Blood DPS App. Stn. - Don't Stop Diseasin' (Feat. Runic Power Mastery).mp3 - Page 100

Joink · 03/12/09, 3:14 AM

With drw up, it'll spread its own diseases with pestilence so effectively you have 4 diseases everywhere ticking. Then spam the hell out of blood boil.

Xaer · 03/12/09, 4:48 AM

Originally Posted by Joink

With drw up, it'll spread its own diseases with pestilence so effectively you have 4 diseases everywhere ticking. Then spam the hell out of blood boil.

Actualy, i posted this a week or two ago.

DRW replicates pestilence per target, meaning the more targets u have the more pestilence is aplied.
Then the pestilence from there spreads along the targets, making it hit for rather rediculous damage.

There where no diseases used, meaning u cant use bloodboil.

Here's a ref to the old post
Blood DPS App. Stn. - Don't Stop Diseasin' (Feat. Runic Power Mastery).mp3

Nen · 03/12/09, 10:37 AM

Tests against dummies without the extra +25% arp from sunder and ff doesn’t accurately reflect how much damage HS can output. HS on ptr bosses can easily crit for 7500, 9k with hysteria.

Tharvos · 03/12/09, 12:28 PM

Originally Posted by Muadibz

If you look at most of the bosses so far, they are all single target which would make HS better to use. But what you seem to be saying is something along the lines of, "In an AOE situation (where you have more than 2 targets), its better to use a skill thats designed as an AOE attack instead of a single target attack". You also have to look at the buff due to the fact that you no longer do damage with pest.

No i am not saying that.
What i try to say is that HS no longer has a good "secondary effect".

Remember the past where HS added a debuff (that never worked). It did the same DMG it does at the moment.
Than they changed the debuff to a cleave effect because blood AoE dmg was very weak.

Now that they fix the AoE nuke (Bloodbloil) you no longer need a cleave.
So i try to say, that they maybe should rethink the "second part" of HS. Give it a debuff again (that works) or something like that.

Because in pratice you never ever really use that cleave beside of trashpacks. And with 3.1 i will for sure use BB over HS on trashpacks with >= 3 mobs.

concept84 · 03/12/09, 1:50 PM

Originally Posted by Tharvos

No i am not saying that.
What i try to say is that HS no longer has a good "secondary effect".

HS never had a good secondary effect. The cleave part of it has never helped me once. The only time I'm reminded it exists is when I pick up a slime on Grobb etc, which is bad.

SlyyyC · 03/12/09, 2:56 PM

Greetings folks,

This is my first post, but I am a long-time reader from EJ. I consider myself an elitist but I'm not perfect. I sadly am not playing on the PTR, but I wanted to get a feel of it from you. I have been a dual-wielder for quite some time (months now) and I'm pretty sad to see a spec like 0-32-39 get teared apart (Sadly, it HAD to be done). I like big numbers and big dps (I'm an ex-Warlock SBolt spammer, god I miss those). I switched to a Death Knight as soon as WotLK got out (mostly because I'm an ex Warcraft 3 player). Anyways, back to the topic.

There has been many issues and contradicting comments on DRWeapon, so I was asking for some feedback. How good is really DRW on PTR? Is it worth it and such ? Could there be any replacement to it ?

I also wanted to point out another type of blood spec that doesn't use the new Blood-Gorged or DRW for that matter. I haven't read much about it, mostly came up with it myself without asking any feedback whatsoever. I would like you guys to test it on PTR if you can and come back with some numbers if that is possible. Thanks a bunch =)

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9658

44/0/25+2

I basically traded BGorged and DRW for Impurity 5/5, Ghoul Frenzy and Unholy Blight. You guys think the ghoul and impurity 5/5 impact on deathcoils would surpass the ArPen and DRW ? Or we could just drop UB and GFrenzy for 2/2 Dirge for more DCoils?

Glyphs would be the Death Coil (+15%) , Obliterate or Death Strike glyph , and the Ghoul one.

Rotation 1 :
OB IT PS HS HS Dump
Rotation 2 :
HS HS HS HS OB* Dump

* = This second obliterate could also be a deathstrike depending on the numbers they give and it could be in the middle of the 2nd rotation because it doesn't remove the diseases you have on.

I've got full valorous, Darkmoon:Greatness Card and around 1400 strength self-buffed.
Wow Web Stats my last 25 man patchwerk kill ( 5224 dps on a 3:13 min , without AotD) (DWield Angry Dead + FCrusader / Hailstorm + cinderglacier)

I may get flamed, but I'm just trying to think outside the box and bring constructive criticism to a nerfed class ;p
Comments? Thoughts?

Sry for the long post and thanks for reading

concept84 · 03/12/09, 3:22 PM

Originally Posted by SlyyyC

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9658

44/0/25+2

I basically traded BGorged and DRW for Impurity 5/5, Ghoul Frenzy and Unholy Blight. You guys think the ghoul and impurity 5/5 impact on deathcoils would surpass the ArPen and DRW ? Or we could just drop UB and GFrenzy for 2/2 Dirge for more DCoils?

Glyphs would be the Death Coil (+15%) , Obliterate or Death Strike glyph , and the Ghoul one.

Rotation 1 :
OB IT PS HS HS Dump
Rotation 2 :
HS HS HS HS OB* Dump

While Impurity is amazing it just doesn't improve upon really anything except Death Coil in a build like this. What you lose to grab it is a HUGE increase in DPS for any heavy blood build. Unfortunately a build like this will seriously underperform compared to 51/0/20, but I always like reading about new ideas/specs/rotations, etc.

