time to catch a chain heal or CoH or whatever, whereas previously they would often get 1 or 2 shot by random AOE. NoTD is nearly overkill.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before because I'm not sure where else I would have found mine, but my current build is 0/20/51.

I'm also the only Deep Unholy in the guild right now, so if that's not the case for you, you can dump points from UA and EP somewhere else.
The rotation I'm using, also gleaned from somewhere on these boards, is:

PS > IT > BS > IT > BS > UB > {DC}
PS > IT > IT > IT > IT > {DC} {DC}

This could be a little off of optimum as I've just started raiding this spec this week (our old Unholy tank went Frost), but at least it's somewhere to start. Hope that helps.

That rotation should be:

PS -> IT -> IT -> BS -> BS -> UB
PS -> IT -> IT -> IT -> IT -> DC

if you lack haste. Once you get enough haste, use the Icy Touch glyph and go this route:

Begin with a Blood Tap to get a death rune. It makes the rotations smoother.

PS -> IT -> IT -> IT -> BB -> UB -> DC
PS -> IT -> IT -> BB -> IT -> DC -> DC

The magic number varies depending on latency and is helped greatly if you get spell haste buffs. Easy way to test if you have enough haste: cast plague strike and 6 spells. If your unholy refreshes before you finish, you need more haste. Any shaman can give you Wrath of Air totem for 5% spell haste. A moonkin with Improved Moonkin Aura or a paladin with Swift Retribution can give you 3% more haste (of all kinds). If you manage enough haste, you can improve the rotation by putting the blood strikes back in instead of Blood Boil.

Information about deep unholy DW specs is in the thread. I compiled some information in the opening poster there which will help you. If you have any questions, just PM me.

Thanks for the info guys, will try it out. Im not sure how much dps this spec/rotation pulls but from what i read in earlyer post its pretty effective.

Does anyone have some numbers or WWS/Recount/etc on how 0/20/51 compares to the standard 0/32/39 in terms of DPS?

Finding Top Raid DPS 3.08

Most every spec viable for a raid environment has a wws attached to it in this thread.

Following up on this, has anyone attempted this build with a two hander (apologies for it not being a DW build, but it related to the topic at hand). There could be a few variations of the build, most notably something along the lines of this.

Pros and cons: Much higher blood strike damage and obliterate damage. Would the increase in damage from that make up for lost white/bcb/necrosis damage from switching from DW to 2h? I don't know yet.

The rotation would look something like this:
PS IT OB BS BS DC OB IT IT IT IT IT IT DC

Another possibility is a PS-less rotation - in this case points in epidemic wouldn't be necessary and a build like this one would be possible:
OB OB BS BS DC IT IT IT IT IT IT DC

Glyphs would be IT, Oblit and Ghoul.

I would assume Blood Presence to be best by default but perhaps Unholy will be better considering that the obscene amounts of RP generated through glyphed IT spam and (possibly) 4 set bonus would allow for quite a fair bit of DC spam.

Anyone have any thoughts and/or experience with this build?

Yes, but a majority of those either have expired WWS and don't have a link to the armory profiles, so its hard to tell what kind of gear they're using, and comparing people with vastly different gear is pointless.

The numbers come out closer than you might think. The white damage component of most 10/10/51 and 0/20/51 meters is awful close to the IT component. A BV switch to boost white damage (and the attached necrosis damage) conserves most of the damage from Rage of Rivendare that would be going into IT and Deathcoil.

As mentioned in my original post, EP is always provided for me elsewhere so the wasted points in blood for me would just be "wasted points" in unholy that would screw with my unholy counterpart as we fought over the EP.

Blood does net me another 6% str (which for me currently is about 80 strength), and as you mentioned some meager crit gains and a point of expertise. Tracking what that 80 points of strength is worth gets real messy.


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Also to respond to Blair

I suspect that your proposed rotation would have too much Frost Rune dead time. as a 7/8 rotation is kind of long.

Furthermore the Dirge is entirely unnecessary (at least with your rotation) as the second half overcaps runic power by 20, leaving you with enough to death coil twice in the first half of the rotation.

I have the same kind of issue.

I'm currently playing Fast/Fast 0/20/51 with Hailstorm in MH and the world drop sword in OH. I'm pretty undecided about which rune to use on each sword. I think FC is the way to go for MH but I'm less confident for the OH.

Marksman hunters will probably have it much easier to keep up the ap buff since its a spell.
The blood specc is not the most insane booster specc because Mm also can bring that buff.
My guild has none blood death knight and that is probably also because no one is interested in going blood.

Salut Dése ^^

Runes to use actually depend of your stuff.
FC/FC is the way to go for high amount of STR. I think someone calculate it in the thread if you look closely.
But when you are at least full naxx 10 you can replace CG by FC.
Before that CG is better.