Terala

One quick thought here since i must have missed it in the patch notes: the tallent calc you postet shows Unbreakable Armor as 25% Strength increas for 20sec is this a bug or live on ptr? because even with my smudgy little 1k str i suppose this is like a good option..

 

kudzupo

I am currently downloading the patch, very slow atm, so well see :P. It also looks like UA doesnt cost a rune anymore which would be awesome!

But I have been playing around a bit on the mmo calculator. If the talent calculator is correct and not the patch notes, I may look into a PS IT spam type build with PS, IT and FS glyph in unholy presence

The spec would look like this.

Rotation would be something like:
PS (+10) IT (+20 (30)) BS (+10 (40)) UB (-40 (0)) IT (+20 (20)) BS (+10 (30)) PS (+10 (40)) FS (-32 (8))
PS (+10 (18)) IT (+20 (38)) FS (-32 (6)) IT (+20 (26)) IT (+20 (46)) FS (-32 (14)) PS (+10 (24)) IT (+20 (34)) FS (-32 (4))

would look like this minus RP dumps: PS IT BS IT BS PS, PS IT IT IT PS IT

basically points in annihilationfor increased crit, can take 1 out and put in Deathchill, points in rime for increased crit chance of IT.

will have to get on PTR to see how it might work...though I don't have a FS glyph copied with me.

edited to include UB and to show the simplified rotation

 

Direheart

I was thinking about that. I don't want to give up HB but if we're forced to (if its damage is in fact reduced), then Oblit just may be the way to go - while boosting the overall dps with some nice talents from the Unholy tree.

Something like this might be a decent hybrid build.

No real reason to take KM but Annihilation would be worth it; being stuck with Rune Power Mastery likely means we can do away with Chill of the Grave and/or Dirge; and the point in Merciless Combat can be moved elsewhere if needed. Obviously Unholy Presence and Desecration can be shifted around to one's liking. I am not sure what to make of Ghoul Frenzy but I have a feeling taking both it and NotD would be an overkill, so just pick whichever turns out to be more viable.

As to why DW? On a personal level I simply don't like 2h style. It has little to do with looking cool, mind you, and everything to do with the pace of the fight. 2h is just too slow for me to enjoy; I've played every melee class in the game and always, always wind up DWing no matter how much I try to learn to appreciate 2h. So here's hoping I am not left without a viable DW option for the class I've come to love.

 

TyrannisKor

I was incredibly saddened by the patch notes, i have always prefered a dw build for death knights. After toying around with the talent calc on MMO-Champion, im thinking one of the best ways to go may be a 0/18/53 build focusing on IT spam.. quite possibly with a Slow/Fast setup due to the necrosis changes.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...6&version=9614


was around what i was thinking.

Sit in unholy presence, and run it basically like 20/51 was.


unfortunatly everything will be left up to speculation untll ptr's are open and later in the testing process.

 

Kyruski

This change to necrosis doesn't change the speed used. They will both deal the same damage over time, now if you're talking about just 1 hit, then sure Slow would be better. but as of these changes, it doesn't give a good reason to go slow/fast just because of the necrosis changes.

 

Soath

For me if these changes go live it's totally ruined DW. They are taking away everything that made DW useable.

This just feels like blizzards old tactic of nerfing the crap out of a spec so they can build it back up over the coming months. Therefore looking good in all the eyes of people that forgot about this uber berf in the first place.

This maybe useable but with the nerf to HB you, again, may aswell do 2H.

 

Drakojin

Why are you concentrating so much on HB?
This is not THE talent which makes DW viable.
The mechanics change and we have to accomodate to that. But I dont think that DW will die with the patch.

On a sidenote. With the changes to PS and BCB it might really be wise to go Slow/Fast.

 

Afabar

Outbreak Versus BCB

Due to 3 second internal CD, BCB lost a lot. May the 3 point in BCB could be better in Outbreak ?

Let's take an average BCB of 1.000 with a slow weapon on main hand, and 400 for a fast weapon on off hand . And due to internal CD, we could average 1 BCB every 5 second, and half of the BCB are done with main hand.

This make an average of 1400 every 10s or 140 DPS.

