Frosty DPS Discussion (no magic hat required) - Page 58

Bloodscape · 01/23/09, 8:35 AM

Ok so server just went down and i'm thinking about the new dk dps spec.

I'm wondering if something like a 20/50/0 +1 is viable

Now here;s my question if you use Death Rune Mastery + Blood of the North. Would a rotation like

IT IT OB OB be sustainable?

I mean first rotation would have to be like BS BS IT IT PS PS

But after that continuing on with IT IT OB OB seems like it would keep your blood/unholy runes as death runes. I cannot get on the server atm to test so i'm wondering if anyone alreadys knows if this is viable or not.

It seems like probably one of the better spec's imo. If rime proc's use HB then OB. Could really net some dps. On multiple mobs use HB on single targets use OB. I'm thinking something like this is the way to go.

vies · 01/23/09, 8:41 AM

Also did some dummy testing last night(unfortunately didn't have a naxx spot due to people needing gear more than me), and found my dps to have taken about a 400 point jump(17/54 blood/frost variant. I'm at work so I can't link the build).

The new rotation(IT->BS->FS->OB->FS->OB->FS->(Rime/FS dump) was extremely easy to get used to, as it felt much more natural and streamlined to me. It also seems to be more forgiving in terms of getting mixed up and settling back into the rotation over the previous one(IT>OB>OB>BS>FS dump>IT>OB>BS>OB>FS dump).

I also noted the large increase in KM's uptime others are reporting. It seemed like it came up at least once per rotation, twice about half the time. Very satisfied with the results of the latest patch so far. Aside from all the bugs, anyway.

Ardias000 · 01/23/09, 9:09 AM

Note;

As of 3.0.8 Glyph of Icy Touch no longer reduces Icy Touch's damage by 10%.

Ruiz · 01/23/09, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by Feorthas

Read his post more clearly; these aren't the Blizz forums.

Str: 8.08 dps
Agi: 2.93 dps
AP: 7.20 dps
Crit: 3.99 dps
Hit @ 5%: 4.13+ dps
Hit @ 8%: 0.72+ dps
Exp: 4.12 dps
ArPen: 3.11 dps (improves slightly with increases levels of ArPen)
Haste: 1.37 dps
1 Weapon DPS: 4.45 dps

According to these figures Greater Assault (32 AP) seems to be a better boot enchant than Icewalker (12 Hit/Crit) after reaching the Hitcap. However even then most DK's prefer Icewalker.

Bloodscape · 01/23/09, 9:18 AM

Question: Is a IT IT OB OB rotation viable?

Does blood of the north and death rune master stack?

For instance you open with IT IT PS PS BS BS

This leaves you with runes of DDFFUU once they cd.

Start with IT IT then OB OB

On recharge you should get DDFFDD

so when the oblit uses the blood/unholy rune it should recharge as Death again

Can anyone confirm? server is still down for me.

Petersen · 01/23/09, 9:30 AM

Originally Posted by Bloodscape

Question: Is a IT IT OB OB rotation viable?

Does blood of the north and death rune master stack?

For instance you open with IT IT PS PS BS BS

This leaves you with runes of DDFFUU once they cd.

Start with IT IT then OB OB

On recharge you should get DDFFDD

so when the oblit uses the blood/unholy rune it should recharge as Death again

Can anyone confirm? server is still down for me.

Hm, sounds like it should work, the only problem I have is that you'd be delaying the use of your Unholy runes in the second set of runes used because your runes will regen F>F>U>U>D(b)>D(b), now this goes into IT IT easily, but you waste some seconds waiting for the Blood runes to come back up as Death for Obliterating. Perhaps IT>IT>PS>BS>PS>BS? So you get your obs off 1.5 seconds sooner, I'd probable blow Empowered Rune weapon just after the IT>IT>OB>OB set just to get all my runes synced up.

EDIT: Oooh, I see, DRM says it only lets Frost and Unholy Runes refresh as Death. So the real question is weather that is actually checked, or can DRM indeed let those Death(blood) runes refresh as Death runes.

EDIT 2:

Originally Posted by Nerub

Target: Highlord's Nemesis Trainer in Ebon Hold
DPS: 3178
DPS time: 3:25
Talents: 21/50 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Gear used: The World of Warcraft Armory
Rotation: IT->BS->FS->OB->FS->OB->FS->(Rime proc if Frost Fever is still active on the target)->restart
Presence used: Blood
Glyphs: IT, FS, OB

Your rotation... why are you delaying Obliterates for Frost Strikes?

vies · 01/23/09, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by Petersen

Your rotation... why are you delaying Obliterates for Frost Strikes?

It's mostly to keep RP from capping. With the change to the FS glyph, plus the overall upgrade to RP generation(2 rune abilities used to generate 10 base, right?), not only do we generate RP like crazy, but we also only need 96 RP to for 3x FS. So, most people have been dropping RPM in favor of other talents.

pfooti · 01/23/09, 9:57 AM

In pretty entry-level gear (you can see my DPS setup in my armory link), I was finding a 21/50/0 frost spec to do a bit more DPS when I didn't use the no-PS rotation. In general, I think that's because the No-PS rotation relies so much on obliterate, which scales well with weapon damage and the obliterate sigil. With a titansteel destroyer and no sigil, the spec and rotation weren't delivering (my raid already has two 17/0/54 death knights and a 51/13/7 one as well, so I'm still interested in sticking with frost).

