That's a mistake on my part--I couldve sworn vengeance was a 21-23, not 25-28 :-/.

Ok, back to 21/50 and 3/3 being on top. It's only about a 62 dps boost from 3/2 to 3/3 because of the extra second in the rotation so I'm almost certain that there's a way to get more... Maybe.

In looking over several pages, many people are saying that the 21/50 build beats out the 23/48. I currently run 23/48 over 21/50 because I noticed my dps is higher with VoTW. I was wondering if this is because with better gear the increased damage from Tundra Stalker scales better than the extra strength from VoTW. I'm still gearing up (leveled my hunter, took a break then came back with a DK) so my gear is a couple of raid pieces (thank god for VoA) and some crafted stuff.

It's going to depend a lot on how much strength you have and what percentage of your total AP your Strength provides.

If 6% of your STR provides enough AP to match a 10% yellow attack damage increase, then Vot3W is slightly better because of the extra point of expertise. If not, Tundra Stalker is better.

We aren't comparing 3pts of Vot3W against 5 pts of Tundra Stalker, it's being compared on a 1 for 1 basis. Although, after looking at it i'm pretty sure that it would be hard for 2% strength to be as good as 2% damage on 70% of your dps.

Yep. At my gear/stats, 1 Vot3W : 1 TS = 6 : 7 (24 : 28 dps).

Hey i was just sittin around thinking up new builds when i thought of something like this

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...h=000000000000

Has anybody thought of, or tried a build like this? I whent online and tried, the rotation would include 3 Obliterates in the 2nd part seeing as you have more disease uptime (sorta like the unholy 3 x Scourge strike rotation) and it seemed to up my dps some. In the normal build i can just barely hit 2k dps selfbuffed on the boss dummy with the normal rotation, trying this i managed to stay pretty constantly at 2300, which is at least 300 dps increase, any thoughts? Im just throwing it out there for opinions.

I could be mistaken, but i THINK the current discription of Obliterates glyph is bugged, and it already doesn't decrease the disease damage as it is, someone correct me if im wrong.

I don't recall, i've not personally checked with and without the glyph, but I believe that the glyph still allows full disease damage and x2 Oblit still wins in the dps comparison.

As for the posted build with epidemic, are you using PS or not using PS? Cause I don't see how you could swing 3 OB in the 2nd rotation unless the first rotation was IT PS OB BS BS. In which case, you're getting the same number of OB as the PS-less rotation, but you're swapping an IT for a PS and losing a GCD that you could be spending on FS.

My recomendation/suggestion would be to pull all 5 points out of Tundra Stalker, and the 1 point from UA.
You would be losing 10% spell and ability damage + 5 Expertise, and a cooldown for 10% Str which effects GCD.

In return you could spend those points in Blood, netting you 4% Str, 4 Expertise, 20% damagage and 40% bonus damage per disease for BS, 1% Bonus to physical damage x3 stacks per any crit, 1% Str, 99% chance per Rotation for a 10% attk damage buff to the entire raid.

They seem comparable to me, with Tundra Stalker seeming to top out with the 10% bonus, but to me the raid buff would make it worth the blood talents, unless of course, you are already getting this buff from another player.

I wouldn't, you are giving up 5 exp and 10% damage to all yellow damage for 4 exp, 5% str, and a raid buff that can be provided by either an enhancement shaman or blood DK. It will also be less reliable.

You are also giving up 10% str for 1/3 of a minute.

Give it a shot, it may work for you.

My desktop is out of commission; could someone with PTR access test the latest obliterate glyph?

This new description seems to imply that it will increase the damage of the entire ability (both weapon damage and disease damage) as opposed to the previous description which only affects the weapon damage portion of the attack. It seems as though this is different from what was mentioned earlier as an 'incorrect tooltip catching up'. It's possibly just a re-wording, but the potential difference warrants a look.

If the glyph is in fact changing from simply affecting weapon damage to affecting the entire ability, we may want to look again at the 14/50/7 spec instead of the the 21/50/0 psless rotation.

Thinking about the next patch, I am trying to decide where I should pull a point to place into RPM so that I can do 4 FS in a row.

With the 21/50 build that I currently run, I am thinking that there are 5 places I can pull the 1 talent point from.

First choice is 1 point from tundra stalker, not my favorite choice.

2nd would be unbreakable armor, which might be doable, but perhaps not the best choice overall.

3rd would be deathchill which seems to be the best choice currently.

4th could be 1 point from killing machine depending on the proc rate.