With a cycle :
PS->IT->BS->PS->IT->BS
PS>IT->IT->PS>IT->IT


You use 4 PS in 20s or 1 PS every 5s. That means that Outbreak, to be better sould increase damage by 140 DPS or hit 700 harder than without Outbreak.
Plague strike have been increased, so it should average 1200. With the glyph (+ 60%), this make an average of 1920.
So Plague strike with Outbreak should be about 2784 so a DPS upgrade from about 173 DPS.

That is a not so huge difference with BCB. But this shows that with a Slow/Fast setup outbreak could replace BCB.

 

Shankublud

You loose HB and gain so much more...You're gaining a better Gargoyle, Plague Strike that has potential to actually do a decent amount of damage, Unholy blight which has always been good, New pet move (no idea how good this will be but it's a buff still), Killing machine didn't get changed tiers and Icy Touch will still hit like a truck. It's all balanced out really.

 

Infectus

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9614 imo

slow/fast is now baiscally required imo, and possibly even Slow/slow down the line.

the problem i'm seeing with most of these unholy DW builds that go for gargoyle is glaciel rot was a big reason IT hit so hard and now requires 23 points to max out.

Personally the changes are a bit harsh across the board, BB rotations seem to have been completely obliterated and now capping expertise is close to required to maintain a good clean rotation.

The one thing I did like was the change to Unholy Presence. Looks like rune starvation wont be a problem anymore for Unholy Knights running in Unholy Presence.

 

Terala

And yet on another sidenote: it seems like they cloned glyph of frost strike for death coil, well that sounds like another push towards deep unholy specs for dw. (something like ghoul, it and deathcoil

 

• Mongoe

I'm not ready to throw in the towel until we see the build that makes it to live, but that is just a little too rosy of an assessment for me.

• Necrosis now only effects MH strikes
• There is now an internal CD on BCB
• HB (One-Fifth of our current total damage) is is now out of reach
• 10% reduction in damage buff from Black Ice

I haven't gotten on to the PTR, but switching to obliterate and a better scourge strike would not appear to fill in what was lost.

I had thought there were posts from Ghostcrawler saying DW was going to be a supported option for DKs (In all honesty, why allow us to DW if our talents clearly favor the use of slow 2handers?). The only thing I can think of is that this is an intentional reset to zero essentially for DW and they will steadilly buff our damage over the life of the PTR to where they want it by rescinding some of the support talent nerfs and potentially even adding some buffs like the mentioned but not implemented addition of shadow damage to Black Ice.

We'll see.

I'm thinking of something like this to maximize spell damage with what is left.

 

Gaqus

Anyone other than me planning on doing some PTR tests today? These shuffles have posed great complications for the DW builds and I myself am absolutely mortified given that I've designed my own gear to fit DW perfectly.

I'm currently running 0/20/51 build and in an attempt to save the IT spam build I've been trying to create a spec which may still be competetive. This is what came out of it: 0/28/43

Basically I'm thinking I'd stick to my usual rotation being PS IT IT BS BS UB --> PS IT IT IT IT DC DC. Perhaps given the points in RPM I'd be trying out unholy presence given that it should allow me to some times fire off 3x DCs.

I'll report back when I've been allowed to do some testing on PTR with this spec. In theory, with these changes I do believe it should be able to be competetive and while I know that this will be missing vital talents in Gargoyle, RoR and WP, I'm thinking the UB with increased damage from BI and the 10% crit on IT along with KM, in theory should be able to provide with competetive DPS.

Will report back when I've done some actual testing. Feel free to give some comments on the spec as it is now. I do see problems with it, but also see potential.

EDIT: Changed the spec to not get Ghoul Frenzy. Did not notice it was a channeled spell. Also just noticed the Glyph changes and for this spec I would be using Glyph of Plague Strike, Icy Touch and Unholy Blight.

 

Aisuken

MMO champion just added a list of updated Glyphs:

Of particular interest I think is the Death Coil glyph. An unholy presence rotation with lots of cheap death coils could benefit a lot from the extra shadow damage we will be getting from Black Ice now.

