0/44/27 is the 2H DPS build we're talking about here, yes?

I actually use 0/44/27 *dual-wield* at the moment, and have not noticed a loss of damage at all. Does swapping to a 2H version really improve things that much?

Hey guys, I'm a frosty dps virgin so here I go: personally I'm seeing that 44/27 2h mod is significantly higher sustained than any form of 32/39 DW that I've tried. One thing I've noticed however (besides Oblit and HB being broken) is some little changes in the rotation. As opposed to some, I'm using Oblit rarely (only after I use HB on rime proc) and using IT to try and eat up KM and generate FF procs. I'm seeing a ridiculous amounts of KM procs with betrayer, so I don't see why I would wait to use them and risk overlap. I believe I'm also seeing higher HB numbers than I am with oblit (glyphed) so I prioritize that over oblit. So far the 1st half of my rotation is pretty stationary, but the 2nd half changes up from time to time - can't decide if it should be PS/IT/IT/IT/HB or HB/PS/IT/IT/IT or something else


Edit: I barely pulled off 4300 dps on patch25 tonight...No enhance shammy/fury warrior/sunders. 0/44/27 with betrayer

Also, I'm seeing quite good things from frost. I did 3800 on patch 10man tonight. I know it isn't a lot, but our raid was lacking on melee buffs. No kings, might, or sunders. Considering I was doing 3900 with full raid buffs prior to the patch, I'm looking forward to 25man naxx to see how much higher I can push that.

I am seeing this, and it's really messing with my ability to frost strike.

So far I've tried re-equipping and logging out and back in, but no luck.

This was on the ptr and reported, looks like it went to live.

I can confirm this tonight I was going to test the 3/50/18 build tonight on Sarth + 3d, since it's movement heavy I figured it would be a good test for a real raid environment, however, the loss of runic power from obliterate hurt quite a bit and I couldn't get any good testing done.

I hope they hotfix it soon as it's really bad for frost.

Can anyone explain to me what the big advantage of a 0/44/27 or 3/50/18 is?

As i understand Deep-Frost-2H its heavyly relaying on OB and FS und i cant see what unholy subspec would bring to support this.

Blood subspec clearly brings more weapondmg, alot more crit, more ap, more strength and exp (if you go for 21/50/0).

Unholy subspec brings better PS which you dont use, longer deseases which has proofed to be no advantage in the past, since ps-less double-OB has been the favoured rotation. Necrosis and bcb which builts on whitedmg which clearly isnt a big deal for 2H Speccs in general.
A perma Ghoul which is going to be more dead than alive without NotD and maybe a nerfed Gargoyle which was been even pre 3.0.8 no real alternative to FS for a frost 2H built. Last but not least impurity which support only IS on the given Rotation.

I havent done the math on that yet but on first sight all of this seems to me rather pointless. Maybe someone can give me some hints what i might be overlooking...

Does Obliterate benefit from Impurity? I was under the impression that it does not as it is not a spell, but an ability, but I've been wrong in the past.

i.e. In the text of the Glacier Rot talent, it says "Your Icy Touch, ..., and Howling Blast spells do extra dmg etc," however, in Might of Mograine and Guile of Gorfiend it says "Your X, ..., Obliterate abilities do Y more dmg."

Please correct me if im wrong.

No you're damn right for OB but FS is a little different.

Obliterate damage was calculated before armor reduction. But also without taking into account a boss has 13083 armor in LK.

I'll do the math for some complete numbers to compare with and I'll see it is possible to swap to a:

OB>OB>BS>BS
IT*6>FS

rotation. Of course the 1.1 damage (and 1.1*1.1 for OB) modifiers missing in the 1st rotation might lower Dps.

I guess you refer by "a little different" to not being dogeable, etc. As far as i can see this doesnt change the fact that its a "strike" and not a "spell" and therefore working just as OB, BS, PS, ...

As far as i understand neither OB nor FS get the bonus AP from impurity, or is the impurity tooltip completely wrong and its applying to all ablilities, spells und strikes?

No what I meant is that FS uses special attack mechanics (8% hit) but deals Frost damage (unmitigated) and is buffed by EpB/CoE and other magical damage buffs.

It's an ability but it deals Magic Damage (just like SS which is why on a 13083 armor boss SS hits for almost the same numbers as OB).

Never said they did.

Just saying that FS/SS have their ass sitting in a strange boat that fcks up ArP as a stat for Frost and Unholy builds since they deal magic damage even though OB/BS/Aattack would benefit from it.

I'm willing to hand my ass over to a dev if in exchange OB "ignores all armor"... would be slighty OP in PvP but who cares!

It's a sacrifice I would do for the DK community but the dev better sign a contract or something like that or I'll be double fucked.

Thanks for clarification in that Point. So what else is the point in unholy subspec for deep-frost 2h if its clearly not impurity?

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft slight mod from DW spec

This is all IT and FS spam, with FS glyph and Unholy presence. Icy reach is just a personal preference.

