As will Desecration if you have an UH in your raid. With this being the case I'm thinking the Glyph of BS will become a very valuable PvE Glyph, replacing Plague Strike most likely as 20% more damage on HS >> 20% per Plague Strike.

I could be wrong but the way for mage DPS in 308 will e arcane/fire with fireballs, FFB will come back to play at a later time, at least this is what the top dps mages I know of tell me

I don't know Mage mechanics or really haven't looked at the incoming changes to the class but I've been talking with Mages in my guild regarding FFB, and none of them are planning on changing from that in the patch.

Either way Desecration works, and Infected Wounds (Feral Druids) should also work for this purpose.

I have already briefly tested this on the dummies on the PTR, however I was not able to test with the oblit glyph yet. After being used to 17/0/54 the last month or so, 51/0/20 really seemed good on paper, but lacked on test, but again.. no oblit glyph. I got a friend that copied his toon to the PTR tonight and brought over some glyphs so i can do more test, so I'll get back about 51/0/20 again. I'll be using blood strike glyph, glyph of ghoul, and oblit, with Haunted Dreams Sigil, and the same rotation u mentioned already. I'm only running 3 piece tier 7 as well.

I will say this for those wondering about the Garg... it's dmg took a huge hit. DPS while it's up doesn't seem to spike much at all, and it's max up time reduced to 30 secs now. The tooltip shows it counting down from 60, then stops once it hits 30. Overall so far, Unholy dps seems to not have increased much at all, while blood has caught up to where Unholy has been. I'm just basing this off of my own gear and performance level though. One issue i've already noticed on the PTR is some abilities are not generating RP, so hopefully that's fixed soon.

Gargoyle wasn't hit that extremely hard, on live it does ~1k DPS for an entire minute, now it does 700 for 30 seconds - it was a needed change, pets shouldn't be able to solo players.

It got a patchwerk nerf, other bosses buff because of the avoidance it gets it will probably be up for the full 30seconds.

I haven't done any testing, but the only real buff blood got was more damage on DRW ?
That change won't make up for it lacking so far behind Unholy, if anything the necrosis change alone changes the difference between the new DRW and Unholy.

In what way is the 50% duration and 20% damage reduction "not being hit extremely hard"? Gargoyle needed a nerf, sure. A damage nerf would have sufficed for PvP, while a duration nerf would have sufficed for PvE... and they've decided to go with both. That's the definition of a huge nerf.

Also, what avoidance buff are you talking about? As far as I know, no one had verified whether the deep unholy talent Night of the Dead adds avoidance for the gargoyle. I've certainly not seen any mention of avoidance being added as a *base* gargoyle property.

A few other things added together should help Blood be more competitive with Unholy.

1) Gargoyle nerf VS. DRW fixed to mirror caster damage more closely, Gargoyle is much less of a "must have" point.
2) Improved Glyph of Obliterate, overall damage increased by 20%, even more effective with the Sigil of Awareness and a 3x OB rotation.
3) Glyph of Blood Strike effective against raid bosses with a slowing effect (FFB, Inf. Wounds, Desecration) adding 20% damage to Heart Strike.
4) Necrosis buff (also benefits UH), making it a much more attractive talent and bringing it in line with the 1:1 talent philosophy.

Did Blood get a miracle make-over that will make it blow everything else away? Certainly not but it did get some love this patch.

Indeed these are buffs to blood and that is what my initial question was about. What will do more damage, the 51/0/20 spec benefiting from the blood strike glyph and necrosis or the 51/13/7 3 x OB spec which will not benefit from necrosis and a bit less from the blood strike glyph but will also benefit from the OB buff. It appears time will tell and how much more tweaking will happen in the current build. (since they postponed it)

Also, I read a blue stating that they consider a DW DK doing 7k on patchwerk "a broken mechanic". THis is quite strong wording, I think DW will get a lot of nerf (even more then in the current patch 3.0.8 build).

I have a feeling blood is where the dps will be after patch

Is this a typo or will the glyph also increase the damage to Heart Strike?