Instead, I did a much more traditional IT-PS-OB-BS-BS rotation with frost strike as a runic dump and rime procs used whenever possible, and used the death runes for more icy touches instead. This generated a bit more RP per cycle (and more rime procs), and I used that for more frost strikes. At times, I felt like unholy presence might have been better (low expertise means I get dodged every so often), but recount indicated that it was more or less a wash. I was pretty much right at the threshold where the blood multiplier and the extra GCDs were about the same. I've also noted that the expected damage from an obliterate is less than that from a howling blast crit, so if I can do it, I'll try and put my KM procs toward HB rather than oblit. But then again, most of my KM procs happened at the wrong time and got eaten by frost strikes and icy touches instead.

Again, this could well be a skill issue (I'm working hard on practicing rotations on dummies, and have good addon support, though), but I think it's mainly due to gearing - my obliterates just don't quite hit hard enough to be better than two icy touches. I'll try and run some recounts on the dummy soon, and should have some WWS reports from 25-man naxx after the weekend.

Torrential · 01/23/09, 10:01 AM

Just as a note some/many mages are swapping to or at least trying Arcane. You may want to ask your mages if razor ice is even still an issue.

vies · 01/23/09, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by pfooti

I've also noted that the expected damage from an obliterate is less than that from a howling blast crit, so if I can do it, I'll try and put my KM procs toward HB rather than oblit. But then again, most of my KM procs happened at the wrong time and got eaten by frost strikes and icy touches instead.

The only abilities affected by KM procs are It, FS, and HB. OB just ends up with a high crit rate after talents(there are quite a few talents that affect crit rate, especially for OB).

Petersen · 01/23/09, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by vies

It's mostly to keep RP from capping. With the change to the FS glyph, plus the overall upgrade to RP generation(2 rune abilities used to generate 10 base, right?), not only do we generate RP like crazy, but we also only need 96 RP to for 3x FS. So, most people have been dropping RPM in favor of other talents.

Of that I am uncertain; I hat thought that Rune abilities generated 5x+5 runic power where x = number of runes required for power. In essence, I saw the change to multi-rune abilities universally generating 15 Runic Power as a subtle 'nerf' to Death and Decay preventing DKs from using it as effectively as before in the function like warriors use Blood Rage.

Janraea · 01/23/09, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Darthius

Having played a blood/frost spec for the last month or so as an alt doing random 10/25 Nax i've been asked to spec my DK as my main from my trusty Rogue so thought it best to read the other threads on DK's. To my suprise i note that on the "Finding Top Raid DPS 3.0.8" thread that started up the other day there is little or no 2H specs and most all are taking at least 30pts in unholy with ghoul and gargolye, with the rest in frost as a rule.
Is there a massive change in the patch i missed?, do i need to be hunting down 1H after all?
Thanks for your help guys..

No massive change, 32/39 DW was the highest dps before the patch, and is less so after. That's even more the case for top raiding guilds that kill things very quickly (and allow gargoyle to be up for a larger portion of the fight), so the numbers are skewed somewhat on the top dps slots.

Originally Posted by Bloodscape

Ok so server just went down and i'm thinking about the new dk dps spec.
I'm wondering if something like a 20/50/0 +1 is viable
Now here;s my question if you use Death Rune Mastery + Blood of the North. Would a rotation like
IT IT OB OB be sustainable?

I mean first rotation would have to be like BS BS IT IT PS PS
But after that continuing on with IT IT OB OB seems like it would keep your blood/unholy runes as death runes. I cannot get on the server atm to test so i'm wondering if anyone alreadys knows if this is viable or not.
It seems like probably one of the better spec's imo. If rime proc's use HB then OB. Could really net some dps. On multiple mobs use HB on single targets use OB. I'm thinking something like this is the way to go.

It is definitely a viable build, but BotN and DRM don't stack that way - DRM can only make F and U runes into death runes; the BotN death runes would turn back into blood runes afterward. The advantage of the build is that you can swap 2 Oblits for 4 ITs - in Unholy presence, that's a big gain, especially before you have four pieces of T7. The rotation looks like BS.BS.Oblit.Oblit - ITx6, with FS woven in to keep RP from capping ( that's 230 RP with the bonus, 210 without).

Originally Posted by Petersen

Of that I am uncertain; I hat thought that Rune abilities generated 5x+5 runic power where x = number of runes required for power. In essence, I saw the change to multi-rune abilities universally generating 15 Runic Power as a subtle 'nerf' to Death and Decay preventing DKs from using it as effectively as before in the function like warriors use Blood Rage.

This is correct. It is only a nerf to the RP of D&D and Army.

vies · 01/23/09, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by Petersen

Of that I am uncertain; I hat thought that Rune abilities generated 5x+5 runic power where x = number of runes required for power. In essence, I saw the change to multi-rune abilities universally generating 15 Runic Power as a subtle 'nerf' to Death and Decay preventing DKs from using it as effectively as before in the function like warriors use Blood Rage.

Ah, okay. I honestly never used DnD that way, so I hadn't thought of that. At least the change to HoW covers the initial RP bump though.

Xipiu · 01/23/09, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by Tepesh

How do you do that? You would need 3F and 3U for the first and even 4F 2U for the second cycle and you're not doing anything with your Bloodrunes, not even to get Deathrunes.

sorry. first cycle is BS instead of PS. ill edit to correct that.
starting with BS > BT so i get a perma-death rune

Veba · 01/23/09, 1:03 PM

Has anyone tried a build similar to Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
I've yet to try it in a raid environment but on the boss dummy in ebon hold I'm doing on average around 3000 dps over a 5 minute period