A problem with testing 50/0/21 on a target dummy, at least on beta (I'm not sure if this carried over to live), was that things like Blood Caked Blade and Necrosis weren't effective because they can't overkill. Since target dummies are generally sitting at 1hp BCB and Necrosis only hit for 1 damage.

So many results, this is confusing ! I guess I am going to try out Unholy presence tonight in Naxx and see how it goes. Have there been tests that show Blood presence > Unholy presence? Or is it still a valid question? Everyone seems to have different opinions and results. I will try it out tonight and post what happens, it just seems to me that a flat 15% damage increase will result in more DPS then 0.5 secs off the GCD.

All that damage is done in Blood Presence?

According to my Recount, BCB does work on the dummy but Necrosis does not (in the case where the dummy is sitting at 1 HP anyway).

Did you test this on boss dummy? My gear is bit better and as 51/13/7 I can push about 2.2k dps on dummy selfbuffed. Without cooldowns. I use same rotation, but with extra dc here and there.

With 51/13/7 UP was a huge dps increase for me. If you play this specc with BP in raid situations, you'll notice that in order to complete your rotation before diseases are expiring, you need to leave out some DCs, even if there'd be enough RP to dump.

So, for this 15% dmg you practically get 1-2 DC's more per rotation while still having your HS' benefit of both diseases.

I did use cooldowns, maybe that's the reason. Another cause for the test was to see if DRW or Garg is the better summon to specc.

Do you dump your RP steadily with those extra DC, even if you know your HS won't get both diseases? I don't, so this could be another point.

Hey Elitistjerks.

I just wanna state in my personal views on the blood dps spec and what i feel works best for me.

Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

This is the spec i currently use.

I did not put any points in any self healing ability that requires me to use runes on it, for obvios reasons perhaps.
I know there are situasjons where i can use some self healing, using up my runes, witouth having it hurt my dps output.(gogo heigan dance), but i dont feel its that important.

I didnt spec into unholy at all beacuse the 6 extra seconds does not seem needed to me.
My diseases does not run out if i stick to my rotation.

I specced deeper into frost mostly for the 20% speed increase and also for the the runic power cap boost.
With my current rotation, there are moments when i gain almost 100% runic power, so i feel those points where well spent.


My rotation:
IT > PS > OB > HS > HS > DCdumb
IT > PS > HS > HS > HS > HS > DCdumb

My only problem with this so far is that i seem to rarely run out of Runic Power at the end of the second rotation before i need to reapply my diseases, but its not a big issue i guess, since its more Runic Power for the next dumb.

I use IT before PS beacuse of the PS glyph.

So far this spec and rotation keeps me on top of the damage meter. With an average dps of 2.3k in 10 man naxx(yes i do it 10man).
My gear consists of full blues, 5 epics. 279 hit rating, 25% crit, 2820 AP, 5.4% haste, 18 expertise(lol).

I dont know if any of this is below average, average or above average, but im hoping its something that works, beacuse it seems to get the job done

Would like any hints that you can think off, beacuse im not 100% sure im doing this correctly.

-Ele

I doubt that those additional 20 RP are worth it, since your DC does 15% less damage.

Hmm, yes you are very correct, thanks for pointing that out.
Thats a nice step in the right direction.

Not sure if this was mentioned, but I found a fix for the whole Dancing Rune Weapon sometimes trying to move to the front of the target to attack.

Just make the following macro:

#showtooltip Dancing Rune Weapon
/cleartarget
/cast Dancing Rune Weapon
/target lasttarget


If you don't have a target when you cast DRW it summons at your side - with this macro it will appear beside you and immediately start attacking from behind when the macro retargets whatever you were fighting. You can macro Hysteria in there as well if you don't feel like throwing it on a Warrior or something.

Beautiful, thanks!

It still depends on a lot of things-- you say it's unbuffed, but were you using cooldowns? When you say "I reached nearly 3.2k DPS", do you mean that's the highest number you saw on recount while dpsing, or what it averaged out to over an extended period of time? We need to know how you did your test to tell you what it means.

Also, the 50/0/21 rotation you list isn't a standard one by any means-- the one you were surprised to find higher is a more typical one.

Otherwise, I usually get similar results to you-- I do more dummy dps with 51/13/7 than 50/0/21, blood presence. To be honest, 200-300 dps difference is well within a margin of error when it comes to raiding. There's only one Patchwerk, and the rest of the time you usually have to be doing things besides standing still and dpsing.

When it comes to the two specs or the presence debate, I'd recommend using whichever one YOU get better results with consistently, because the difference doesn't seem to be huge, and it's going to vary based on how you play it on non-Patchwerk fights. Personally, I go with Blood presence because Unholy presence usually results in waiting rather than gaining an actual dps advantage, and I do more consistent and higher dps with 51/13/7 right now.

