Do you use obliterate at all in this spec? I was wondering if Dirge might be more beneficial over Impurity in this build in order to have Obliterate generate a very large amount of RP and allow more frequent FS attacks off of Killing Machine. I'm also wondering, why gargoyle when the RP can be spent on FS crits?

I am confused on how 0/32/39 is being considered as the better of the DW specs. I spec I saw earlier in this thread, 0/44/27, seems like it would be the ideal DW build. You're giving up crypt fever (which isn't that great in a dw build), desecration, and bone shield but getting BotN, FS, and GoG, as well as annihilation (3% crit never hurt).

On a side note, I am a bit lost on which glyphs to take for a DW spec, as none seem to jump out at me.

I liked the idea of this build, but I felt some things were out of place, so I created this build
0/32/39 any feedback on this would be great. (not sure if this exact build has been created, if it has than whatever.)

That's because they're all somewhere between terrible and mediocre for DW. Plague Strike will add some damage, but not much. Icy Touch is ok, but just about every DK will have it anyway.

I don't use the IT glyph. I'm never starved of RP in this spec and the extra damage on IT is quite noticeable in my spec (10/31/30).

A few notes on this spec:

After being skeptical I do see potential in this spec once you get a decent epic set. By no means will it ever be better than Unholy, but it will outperform Blood (and the Mages will love you for Razorice) due to the more consistent spikiness of Howling Blast over Obliterate.

My main concern with Dual Wield is that alot of abilities just don't hit hard enough. Howling Blast can crit very hard, and buffing it would make it's PvP use abusive, so that isn't an option. Icy Touch also hits very hard, but just hard enough. Death Coil is the main RP dump, and it doesn't seem to be hitting quite hard enough (though that could change with better weapons, I'll have to see).

White damage and weapon damage based abilities are the only frowny part, it's hard to judge now as I'm using two blue weapons but even with epics I don't see this getting any more than maybe 15% better. They just don't do enough.

Today Patchwork with DW specc 0/32/39 | Fight duration: 3.01 minutes | 5191 DPS
Withou army of death it would be 4900+ DPS. You just can see the army of death dps in your own recount in wws and on the recount of all other players it were 4900+ DPS.

Directupload.net - D59e6kcqz.jpg

could you give some more Information about that?

Like: Rotation, Hit, Expertise, Haste, Buffs, Pots, Flasks, Runes...

i would be glad if you could post this

Here is an interesting thing I noticed today while grinding low level mobs to get my cooking skill up... Maybe you guys can clarify this:

I noticed half the time I would get bored and Icy Touch or Rime // Howling Blast one of those pesky Mottled Worgs, Rune Strike would be activated. Is this a tooltip error that not only allows the strike if an attack was dodged, parried, or blocked, but a spell was resisted, even slightly? And if that were the case, would that make the Necrosis talent that much more powerful with the fact that it can potentially activate every strike?

So yeah, Patchwerk kill dual wielding as 0/44/27 garnered 4800 Dps using a blue rep sword from Ebon Blade in the main hand. Used Flask of Relentless Assault and 60ap Great Feast food buff.

Wow Web Stats

I'm sure I could have cleaned up my rotation and used my gargoyle at a better time (Reflection of Torment proc?) for better damage output too. This was my first time trying out this spec so learning the ropes so to speak netted a pretty pleasant surprise.

This spec is not only competitive single target damage, it's absolutely crazy on aoe encounters of any sort.

Since Obliterate is so weak for dual wielding, I ended up just using a double Icy Touch in place of the Obliterate with my Death Runes for more Rime procs, more Runic Power, and more damage overall. Annihilation is still better than Runic Power Mastery though because it increases crit on all your strikes (which, while small, is still more damage) where Runic Power Mastery adds no dps whatsoever. With hitting Icy Touch so often, Chill of the Grave, and the Icy Touch glyph the amount of runic power generation in this build is more than enough to cover Gargoyle up time and then some.

Thaddius was kinda funny with a max Howling Blast crit for 25417...

I saw this DW spec (0/32/39) and it is very interesting. I plan to respec to this tonight with a slight variation. Here is the rotation I plan to test.