I used this rotation for a while as 0/44/27 with the FS glyph and it was pretty good, and fun (although a finger cramper)

IT > PS > FS > IT > PS > FS > BS > BS > Dump
IT > PS > FS > IT > PS > FS > IT > IT > Dump

of course you'd want to substitute DC for FS, and add in UB somewhere. I think the question now is what Glyphs to use? IT and Ghoul glyphs are probably still going to keep their spots, but with the new PS and a crazy buffed PS glyph, as well as this new DC Glyph, and maybe even the UB glyph, who knows.

http://zomggamer.blogspot.com/

 

kamiu

I am thinking this (posted in 3.1 thread).

Another thought would be this spec and glyph setup which obviously revolves around UB and DC (as opposed to HB and FS in the first train of thought). I'm not sure about the rotation though, especially because i'm still guessing whether plaguestrikes should eat the death runes or not.

 

Shalymar

I always loved DW and I will continue to use DW until Blizzard removed this ability from the game. I think many of us who went with a hybrid build like 32/39 uses IT and HB as the main focus of our builds. If these changes go through, we could still DW but change our focus. As soon as I can get on the PTR I will test this. In theory here is how it works.

Rotation:

Plague Strike
Icy Touch
Obliterate
Blood Boil
Blood Boil
RP Dump

Plague Strike
Icy Touch
Obliterate
Plague Strike
Plague Strike
RP Dump

Glyphs:
Plague Strike: +60% damage
Obliterate: +20% damage
Death Coil:Reduces the cost of Death Coil by 8 runic power.

Build - Talent 0/18/53

Frost -
I went down the frost tree until I can get Annihilation (Tier 3) and Icy Talons (Tier 3)

Unholy -
Vicious Strike (Tier 1) - Increase the crit strike chance by 6% and crit damage by 30% of your Plague Strike, Death Strike and Scourge Strike.

Outbreak (Tier 3) - Increase the damage of Plague Strike by 45% and Scourge Strike by 30%.

Desecration (Tier 7) now causes all Plague Strikes to cause the desecrated ground effect. Targets in the area are slowed by 10/20/30/40/50% by the grasping arms of the dead while you cause 1/2/3/4/5% additional damage while standing on the unholy ground. Lasts 12 sec.

Unholy Aura (Tier 7) renamed Improved Unholy Presence and changed to: While in Blood Presence or Frost Presence, you retain 8/15% increased movement speed from Unholy Presence, and your runes finish their cooldowns 5/10% faster in Unholy Presence.

Bone Shield (Tier 8) +2% more damage.
Epon Plague (Tier 9) - +13% damage taken

Rage of Rivendare (Tier 10) spell and abilities deal 10% more damage

Blood Presence - Strengthens the Death Knight with the presence of blood, increasing damage by 15% and healing the Death Knight by 4% of damage dealt. Only damage dealt to targets that grant experience or honor can trigger this heal. Only one Presence may be active at a time.

With Imp UA I gain the +15% damage bonus from Blood Presence and I retain the movement speed bonus from Unholy Presence.

------------------------------------------------------------------
The focus of my dps will be Plague Strike and Obliterate. I replaced Icy Touch with Plague Strike and Howling Blast with Obliterate. Same rotation as 32/39 really just different spells. Unholy Blight and Blood Boil will be my aoe dps ability.

Plague Strike now deals 50% weapon damage plus 189 and infects the target with Blood Plague.

Obliterate deals 100% weapon damage plus 292, and an additional 146 bonus damage per disease, but consumes the diseases.

Blood Boil’s damage increased to make up for Pestilence no longer doing damage.
Blood Boil now does some damage to undiseased targets and extra damage to diseased targets. Its radius has been decreased.

Plague Strike will do (+60%(Glyph) +50%(Plague Strike) +45%(Outbreak) +15%(Blood Presence) +13%(Epon) +10(RoR) +5%(Desecration) +2% (Bone Shield)) = 200% weapon damage +189. In theory PS will hit with a big punch.