SlyyyC · 03/12/09, 3:34 PM

Like I said, I'm mostly a DW user atm and haven't touched DRW in a while. From what I've heard, it even got nerfed. Yes I understand that the impurity impacts only Deathcoils, you should get a least a minimum of 5 DC in two rotation. If you are lucky enough to get a few Sudden Doom procs, then it all adds to this number. If we 'expect' 7 or so DC (being generous here lol) on two rotations, the glyph and Impurity could cover the losses of DRW. Or not?

If we use very basic maths, impurity adds 1.75 DC dmg on 7 DC, or 1.5 DC dmg on 6 DC. With all the procs/raidbuffs/food factored in and such, roughly 1 and a half DC per 2 rotations could bring in sufficient dmg input. I could be wrong though, but that's why I'm asking you guys if it would be even possible to test it on PTR. I've fallen in love with impurity while playing DW and its effect on my HB.

If only I had more clue/numbers about DRW on PTR, I could make up my mind. Oh well, thank you for your comments, they were appreciated and I will definitely take it into account when 3.1 goes live.

EwokChilli · 03/12/09, 3:50 PM

Unlike in the 2h frost builds, where you can make 50+% of your attacks spells, with blood, you're trading 10% damage (+10% ArP) to 82% of your dps for 25% for 18% of your dps (being generous for DC). You get the ghoul in both 51/2/18 and 44/0/25+2, so that's a wash. Even if they make DRW 50% as affective as it is now, they've made it almost 2x longer in duration than it use to be. So, even just looking at the trade of blood gorged for impurity straight up, blood gorged is better, then you add DRW for some mighty tasty icing.

SlyyyC · 03/12/09, 4:05 PM

It may be my biased opinion about DRW. *blushes*

If I recall correctly, even a nerfed gargoyle did a lot more dmg than a DRW did. I may be wrong though, that's why I'd love numbers. And please, no dummy numbers! :P I like the real stuff !!

And you are right though, I also think the ArP would give a more consistent boost, but once all the buffs are factored in, I think it MAY be better with impurity. Since some of us can easily achieve 7k+ AP when the procs get in, that's a minimum 1750 spell power more than you normally have. Oh well, WTB numbers pleaseeeee!

Thanks for your comment =)

methods · 03/12/09, 4:33 PM

Originally Posted by EwokChilli

Unlike in the 2h frost builds, where you can make 50+% of your attacks spells, with blood, you're trading 10% damage (+10% ArP) to 82% of your dps for 25% for 18% of your dps (being generous for DC). You get the ghoul in both 51/2/18 and 44/0/25+2, so that's a wash. Even if they make DRW 50% as affective as it is now, they've made it almost 2x longer in duration than it use to be. So, even just looking at the trade of blood gorged for impurity straight up, blood gorged is better, then you add DRW for some mighty tasty icing.

This is all very much in line with my latest spreadsheet numbers.

Blood Gorged with DRW at 40% it is still light-years ahead of UB + Impurity for blood. We're talking HUGE (5200 vs 5900) with top end gear (including some Ulduar). The 10% ArP and 10% damage of Blood gorged is an absolute must. In fact it is so "over budget" that I'm not sure if it will stay the way it is without getting shifted to other talents for balance purposes. Not because I think blood is theoretically doing too much damage (which it still is not) but because the talent is so much better than any other alternatives in a raiding environment.

I'm assuming Blizzard has factored in an average uptime to justify Blood Gorged as is.

concept84 · 03/12/09, 6:01 PM

Originally Posted by SlyyyC

If we use very basic maths, impurity adds 1.75 DC dmg on 7 DC, or 1.5 DC dmg on 6 DC. With all the procs/raidbuffs/food factored in and such, roughly 1 and a half DC per 2 rotations could bring in sufficient dmg input. I could be wrong though, but that's why I'm asking you guys if it would be even possible to test it on PTR. I've fallen in love with impurity while playing DW and its effect on my HB.

If only I had more clue/numbers about DRW on PTR, I could make up my mind. Oh well, thank you for your comments, they were appreciated and I will definitely take it into account when 3.1 goes live.

DRW even in its nerfed state puts out a very nice amount of damage, and Blood Gorged is absolutely incredible.

6 or 7 DCs seems like a whole lot and unless you are in unholy presence you aren't fitting in more than 3 or 4 per full rotation and sudden doom doesn't proc enough to make up the difference. The other issue is RP generation for up to 4 DCs won't exist without using 4pc T7 which we'll be moving away from very shortly.

But lets assume 4pc T7, 2 sudden doom procs, and 4 standard DCs per rotation. Even at 6 DCs still doesn't justify the damage increase Impurity will provide vs the damage you'll lose on everything else, including auto-attacks.

I understand you are attached to Impurity but in a build that uses one spell its lackluster and not worth the points.

Kaniption · 03/12/09, 6:16 PM

So, in 3.1 51/2/18? 51/0/20? Is runic power mastery going to be that significant, or will 2 points in BCB be the way to go. What about glyphs? Their seems to be a lot of choices on the table now, DS, DC, HS, Ghoul? Rotation still approximately the same PS>IT>HS>HS>DS>Dump>DS>HSx4>Dump> Repeat? I've been out of the loop playing Unholy as of late.

SlyyyC · 03/12/09, 6:17 PM

From the comments I had so far, having 51 in blood is an absolute must. (considering you absolutely want to go Blood spec that is).

Do you guys think it'll fall short(as always) on dmg/dps as compared to deep frost (0/49/20+2) and deep unholy(X/X/50+1) ?

Or maybe there will be sufficient Raid Boss encounters that may justify going Blood ?

Can't wait to get more feedbacks from you guys. Thanks

Darindesh · 03/12/09, 6:30 PM

New build on MMO-Champion looks like some promising things happening for Blood. DRW cooldown is cut in half, and MoM got a buff as well. While you wont beable to use hysteria with DRW all the time now it is another way to rune dump more. I am curious to see how this will affect DS.