Some info on how I came up with the RP values.

Glyph of Icy Touch
Major Glyph
Use: Your Icy Touch does 10% less damage but generates 10 additional runic power.

Chill of the Grave - Rank 2/2
Your Chains of Ice, Howling Blast, Icy Touch and Obliterate generate 5 additional runic power.

Runic Power Mastery - Rank 2/3
Increases your maximum Runic Power by 20.

An ability which uses 1 rune will generate 10 RP and 2 runes will generate 15 RP

IT: 10(Base) + 10(Glyph) + 5(CotG) = 25RP
HB: 15(Base) + 5(CotG) = 20RP

*** DW Spec (0/32/39) ***

Start with - 2F - 2U - 2B - 0RP

Using:
Unholy Presence: Increases attack speed by 15%, increases movement speed by 15%, and reduces the global cooldown on all Death Knight abilities by 0.5 sec.

Combat Begins
IT - (1F)-----(0s) reset @ 10 (+25 RP Total:25)
PS - (1U)----(1s) reset @ 11 (+10 RP Total:35)
HB - (1U/1F)(2s) reset @ 12 (+20 RP Total:55)
BS - (1B)----(3s) reset @ 13 (+10 RP Total:65) ** 1 Death Rune **
BS - (1B)----(4s) reset @ 14 (+10 RP Total:75) ** 1 Death Rune **
DC - (40 RP)(5s)--------------(-40 RP Total:35)
6s - 10s 2 Auto Swing

--- 10 sec Rune Reset
IT - (1F)-----(10s) (+25 RP Total:60)
PS - (1U)----(11s) (+10 RP Total:70) ^^^ (Blood Plague & Frost Fever Refresh - Ends @ 12sec )
HB - (1U/1F)(12s) (+20 RP Total:90)
IT - (1D)----(13s) (+25 RP Total:115)
DC - (40 RP)(14s) (-40/-50 RP Total:75/65) ** Summon Gargoyle (50 RP)
IT - (1D)----(15s) (+25 RP Total:100/90)
DC - (40 RP)(16s) (-40 RP Total:60/50)
DC - (40 RP)(17s) (-40 RP Total:20/10) ***
18s - 19s 1 Auto Swing

** Summon Gargoyle
For maximum effectiveness
Persists for 10 sec plus 1 sec per 8 runic power up to 1 min.
Total Uptime: 24 sec or killed.

*** Save RP incase you need to cast:
Anti-Magic Shell 20 Runic Power
Rune Strike 20 Runic Power
Mind Freeze 20 Runic Power
Icebound Fortitude 20 Runic Power

The problem with trying to come up with a very locked in and tight rotation is Rime. When it goes off your HB will only give you 5 RP but you'll still have your runes. You can either Oblit right away and get its RP or wait 6 seconds and HB.

Either way, you're going to have wonky rune timings, wonky RP, and a helluva time figuring out where you are in your rotation.

If this is the case, are we being put into a situation of "spell priority" similar to S.Priests?

I've found that I'm never really running the same cycle and having to judge when to use a Death Rune.

Also: I haven't been able to find a single person on my server yet who has the Obliterate Glyph. Are there other options to use in place of this? I don't recall what I'm using offhand (at work right now) but need to figure out a way to better fit Obliterate into my cycle if it's a DPS increase.

To a degree. As Shalymar says you're still going to need a rotation. It may just be a lose one.

PS, IT, HB, BS BS, DC, XX

At XX you have 35 RP if you don't take Dirge. A frost rune will be up in 1 second. However, if that HB was Rimed you only have 20 RP but you can HB again.

Conversely you could have thrown an OB in there (probably between the BS) to use your runes and at XX you'd have 40 RP and a frost rune would have just activated.


It's just that OB does not do all that much damage for a one-hander compared to HB. Also, in his propsed spec OB would clear your diseases, making OB very undesirable.


(As a note: 2 of the points that are in Desecration need to be in Uholy aura.)

I am considering move 2 points into NotD based upon this upcoming change.

