True, but you don't have the talents to make the ghoul more powerful. It will have MUCH less strength/stamina, meaning it will actually die much faster and do only about 70% damage. To me, a ghoul is not worth much untalented, because for any non-patchwerk boss it will get demolished... quickly.

Fallen crusader for a 2H. Our mages were saying that with this patch FFB was no longer the superior raiding spec... I would expect mages won't be FFB for long. Razorice or Cinderglacier are only really options for DW.

Have you ever used obliterate on a raid boss in a 25 man? In no way does HB even come remotely close when you have [Sigil of Awareness], the obliterate glyph, and 4pc T7 (not in damage, but RP generation) when the target has a major and minor armor debuff, and you have all the extra ap. Lets not even mention that due to the fact that HB is a spell, even if it DID hit harder it would have a MUCH lower crit rate, even without subversion. (EDIT) It seems you were confused and thought I was going DW. I would have posted in the DW thread if that was the case.

Yotka's point about 3/5 impurity and 2/2 dirge is probably correct though, I didn't think of that.

I'm just not seeing it. You're also forgetting 2h specialization, Unbreakable Armor, Butchery, and Veteran of the Third War in the "What you lose" column. So add

4% 2hander damage
5.3333% strength
2 Expertise
+2 RP per 10 seconds.

To what you lose. Perma-ghoul is flaky at best. It's gonna require micro managing to not die once we start learning new encounters in Ulduar and with no NoTD it can quickly become a no dps gain. I don't know what it's hitting for now, but gargoyle is also flaky. Just a low guesstimate that you're losing 2 Frost Strikes per rotation means that Gargoyle needs to do 8k-10k damage every 10 seconds depending on your crit rate and KM procs, and is still really squishy. I'd say there's probably a good chance it does more than that, but how much more? You gain extra expertise from Blood/TS, you gain extra spell hit from Unholy, kind of a wash in a way, but the advantage definitely goes to Blood/TS. Necrosis, BCB, and Impurity are all that I see on the list of what you gain that are definitely flat dps increase, but they're only a 20% increase to 20% of your damage, a decent proc, and an increased AP modifier to 8% of your damage (you might work this up to 15% if it includes Frost Fever and Rime procs). Compare this to a 10% increase to 75% of your damage (TS), a 9% increase to 20% of your damage (Sub), a 5% increase to everything that can crit, and a 4% increase to 80% of your damage (2hander spec). That ghouls gonna have to work awful hard when he's alive ;-)

Firstly, Cinderglacier and Lichbane are the two worst enchants.

Secondly, if the debuff averages 90% uptime, Razorice is barely short of Fallen Crusader; all of that +2% adds up really fast--it just doesn't quite make it (my numbers say it's ~90% as effective as Fallen Crusader, which adds 100 dps itself).

Furthermore, Necrosis/Impurity/BCB/pre-21pt UH do not make up for the lost blood talents and perma-ghoul frost (44/27) may not make up for the loss of the deep frost talents. I checked the former about a week ago (using the new numbers) and will try (heavy emphasis on *try*) to model 44/27 today; however, I'm not going to be a retard and spam out IT like a lobotomized monkey--I'll actually use a good max DPS rotation. I have no idea what to do with ghoul but I recall him being about 10-20% of an unholy friend's personal damage so I'll probably model personal output and then say "would ghoul beat/match frost sub-blood if he did 10-20% damage?".

Finally, stop threadcrapping this thread. I have my 'pages' set to 50 posts per and there was a whole new page--30 to 50 posts--composed of mostly useless, many of which are arguably reportable, posts that got discussion NOWHERE simply because most of the 44/27 discussion has been "zomg my new spec is teh awesum becuz frost dk is teh flavur of teh week becuz someone sed it wuz op now and perma-ghoul and gargoyle are also teh awsum so they must be in my spec".

I'm clearly exaggerating a bit here, and not every poster in the last 12-ish hours is responsible for this--but the quality of discussion in this thread has gone through the floor in the past few days and nobody seems to bring numbers to their side of the discussion from post 1; it's always "this spec makes me win at deeps!" and then, when pressed "well, the dummy has me posting bigger numbers than before" or some variation of "no, I haven't bothered doing napkin math or seeing if a spreadsheet supports what I'm trying to do". This needs to stop.

P.S. I've had / I'm having at least one discussion through PMs about the IT spam rotation that's pretty solid and I honestly don't mind talking about new rotations/specs/whatever in a manner backed up by somewhat credible argument (read: before/after numbers from a spreadsheet/sim. Any spreadsheet/sim, it doesn't have to be mine, especially considering that I don't really support custom rotations in UH Pres--my GCD doesn't change and I don't have 20 ability slots to fit all of the ability usage patterns). Regardless, I'm going to do the legwork for 44/27 to the best of my ability; however, I will go on a reporting spree to try and maintain some semblance of sanity in this thread if rules continue to be bent/broken to the same degree.

You need both for a frost build, it's not an option. Read the thread.