JCrowns

Trinkets:

Assuming I have access to Fury of the Five Flights, Mirror of Truth, and Darkmoon Card: Greatness, which of the two give me the highest effective AP?

It seems to me that the worth of the Five Flights trinket goes up significantly while dual-wielding, as it is easier to stack up and maintain. However, the drastically large procs on the other two trinkets are ideal for Garg summons.

I have the mirror and fury and I am wondering if it's worth the trouble (and my bank) to get a darkmoon card. Also, with the upcoming changes, I may go back to 2h unholy (pure guess-work at this juncture). In that case, am I right in thinking Greatness heavily outweighs Fury?

 

• Darkside

Fo5F and Greatness are easily the best trinkets for a DW Death Knight. Greatness is actually the best trinket for any DK because of the ridiculous Strength -> AP conversions we get with Fallen Crusader.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

JCrowns

And for 2h unholy, Greatness and Mirror would be better?

 

• Darkside

That probably depends on how long it would take you stack Fo5F. If you can get it up relatively quick (<10s) and keep it up for the entire encounter, 320 static AP is going to win out in almost all situations. I think Mirror only provides the equivalent of ~250 AP over the duration of the fight.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

Ehaan

Sorry if this has been asked/answered before.

My question is about cancel aura macros for freezing fog.
So my understanding is that people use these because they want their Howling blast to use runes to get the 15 RP. Wouldnt the extra 2 runes be more DPS than the 15 RP? Even if you dont use the unholy rune on another PS you can still get in an IT.

 

JALbert

You're still limited by the cooldown on Howling Blast. Short story is that cancelaura macros simplify rotations a lot, and cause a slight DPS decrease compared with perfect play and no macro. However, people aren't perfect, and some do better with the simplicity of the macro. It's a personal preference thing.

 

Winco

Why not move some points around, grab Annihilation - Spell - World of Warcraft, and use obliterate on rime procs? Would help maintain a semi clean rotation I imagine.

 

Aisuken

I doubt that the damage Obliterate does with a 1h, even if you had a slow 1h, would be worth adding an extra GCD into your rotation, let alone the cost of speccing into annihilation. I could definitely be wrong on that though.

At any rate if you are determined to make use of FF procs, I imagine your best bet would be to just throw an extra IT and leave the unholy run unused.

http://zomggamer.blogspot.com/

 

cryptus

As good of an idea that sounds, I don't think people who are specced as a 33/38 would want to spend the extra points into annhiliation. Just for that purpose alone. There are other places to spend those points. and without it, is too much of a burden to have to reapply the diseases once again.

Since a majority of 33/38 are fast/fast builds, I am sure that obliterates only hit for 2-3k with a fast MH.

But the idea is a pretty good one, to use oblit on rime procs, it would be almost a free attack, at the cost of a gcb. and it will generate runic power if you have the T7 set bonuses. but without annhil, it seems to much of a hassle to implement into a rotation. It would come at random times. And you would have to be paying attention to your buff bar waiting to see when it procs. that might distract you from other things that are occuring.

 

Kalis

As a 32/39 variant w/ ~2900 AP, MH [Split Greathammer] OH [Hailstorm] What would be a bigger DPS increase; [Fury of the Five Flights] or MH [Last Laugh] ?

 

Xaoc

You should probably use some tool to determine that, like say, oh I dunno, maybe Rawr or a spreadsheet? Just guessing though.

 

Winco

True but it is not required that you use fast in both hands, though it may be ideal, slow works as well main hand. Either way its extra damage. Like you mention, the problem is finding where to take points to put into it. I recall from the Dual Wield Unholy thread, claims of the benefit that Nerves of Cold Steel provide are minimal. I'm not entirely sure how sound that is, but the 10/10/51, and 0/20/51 build where supposed to be performing similarly.