Night of the Dead -- now grants 40/70% passive area spell avoidance to your pet in addition to its current effects.

You probably should. And 2 into unholy aura. I don't think you understand how good Unholy aura is for a raid.

Oh I know Unholy Aura is worth the 2 points. The question I have is taking 2 points from Crypt Fever worth it to put into Night of the Dead. I thinking it will once that change goes through.

I was definitely underwhelmed with Desecration in a raid situation and was planning on respeccing this evening for when we finish up Naxx10. (hopefully we'll have everyone w/ some resist gear to get past Saph) I agree that Unholy Aura is nice though. I didn't realize how helpful it could be until I didn't have it anymore and didn't want to poo out a Death Gate to respec just for that.

Wow Web Stats - Our WWS for the first part of Naxx and our first time in there. I definitely need to learn to tighten up my rotation. I felt like I was playing whack-a-mole sometimes. Overall I'm fairly happy with where I am considering most of my gear is quest/instance blues. (And for some reason my shoulders are showing up w/o a gem. Meh.)

Take from Desecration, not Crypt Fever.

2 into Unholy aura, 2 into NotD, and hell, toss the last one into corpse explosion. It's hilarious and getting a buff.

You lose the 5% dps from Desecration, but considering the excessive amount of movement on many fights (making unholy aura so great) desecration's value while not 5/5 (or at least 2/5) drops quite a bit.

Raid-buffed with slow-fast KM, Annihilation, and a standard DW Rime+Death Rune rotation, FS crit rate is ~60% in contrast to DC crit rate of ~30%. At those crit rates with GoG and Impurity, FS scaling is virtually identical to DC scaling, but FS takes a significant portion of KM procs from IT for a net DPS loss. Remember also that KM and BCB both prefer fast-fast. Without GoG, 1H FS loses big to DC.

BS accounts for ~3.5% of your DPS with a standard DW Rime+Death Rune rotation, so BotN is ~0.525% DPS boost over Reaping. GoG is ~2.36% DPS increase in a standard Rime/Death Rune rotation assuming a 3-sec KM build-time for your HB. Your total DPS contribution from strikes is ~4%, Annihilation increases the crit chance on those ~4% by 3% to bring your total DPS boost from BotN+GoG+Annihilation over Reaping alone to ~3%.

BCB accounts for ~6-8% of your DPS depending on your weapon speed. The first point in Crypt Fever gives a 1.25 multiplier to your BCB damage for a ~1.5-2% DPS increase (plus a tiny boost to BS on the order of Annihilation). Bone Armor gives a 2% DPS increase, therefore with ~50-75% Bone Armor uptime, Crypt Fever+Bone Armor+Reaping will match BotN+GoG+Annihilation on DPS. Add some Desecration uptime to that and the Reaping build clearly wins.

Doesn't BCB favor slow/fast because offhand hits can proc main hand BCB? Or was that fixed?

I've been quite successful with 10/31/30 this week, my Patchwerk fights however are quite useless datawise (had the debuff in 25 for most of the fight(was too stupid to ever look at the tooltip to see it's -90% stats and not -50% health, so I was missing ~2k AP and ~4% melee crit) so I only had 4100 DPS and I tanked in 10).

10/31/30 or 0/32/39 is really a matter of preference, 10/31/30 is the more 'secure' spec offering threat reduction and a constant AP bonus while 0/32/39 is the ideal tank 'n spank fight spec that relies on Desecration and Bone Shield being up all the time. 0/44/27 may beat 2h specs but it's simply inferior to the other DW specs from any theorycrafting point of view and my personal tests.

Assuming the other threads are correct (I haven't tested it myself), BCB is normalized. This means that while slow main-hands slightly increase the off-hand BCB damage, faster main-hands will greatly increase the main-hand BCB damage (and Killing Machine procs).

We should compile a list of things that might help improving the DW rotations and post it on the PTR forums. One thing that is mentioned very frequently is how to handle the Rime procs without messing up the rotation. OB doesn't seem to be the final answer because it's very weak with a 1H weapon.

So far, the PTR patch notes do not include any DW-specific changes. We should try to give constructive feedback.