Glyph of Blood Strike increases both Blood and Heart Strike

Have you tested this? I have never heard of this before recently and it is no where to be seen on the tooltip. I have yet to see proof, please show me some so I can replace a glyph with this.

just the question i was going to ask, I beleive the bossss dummies are not immune to snare but if they arent then i will test it, If it does infact work with Heartstrike on raid bosses, the glyph would be a must have. an unglyphed heartstrie does 60% dmg if a glyphed oblterate the effect of the glyph would make it a no brainer to use 4 x HS roatation . I do not now What the effect of the sigil of awareness will be though. On the subject of glyphs; Icy 9ouch glyph doesnt seem ike it really helps blood uch. i barely use the ability and im overflowing with rp constantly. I would use obliterate, blood strike, and Deathsstrike ( since we have full rp very often) Using deathstrike to sztay above 75% hp is a 10% increase and Since we dont die as quickly we arent really a priority for healing.

If the proc rate is still as horrible as it is now, not a chance. And even if it isn't its only about 3.8% crit for those 10 seconds, which is not really that much.

It has been established in this thread many times, here is the best example:

http://elitistjerks.com/1014210-post384.html

Thank you. I will replace Icebound Fortitude with this glyph then.

If this is true (I hadn't yet seen anyone confirm that it works with slow effects and not just snares), then it will be an enormous buff in most raid situations. I don't see a post that shows the testing on this one, though. Has anyone sat down and tested it with effects like Thunderclap on the nemesis dummy? Stuff like Desecration doesn't work on dummies because they are actually vulnerable to snares unlike other 3+ level targets.

It always did... Many many weeks (months?) ago someone also tested this here in the EJ Forum, so you can assume that its "valid".
I also use this Glyph in PvP and i can also verify, that it works with HS and BS (i don't know why they dont adjust the tooltip).

But i can not confirm, that the Glyph works on bosses. I really hope it does.
I see no reason why it shoul not work, because PS,OB and DS also have +20% dmg glyphs. The OB and PS one also doesnt requir anything to do in order to be active.

So lets hope, that they change the BS Glyph, so that i will work with any typ of snare or chill effect. It sucks to depend on another class debuff to make that glyph work.




Again:
Traingdummys are a very bad choice to test this, because they are not immune to normal snares.
So if you have a FFB spaming mage on that dummy, your Glyph will activate 100%.
But it would also activate when you spam Chains of Ice on that dummy, because it is not immune to snares.

You will actually have to test it against real bossmobs (take one in Zul Gurub, you can easily solo it as a DK).

I got a question about Expertise for blood.

Is that stat really needed for blood dps?I mean, i always heard that attacks coming from behind couldn't be dodged by the boss, and as a melee dps, nobody but the tank should ever hit the mob from the front.. I would have to run wws to check if my attacks are parried or dodge, but i would like to know if I should really focus on capping that (i'm overcapped on hit rating right now)

Mobs can dodge if you attack from behind, but parry is still front only. It's players that can't dodge if attacked from behind.

So yes, Expertise is very much needed

Expertise is a great dps stat to have. Mobs CAN Dodge attacks from behind, and sometimes in less than ideal positioning circumstances you may be forced to use an ability or two from the front.

Don't worry about getting Expertise capped up front though, it will come easily through gear with Blood.

Yes expertise is more than worth it as a deep blood DK.
Especially if you are 51 0 20 speced and use 4 HS rotations. Every missed attack hurts like hell because of wasted GCDs.
My statpriority is 1. meleehitcap 2. expertisecap (26 expertise) 3. str/crit.

I know that 26 is not the real cap, but its the amount of expertise you need to kick dodge from your attacktable.


PS:

I just read that Retribution Paladins will stay at 3 stacks Vengeance only, so the discussion whether or not the DK talent should be buffed to 5 stacks as well is needless.

What kind of DPS potential is there right now for your typical blood build? Is it in the range of a ret paladin (5-5.5K)?

I know it is getting buffed coming next patch, but I have not been able to find much in the way of WWS lately that isnt deep unholy or fast/fast DW frost.