Possibly something like the following? http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=132112000000
I'll admit I'm not to familiar with RP generation, and the true benefit of keeping Chill of the Grave, and the Icy Touch Glyph, other than keeping the generation of RP high enough in order to get a fair amount of Death Coil dumps. 1/2 Night of the Dead seems fair, and may only really hurt on fights such as Sapphiron. The buff the talent recieved last pach helped a lot, but so did the stamina buff.

If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. Its something I've been thinking about and no one to discuss it with.

 

cryptus

Nothing wrong with thinking about something, its a good idea. I have honestly thought about something similar to it, but realize the GCD on weapon switching is too drastic of a change. i had a macro set to equip my Claymore 2h (normal naxx 2h sword drop) then doing a oblit, and switching back to my DW set. Because each time I switched out to a 2h, it would crit for aroudn 4-5 k or more. but the GCD on switching was a pain.

Any way, I'm always open to discussing new things.

Also, nerves of cold steel provid a good amount of DPS, being it also increases necrosis damage and whatnot. Also the ability to hit which = more damage dealt.

 

Gaqus

Greetings to everyone on this lovely forum.

I've been following the DW discussion for many months now and my Death Knight has pretty much, excluding a couple of pieces, the best gear he can get. I do however have a couple of questions regarding hit rating and haste rating.

I've been hearing talk of DW only needing 296 hit rating these days, given that if you have misery + 3/3 virulence you would get spell capped in raids. Is this viable? Or do we want a bit extra to get more melee hits?

And also, the talk of haste has died down a bit since the 3.08 changes. However, is haste not still viable? And also, does anyone have numbers on how much haste do you need to get capped? I am thinking that with my standard 32/39 build, using a pretty GCD reliant rotation, it would be great to get GCD down to 1 sec for those extra DCs.

Any comments and help will be greatly appreciated.

 

zALDARIs

About haste rating cap, you need to be able to cast your rotation + 2 DC without delaying your next rotation.
It depend of the rotation you use and the quality of your connection.
The only way to know how much you need is testing.

 

Gaqus

Using Doc's spreadsheet I just calculated a 50 dps increase in going from Valorous SB gauntlets to Zeliek's Gauntlets. And if that is the only way of testing wether my haste is lacking or not, then it most certainly is, because I cannot fire off 2x DCs without delaying the next rotation. However, a question regarding that would be what you mean by "delaying". Do you mean that at the time my Unholy rune is ready, that I can fire it off right away. Or is it a dps increase to maybe let that unholy rune be ready for 2-3 secs before I start the next rotation in order to fire off those 2x DCs? That would be my only major problem with the HB DW rotation.

I know however that it relies on the question on how much you will eventually, throughout the fight, delay your rotation in order to keep up the 2x DCs.

 

dr_AllCOM3

Don't focus on haste rating. Take whatever rating you'll pick up on the way and that's it. It doesn't matter, if your rotation takes slightly longer.

DocsDK UI
Simulator

 

Stein

So when does everyone else pop Emp Rune Wep? Two weeks ago I worked ERW into my starting rotation and it seems to have helped my dps. This is how i start fights:

Start Potion 0 <--Unholy Pres
-6 AotD 20
00 IT 45
01 PS 55
02 BT 55
03 dIT 80
04 HB 100
05 Grgl 50
06 dIT 75
07 dc 35
08 Horn 45
09 dc 5
10 IT 30
11 PS 40
12 dc 0
13 ERW 25 <---Blood Pres

Then I settle into my normal rotation/priority. I'll also stay in UP longer if I get a few Rime procs in the first 13s.

Anyway, I really like the way this makes use of the pre-fight potion (Insane Str Pot) and Greatness proc that always happens to start the fight.

 

• Darkside

I tend to save ERW for when the boss is in execute range, in order to maximize that amount of attacks that get the 12% bonus. Generally, I use it when all my runes are on CD and I've just converted 2x Blood Runes to Death Runes, in order to get the maximum effect.