I agree with this. I've tried a few specs and personally found that I was better, overall, with 51/13/7. I tried 51/0/20 and didn't find it as intuitive for me, perhaps just because I'm used to 51/13/7, but that's what just works best for me. I've been following this thread for a long time, and results vary for everyone.

And just as an aside, to expand on the presence thing, I again personally found that Blood worked best for me, but I also like to change it depending on the fight. Movement fights, like Grobulus as a prime example, I use Unholy Presence. The speed boost is helpful in getting out of there without putting clouds in useless places. Same with Heigan. It's easier to mess up a 51/13/7 rotation when you're constantly moving and not in melee range of the boss, so unholy presence alleviates some of that.

I haven't gotten onto the PTR yet with my DK, but I'm wondering how the new CE looks, and if it's worth picking up for the extra AoE damage in a 5x/2x spec. I'm not sure if the buff to Pestilence and HS is enough to help Blood AoE, or if CE is worth it, especially over 1 point in Ravenous Dead. Any thoughts?

I guess I'll have to spend some more time on the dummy to really get things absolutely clear.

Too bad there isn't a PW dummy, simulating buffs and raid conditions. :/

Thanks anyway.

I hop back and forth between these 2 specs... I really like both and I hope I'm able to really make a final decision with the new patch as for which will pull ahead. As it is now... i'm able to squeeze out just a tad more dps with 51/13/7, but I have more fun with 51/0/20.

I was under the impression that the best blood rotation was:

PS -> IT -> HS -> HS -> OB -> DC(Dump)
OB -> HS -> HS -> OB -> DC(Dump)

But I still see people using consistent OB -> HS -> HS -> HS -> HS -> DC as the second slot rotation. Is this dependent on gear, exact spec, glyphs? It seems the one I'm using does tons more from what tests I have been able to pull but my schedule is tight right now, so I apologize if this has been run through in the previous posts, I think I've read everything there is to read, and could not find an exact lock down. I understand things are still in the testing phase so I was just wondering if we've come to a conclusion yet. :]

Also, I keep seeing IT -> PS, instead of PS -> IT, is there a way to tell with what glyphs and spec you have what order is best? I'm currently using glyph of PS I believe, and my talents are the basic 51/13/7 minus one or two things.

The World of Warcraft Armory

1. It depends on spec. Most 51/0/21 use the rotation you see a lot with 4xHS at the end.

2. It depends on gear and if you have the Sigil off Heigan to support the 2xHS-2xOB for the 2nd rotation. Though this is for the 51/13/7 spec.

I'm assuming you meant HS for the BS instead.

Oops, yes I did mean HS. >_<

I'm thinking that with the change to Heart Strike, the blood rotation for raid trash/5-mans may have to change. I foresee with a 5x/0/2x build that the first part of a rotation would be best if set up as IT>PS>Pestilence>HS>OB>DC. That way, you're set up to receive the disease damage bonus from whatever target the HS cleave effect chooses. The question is, does dropping that first pestilence(and subsequent if needed) outweigh losing a Heart Strike? I haven't had a chance to get on the PTR yet, but I would assume that Disease Damage+Pestilence Base Damage+HS Cleave Disease Damage Bonus > One HS for large groups. Also, you lose nothing if your main target dies mid-rotation, you don't have to worry about missing the disease damage bonus as you can immediately continue heartstriking the next target.

I'm also curious as to whether a rotation like this wouldn't be best for large trash pulls:
1.IT > PS > Pestilence > HS > OB > DC
2.Tab Target
3.OB
4.Tab Target
5.Pestilence > HSx3 >OB>DC
Repeat from 2 until only two mobs are left standing, then return to standard rotation.
You trade a heart strike for a pestilence, and IT/PS for an extra obliterate.

Well for one, I honestly do not care about trash currently. Its all a joke and all AoE'd anyways. We clear all of the 25 man content in 1 night in about 3-4hours. Does that mean maximizing DPS on trash pulls isn't necessary? No, I just don't think until Ulduar comes and trash actually matters and even then probably wont most of this is trivial. Though various level of DKs come here and may very well wan that knowledge of "I did 5000 dps on this trash pull". Though 5 mans is a different story, but also are all a joke.

Most people only care about DPS on bosses.

I'm currently leveling with the 52/0/20 build as my spec. Now, I was wondering which Presence is best for my DPS?
I have leveled all they way up to 75 with Blood Presence, but I wanted to see how my DPS would change when using Unholy Presence.
My recount doesn't show much difference, I'm even inclined to believe that my DPS is higher when using Unholy Presence.

My question is: which Presence will benefit me most: Blood or Unholy Aura?

Thanks in advance;