Taizu

I've tried both 44/27 and 17/54 frost. One thing I noticed is Ghoul is so much more squishy without NotD at which point I just didn't want to bother with it. It can only stay up in select fights.

I like 17/54 better, perhaps because my AP was lower than it should be, or that my weapon outscaled my AP. I just can't see how a ghoul (approx 50% presence due to AoE), a nerfed gargoyle (doing less than 5% of my dps), necrosis and BCB can compare to all the juicy talents in blood + 10% more damage from our skills/spells.

 

EwokChilli

Was what I was wanting to know. So pet, necrosis, BcB and garg don't make up for loss of Tundra Stalker, crit, and AP. Guess I'll be going back to 2h frost probably after 3.1 or some such.

 

Sepsis

I tried 2h Frost DPS, I tried DW Frost DPS. Both are pretty fun, but 2H makes me smile more because of the numbers ><. My only problem with either spec is when to effectively use HB?

I was thinking about this last night when i added up just how much crit Obliterate is getting from talents.... after beating on the Dummy for a while, my Obliterate had a crit rate of just under 60%, on top of that, every time i use it the runes become death runes. Other than using it when its free... or maybe in AOE situations, i dont understand when I would ever want to use a FU for a HB instead of just OB again.

I'm no expert of course...

 

keltzed

Once you get a good weapon, Obliterate should beat Howling Blast consistently on single-target fights, so you shouldn't be spending runes on HB. Use HB when you get rime procs, or for multi-target situations. Dual-wielders sometimes use Howling Blast in single-target fights because it doesn't depend on weapon damage, but with a 2h weapon, you want to be using attacks that are based on your weapon damage, particularly ones that glyph to 120% of weapon damage.

I might suggest that you re-consider Death Rune Mastery as a talent (based on your comment that Obliterate generates death runes for you). As a frost spec, the only time I can think of that you'd want death runes instead of a FU combination would be for long AoE fights where you want to spam Bloodboil while your HB cools down, which doesn't strike me as enough of a use to justify the cost in points. (Of course, if I've missed some clever use here, I'd be psyched to hear it.)

 

Goetterdaemmerung

basically ITx6

 

Sepsis

well... that and where else would i put the points in a 21/50/0 build?

 

Goetterdaemmerung

If you're not doing ITx6, put them in three 'useless' talents so that you can get a point of Vot3W. The DRM talents may in fact make the standard frost rotation more unstable. Most choose rune tap.

 

Tepesh

From the PTR:

Obliterate 80% Weapondmg +xx +12,5% per disease.
(the xx is shown on the PTR Tooltip as 19k-something which is most likely not true^^)

I think this is the end of 21/50/0 and the PS-less rotation. I guess we have to start again somwwhere between 14/50/7 if not somewhere around 0/50/21 with perma-ghoul...

 

Bordon

Just tinkering around with the old rotation and the new 15s disease duration...I may have something that allows you to keep double oblits each time. I'll post it up once I run it out a bit further.

 

Anticor

As a 32/39 spec'd DK [Dachcow of Dunemaul (US)] (ignore my point in unholy aura instead of crypt fever we run 2x 32/39 dks and I let the other guy get it because I'm nice) my rotation is: PS > IT > BS > BS > HB > RPD > PS > IT > IT > IT > HB > RPD

 

Taizu

You need 26 in unholy for perma ghoul. 21 gets you gargoyle (UB next patch)

 

Bordon

Hey, see what you guys think of this. It's a variation of the old PS-IT rotation based on the new 15s diseases. It seems to net me 2 oblits every time runes pop, though it gets kind of tight at places.

You go

PS-IT-Oblit-BS-BS-Dump
Oblit-Oblit-PS-IT-Dump
Oblit-Oblit-BS-BS-Dump


Repeat.

Possible rotations

EDIT: I went through and added another one assuming you put points into morbidity. Check the other sheet.

 

Anticor

Assuming death rune mastery wouldn't you want BS > BS before the Oblits on the first part of that rotation to get them rolling faster?

 

Bordon

That's a good point, didn't think about that. I'll head in and change 'em.