When gargoyle is out you'll still have plenty of time and RP to do more than IT spam to feed it, you will be very busy with this spec.

Using HB during KM is not so much a priority on single targets as FS hits much harder this time.

I'm not one to stick to rotations but generally I just IT, PS, HB, BS, BS, RP dumps then alternate IT and FS on the next rotation and so on.

Not a fan of OB, for this spec it just doesn't hit hard enough.

Frost Strike is not like Scourge Strike.

Scourge Strike:"An unholy strike that deals 60% of weapon damage as Shadow damage plus 190.5, and an additional 95.25 bonus damage per disease."

Frost Strike:"Instantly strike the enemy, causing 60% weapon damage plus 69 as Frost damage. Can't be dodged, blocked, or parried."

The key difference is Scourge Strike "deals 60% of weapon damage as Shadow damage" while Frost Strike "causing 60% weapon damage." Scourge Strike converts the melee damage to shadow damage while Frost Strike, in no way, converts that melee damage to damage of any given school. The additional damage dealt by Frost Strike is frost damage.

If you say so

I'll let you do the boring part on math with your stats and 13083 Boss armor.

Then tell me FS isn't elemental damage.

If you want I'll help you figure it out for yourself the easy way:

Get naked. As in totally naked. Equip a Grey/White weapon with no stats.

Dps the WB Dummy.

Then ask a warrior to sunder the dummy.

Dps again.

Compare FS damage (average damage and not total damage).

But I believe that even before you get to try that out your false comment might be trashed by a load of angry Dks who know what they're talking about.

There is an even shorter way to go around it:

Read the tooltip correctly.

Frost Strike Rank 6
40 Runic Power Melee Range
Instant
Requires Melee Weapon
Instantly strike the enemy, causing 60% weapon damage plus 150 as Frost damage. Can't be dodged, blocked, or parried.

You're welcome.

This is entirely wrong. Hit a warrior with frost strike, then hit a mage. They will hit for (approximately) the same damage. (EDIT) Beat to the punch!

And for those who are curious, here's what you get from a 0/44/27 build to replace the extra crit and AP:

-Permanent ghoul (~700 dps)
-Gargoyle (not sure if nerfed is a better RP use than FS with a 2H, but it I bet it probably still is if used when procs are up)
-Necrosis (at 20% now, much better)
-BCB (meh)
-5% strength (ravenous dead + shadow of death)
-VIRULENCE, NOT EPIDEMIC
-NO OUTBREAK
-Impurity (for IT and diseases alone it's worth it, not to mention AOE with HB).

What you lose:

-Tundra stalker (5 expertise and 10% damage)
-Bladed armor (~400 ap)
-Subversion (9% oblit crit)
-Dark Conviction (5% everything crit)

Here's an example of a proper 0/44/27 build. IMO, it's worth it.

Why 3/3 RPM instead of 2/3 and 1/1 Lichborne?

Hey guys, I'm trying to understand which build you are referring to as 0/44/27 (if 2h or dw) and what's he rotation to use for it (for example if to use obliterate or not) and which glyphs are better for it
Any help pls? I'm new to frost tree

Tnx

Annihilation is no good since OB hits like a pussy as 44/27 and is a waste of 2 runes (HB hits harder), HB should be your only 2 rune attack unless you want that 3% crit otherwise points can be better spent elsewhere.

EDIT: Its even worth putting 3 points from annihilation into NoCS for DW/2H spec

I'm thinking 3/5 Impurity and 2/2 Dirge deals more damage than 5/5 impurity.

Impurity only applies to IT and Summon Gargoyle (Yes it benefits from it) and the difference between 3/5 and 5/5 on IT and Garg would be:


Garg:

0.42*1.15 = 0.483 Without Impurity

0.42*1.25 = 0.525 With Impurity

IT:

0.1*1.15 = 0.115 Without Impurity

0.1*1.25 = 0.125 With Impurity

Dirge on the other hand is an extra 5 RP on OB.

With 4pt7/CotG/Dirge OB would be ((15+5)+5)+10 = 35 RP per OB.

With Garg losing 40% damage (30 seconds duration and -20% damage) - only 1 IT per rotation and FS being the RP dump and not DC I tend to believe that 5 RP per OB would be superior.

In a IT>OB>OB>BS
IT>OB>BS>OB rotation we would get an extra 20 RP.

Every 2 rotations we get an extra 1.25 FS.

Depending on gear I believe that extra 1.25 FS would deal more damage then Garg/IT with 5/5 Impurity.

Zurm is using a 2h for his 0/44/27 build.

And a glyphed OB with [Sigil of Awareness] will deal similar damage to HB.

Also OB has 32% Cc from talents.

HB also fucks up Rime procs in rotations - generates less RP than HB with 4pt7 - Eats up KM procs that would be reserved for FS otherwise.

As for 3/5 Imp 2/2 Dirge vs 5/5 Imp it allows you to have better KM proc using since you can weave FS in between OB.