<XI|> if your dog barks do you debate the philosophical reason behind him barking
<XI|> no
<XI|> you say shut up idiot

 

Kyruski

I have a question with the BB vs. BS discussion that was going on a week or two ago. I normally play 0/20/51 but I'm wondering about 0/31/38+1 builds. Could possibly shifting some point around to something like this or maybe this (both builds can take Deathchill out and put it somewhere else), and switching BS to BB in rotations/priority systems; Could this possibly create a better and more reliable rotation that doesn't need too much Expertise?

This would Eliminate Blood Runes not turning into Death Runes due to Dodges and delaying the rotation. Would haste also be more reliant/viable/useful in such a build? I don't know if there is too much of a loss from my 0/20/51 build to the 0/31/38+1 build from losing EP and RoR. I'm just intrigued by the possibility of phasing out BS to create a more reliable rotation (and possibly faster due to GCD). The one thing I'm wondering is does the Damage loss (even if it is small) outweighs the gains. For some reason, I don't think the minimal damage loss would outweigh the lack of dodges in this case. I just need to have some hard evidence or some napkin math maybe.

 

Dark-Juggernaut

So I'm trying out an all ranged spec/rotation. The World of Warcraft Armory

You may spot me with an insignia in my first trinket slot when I log out after pvping, but I have fury there when PvE.
My rotation starts off a bit rocky, then falls into this groove:
HB, IT, BB, HB, DC, DC Blood Presence, still has small downtime due to HB cooldown, but fits in 10 seconds.
The macro is a bit differant but if you start off with a death rune and some RP it falls in line immidiately.
My spec, if you don't like armory, is 10/31/30
Is the spell hit cap assuming a class +3% buff is on the boss 288? That's what I'd been aiming for.
A few reasons I like the spec are that you can ignore expertise, your spell hit cap is all you need, you could theoreticly use any speed of weapons you wanted, and your specials benefit from buffs like Curse of Elements and Improved Scorch (which really just makes up for low spell crit base I suppose).

I'm still working on the last few pieces of gear for the best hit cap/enchant combination. My last patchwerk fight I did 5200 dps over a 3:05 fight. Army of the dead and gargoyle once, using a +3500 Armor:2min pot twice (once just before pull then again during).

I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on my setup, and if I should continue trying to eliminate expertise from my gear or not. Should I be getting 296 hit? Is the only reason people are getting 7k dps on patchwerks is because they're finishing in 1.5 mins (getting more out of their cooldowns)? Should I go get the Deathcoil Sigil?

 

Infectus

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Entire night of running IT PS HB BB BB DC IT PS HB IT IT DC DC 2x hailstorm 2x FC

went really really really well. BB hits decently with the 3 points in the talent. BS without expertise cap really screws with rotations and not exp capping allows to stack more hit / crit / ap.

5974 Patchwerk 02:43 Kill time

I like the BB rotation alot better, it makes for alot cleaner rotation not having to watch for dodged BS's. I have a semi-rediculous amount of hit 445 so finding the points to drop to pick up the BB talents wasn't hard.

 

thyraven

Hey guys, first time poster. but a rather long time reader.
And my question is, as ive been reading page after page here, it seems most people are talking about builds made for 25 man groups. but the guild im in only do 10 man.
Is there any big difference of efficency between 25 man and 10 man when it comes to 32/39 (with crypt fever)?
Im the only DK in raids, and weapons are torment of the banished and hatestrike with RFC and RC.
im really bad at math and such, and im not really that much conserned about a 100dps +- of my build. its just if its a big diffrence of 10 and 25 man, and if my build is efficient as the only DK in a 10 man group

 

JALbert

There's not going to be a major difference, but if you're the only DK in the raid pick up Unholy Aura for crying out loud.

Also, this is assuming you have a Warlock or Boomkin available for the magic damage debuff. If not, you may find better raid DPS overall with a deep Unholy Build to grab Ebon Plaguebringer if there's heavy magic damage in the raid.

 

thyraven

and why would i waste points on running speed? cutting my dps for more run speed makes no sense to me at all