Obliterate will do (+100%(OB) +20%(Glyph) +15%(Blood Presence) +13%(Epon) +10(RoR) +5%(Desecration) +2%(Bone Shield)) = 165% weapon damage +292 +438(146x3 disease)

Weapons: Slow/Fast - Duel Rune of the Fallen Crusader

Depending on your weapons, I calculate Plague Strike and Obliterate could hit for around 2k+ base and 5.4k+ crit.

Some napkin math:

Broken Promise:
One-Hand Sword
274 - 509 Damage Speed 2.50
(156.6 damage per second)

Plague Strike:
391.5 * 1.60(Glyph) * 1.50(PS) * 1.45(Outbreak) * 1.15(Blood Presence) * 1.13(Epon) * 1.10(RoR) * 1.05(Des) * 1.02 (BS) + 189 = 2,274

Crit:
2,085 * 2 * 1.30(Vicous Strike) = 5,914

Obliterate:
391.5 * 2(OB) * 1.20(Glyph) * 1.15(Blood Presence) * 1.13(Epon) * 1.10(RoR) * 1.05(Des) * 1.02 (BS) +292 +438(146x3 disease) = 2,168

Crit:
2,168 * 2 = 4,336

Add in:
Sigil of Awareness
Equip: Increases the damage dealt by your Scourge Strike and Obliterate abilities by 420.

OR

Deadly Gladiator's Sigil of Strife
Equip: Your Plague Strike ability also grants you 120 attack power for 6 sec.

Hateful Gladiator's Sigil of Strife
Equip: Your Plague Strike ability also grants you 106 attack power for 6 sec.

Also makes the T7 2piece and 4piece bonus worth having.
(2) Set: Increases the critical strike chance of your Obliterate and Scourge Strike abilities by 5%.
(4) Set: Your Obliterate and Scourge Strike generate an additional 10 Runic Power when used.

 

Dark-Juggernaut

Looks like they tossed dual wield down the nerf tree and it hit every stick on the way down. Time will tell, but I've got a feeling they really don't like dual wield.

Side-note: Fully glyphed/talented plague strike is looking to do 118% damage X'D

 

Torn

This looks interesting. Still, the HB nerf hurts badly. See here: http://elitistjerks.com/1117254-post268.html

 

Gaqus

Shalymar:

Do you have confirmation that IMP UA lets you retain the faster rune CDs when in Blood Presence, because if you don't have that, then I believe you missread the tooltip. It only retrains the 15% movement speed, but does not affect the rune CDs unless you are in Unholy presence already.

 

Shalymar

From the patch notes on MMO-Champion...

Unholy Aura (Tier 7) renamed Improved Unholy Presence and changed to: While in Blood Presence or Frost Presence, you retain 8/15% increased movement speed from Unholy Presence, and your runes finish their cooldowns 5/10% faster in Unholy Presence.

My main focus was the +15% damage bonus and movement speed increase so I can keep my boot enchant for dps.

 

Gaqus

Yes, that would be my point exactly. You retain increased movement speed from Unholy Presence, and your runes finish their cooldowns faster in Unholy Presence.

 

drazyw

Correct. Bliz has never been good on with their descriptions. But that's how I read it.

 

Shalymar

Fixed my original post =)

 

kudzupo

Alright, so I am up on the PTR. I tried out this build 0/45/26.

Rotation should have been: PS IT BS IT BS PS, PS IT IT IT PS IT in unholy presence
Currently BotN is bugged and not giving death runes, so I had to do PS IT BS IT BS PS only, weaving in FS's and keeping up UB

I did not have a FS glyph, nor a PS glyph, but I did have the IT glyph (was also using BS glyph and ghoul glyph).

Missing all my macros and my UI too so that didnt help either :P.

Once BotN functions again, and I have the right glyphs I believe this could be a solid build. On live with 0/33/38 I do 2800-3000 on a target dummy. Here, with all of these problems I still managed 2500ish sustained. Ofc I would need to test it out in a raid.

Options, people!

edit: also, blood tap is bugged and doesn't work in combat

 

Dev93L

Don't ring the death knell yet. GC has said they want DW and 2h on par with each other. Like I posted in the 3.1 update thread, it's just the first day of testing, and too early to definitively make any statements. If anything, have fun watching Blizz change everything during the course of testing.