Last place to pull from would be Vot3W, which again doesn't seem to be a great idea to pull from there as it reduces my dps and survivability.

It looks like deathchill would be the better choice to pull from since I have seen many times that I popped it and had a KM proc at the same time before I could dump it which is a complete waste. I don't like the idea of getting rid of UB because not only does that give the str bonus, but the RP it provides would help a lot on getting to 130 RP for a x4 FS dump.

I guess post patch we'll have to test and see if 4x FS is a dps increase. I suspect it will be, but you never know. 3x FS currently is better than 2x FS, so I could only assume that 4x FS is better then 3x FS. Although, we've gotten up to 8 GCDs, which means that 4x FS is the max we could do and still refresh IT close to on time. At least with 4x FS, we're getting the most out of each IT, letting it tic all the way out.

It was my understanding that with the patch they were fixing it so if you activated Death Chill while KM was up, it would not use up both with one attack. I would think that depending on what they do to KM that may be the place to grab a point.

Just ran a bit of testing on PTR, and it did looked fixed.

Activate DC, KM procs, hit FS it crits and consumes KM, DC buff is still up, hit OB it crits and consumes DC. It might still be buggy because i can't check if the OB crit was normal crit or DC crit.

Could you explain how you're coming up with this?

The magic of algebra and statistics.

Also, check the spreadsheet thread; I haven't made an update post but my sheet got an update yesterday and is going to get another before 12p est. Don't mess with anything in grey cells.

If anyone can test New KM with a 2H and confirm that it is proccable off of yellow swings (tooltip suggests as much) and is now a PPM (5/min at 5/5?), I'll sneak that change in as well.

@Feorthas
In the DW threat they tested KM with a 2hander and it was ~5 PPM, was like 4.83ppm over 10 mins with no haste effects. DW was ~9.5ppm un-hasted and ~13.8ppm hasted. So the haste from IIT will give us prolly 6 PPM, which is a huge upgrade from 1-3 PPM.

@Bloodwarden
21/50/0
This is at least really close the the "generic 2H frost" build. Some people are 17/54/0, some have Deathchill, some don't, some like 23/48, but 21/50 is a good generic.

A lot of people like IT OB BS OB Dump (the one you're using).

Personally, for bosses I've found that OB OB (IT BS) (rotate the IT and BS each pass), has worked out best for me. And I always replace OB with HB if KM has proc'd (and wasn't used by a FS).

Glyph of OB, Glyph of IT, Glyph of whatever you want here. Post patch, that 3rd spot will definately be FS Glyph.

You can macro BT with UA to use whenever you have just a death rune up to pop UA and refresh the death rune instantly, works great right after my 2xOB. OB OB (UA macro) IT BS.

Hi all,

With the upcoming changes to Necrosis (up to 20% shadow damage on your auto attacks), would specing into the unholy tree rather than blood be a possible option?

Using this build for example:
Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

You will have 5% more strength, Blood-caked Blade, and Necrosis. How does this tradeoff measure up against not speccing into blood for Bladed Armor, 2H spec, and Dark Conviction?

I was not running wowwebstats last night, regrettably, but with an abom's might spec last night I managed a hair over 4k dps on patchwerk; I don't have 4pc yet and my gear is middling. If nobody in your raid has the buff, the two specs seem to be at least even, or close to it.

I would like to get on the PTR and test this. Unfortunately i have no idea what rotation i would use for it since the spec has epidemic in it.

I have tested this using the unholy dps rotation with OB instead of SS

IT, PS, BS, BS, OB -> FS dump
OB, OB, OB, FS Dump

I was about 100 dps higher on the Boss dummy in Ebon Hold as 44/27 Frost/Unholy 2H than the Blood/Frost builds I have tested.

**OB on the PTR is generating 0 RP (15 RP with Chill to the Grave and 4 pc rather than 30 like it should). So Obviously FS dmg should go up quite a bit as the bug is making us very RP starved, I am only getting 1-2 FS's in per dump.**

I had tested this build before and it did pretty well in Unholy Presence aswell since it has alot of GCD's when you rattling off 3-4 FS's per dump.

The only problem with it is:
1) Pet survivability- I used the Glyph of the Ghoul, he is doing a good chunch of dmg but with no NotD he will likely die in AoE fights.
2) NoThreat reduction- Not a huge issue as some of your dmg is coming from the Ghoul, its not a problem for DW 32/39 so I don't see it as a problem for 2H builds using the same ideas.