EDIT: Actually, I'm looking over it now...I'm not sure if it changes much as you have frost and unholies popping before them. I suppose it really just comes down to personal preference.

EDIT 2: I just found a new rotation using the pestilence glyph. I'm assuming it's a major glyph, but if it's a minor, this may be a shoe-in if we keep roughly the same blood/frost spec.

 

EwokChilli

*In speculation of 3.1
Could always spec 13/51/7 so you have 24 second diseases. Might be the day to go back to IT PS OB BS BS -> OB OB OB. OB does 126% Wpn damage with 2 diseases, BS does 74.75% with 2 diseases. PS does like, 50%. Comes out to ~630.75% Wpn damage + IT (for the rotation).

Although, from looking at how rediculous the Unholy changes are, I'm confidant they'll have to make more changes or there won't be much reason to not go deep Unholy and use Oblit.

 

Bordon

It's actually only 21s diseases. 15s duration + 6 from maxed epidemic. Take a glance at what I've found so far in that spreadsheet, they're coming out roughly even in terms of ability usage. I think that it may end up being better to nab the 5% crit from Blood still if my rotations end up holding any weight.

 

Odii

You could skip IT and PS altogether after the initial application by sacrificing a BS for Pest with a 21 second disease.

OB-OB-Pest-BS
OB-OB-OB

Nets 704.75% WD. Comes down to if IT >74% WD or not.

And its nitpicky, but I think your beter off going with OB-OB-BS-BS -> OB-OB-PS-IT as a rotation. Symmetry for the win.

And Ill submit a 6xIT rotation for 3.1 dumping OB altogether and using PS with outbreak+glyph. Basically a rotation of IT-PS-FS-IT-PS-FS-BS/IT-IT/BS-FS.

 

Bordon

I actually had one like that that I found.

Init rotation:
PS - IT - Oblit - BS - Pest - Dump

Then it just repeats
Oblit - Oblit - IT - Pest - Dump

EDIT: Eh, the one you said is probably better for 21s than mine was.

 

Odii

Actually, looking more closely, I think your math is wrong. 4xOB = 504% weapon damage. 2xBS =149.5% WD and PS=50% WD. So its actually a total of 703.5%+IT, meaning that this rotation is a clear winner.

 

Bordon

Don't bother with the extended diseases though.

Init rotation:
PS - IT - Oblit - BS - BS - Dump


Then
Oblit - Oblit - PS - IT - Dump
Oblit - Oblit - BS - BS - Dump

Same total and you can keep more dps talents.

 

Odii

Except your diseases are going to be falling off and you'll be losing the disease bonus on your opening OBs. You could turn a BS into a pest, but your losing over 10% of the WD of your rotation, except thats even worse. Given the built in crit for OB and having killing machine to boot, losing 4 points in dark conviction isnt a major loss.

 

Bordon

EDIT: Never mind, see what you're saying now.

 

Tepesh

I am not really confident that it would be a good idea after all to skip PS and IT for Pest.
PS with the new Glyph and the Talents looks pretty good scaling and IT is already scaling very well as we know.
I am wondering if OB after all is still superior to PS+IT (given using both Glyphs and the Talents concerning PS), maybe it will be only usefull to shorten our rotation to have more time for extra FS...

I think of something like 0/50/21 with the perma-ghoul and UB and a very simple
PS IT OB BS BS
PS IT OB OB
with FS inbetween when ever we have enough RP to maximize KM use...

I guess i need one of our math-gurus to check the difference between OB and the "new" PS+IT

 

Odii

Well, right now it seems PS with Outbreak+Glyph will do absurd damage for 1 unholy rune. Given that, I think dropping OB all together for IT and PS spam is probably the way to go. However, I think the tooltip values for Outbreak, PS, and PS glyph arent going to be realized in terms of actual damage by the time live rolls around.

 

Goetterdaemmerung

If you thought that PS damage might make it through with its vaguely unfair damage, see the unholy thread for numbers (that show that the new "buffed" PS is doing far less than you suspect). A PS-heavy rotation bypasses so many synergies that make the different talent trees interesting (sole exception: desecration), as well as being indescribably distasteful to me. Let's move on.