That's what I use with my 51/13/7 build as well.

Cheers

Using 51/0/20...

The rotation

[Blood Presence]
1:= PS>IT>HS>HS>OB
2:= PS>IT>HS>HS>HS>HS>DC>HS>HS>OB
(repeat line 2)
--Use DeathCoils at any point you need to fill up time waiting for Runes to CD and use Sudden Doom procs asap, then use OB if your PS/IT is coming off.

I find this to be the best DPS rotation for me as Blood/Unholy. I have tried it with Unholy Presence, but it seems BLood Presence is working best for DPS atm with my Current Gear.

Has anyone else tried using this rotation? I have not seen anyone talk about this rotation yet. (Unless I missed it, but it should be talked about more if that's the case)

That's essentially what I've used(I posted a rotation back on Page 14 or something that's similar, but you typed it out a lot simpler than I did). However I open with Oblit so I don't have to do that short rotation first and can just jump into the rotation from the start. Works like a charm, I've been 50/0/21 for every Patchwerk fight and I started at 4500 our first week and have gotten up to the 5300 range now. I plan to do the same thing with 51/0/20 starting tomorrow.

I will try the Ob first then resume the DPS rotation. I'm not sure why I didn't do that already lol.

The thing is.. I'm finding that rotation very successful. Even so, no one is really giving it much attention. Perhaps we should start a 51/13/7 thread and a 5x/0/2x thread to better debate things.



Edit::

I just tried the OB first, it made it very clumsy and created a lot of Dead Space between runes on CDs.. It would take a bit before the rotation leveled out properly.

Using Line1 first allows a seamless transition into line 2 and allows line 2 to run perfectly with Rune CDs with no downtime between dpsing.

I've been thinking of a No Disease rotation similar to the Frost No PS rotation for a 51/0/20 build.

ROTATION

OB>OB>HS>HS>DC
HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>DC

Use sudden death procs between HS's to increase damage ouput.


DAMAGE RANGE

With current numbers on PTR using [Betrayer of Humanity] and 5000 AP (Raid Situation):

HEARTSTRIKE

With Glyph of BS / Bloody strikes

(((758) + (3.3 * 5000 / 14))*0.6)+220.8)*1.2)*1.3 = 2157.07 Base damage 2351.21 with Bloody Vengeance.

With Glyph of BS / Bloody strikes / [Sigil of the Dark Rider]

(((758) + (3.3 * 5000 / 14))*0.6)+243.8)*1.2)*1.3 = 2192.95 Base damage 2390.32 with Bloody Vengeance.


OBLITERATE

With Glyph of OB

((758) + (3.3 * 5000 / 14))*1)+292)*1.2 = 2674.28 Base damage 2914.96 with Bloody Vengeance.

With Glyph of OB & [Sigil of Awareness]

((758) + (3.3 * 5000 / 14))*1)+502)*1.2 = 2926.28 Base damage 3189.65 with Bloody Vengeance.


So the damage from both sigils is 50% on extra damage and 50% on extra disease damage but the [Sigil of the Dark Rider] does NOT add 90 damage to HS at level 80 but 45 damage... I don't know why but it means that [Sigil of Awareness] has more value with OB*2 than the HS increase (even on a 8*HS rotation).

DAMAGE LOST FROM NO DISEASES

I AM NOT TAKING RAID BUFFS/DEBUFFS INTO ACCOUNT.

From 2951.93 (HS damage with diseases) we drop to 2351.21 (HS damage without diseases)
And 3846.26 (OB Damage with diseases/Sigil) we drop to 3189.65 (OB damage without diseases/with Sigil)

Now the damage lost from Frost Fever and Blood plague is:

((5000*0.055)/3)*2 = 183.33 dps (91.66 per disease)

The damage lost from IT is:

(5000*0.1)+236 = 736

The damage lost from PS is:

((758) + (3.3 * 5000 / 14))*0.3)+113.4) = 466.97

DAMAGE PER ROTATION

So let's get this started shall we?

736+466.97+(2951.93*2)+3846.26 = 10954.09 + 65 RP
736+466.97+(2951.93*4) = 13010.68 + 70 RP

For a total of 23963.77 damage to which we can add (14.5*91.66)+(16.5*91.66) = 2841.46 damage and 3.375 Death coils from RP gain that deal ((5000*0.15)+443)*3.375 =4026.375
Grand Total damage: 30831.605

On the other hand we have (3189.65*2)+(2351.21*8)= 25188.98 and 2.75 Death coils from RP gain.
Grand Total damage: 28469.73

HYSTERIA SCALING

Adding hysteria to the no disease rotation as a permanent 3.33% increase to damage (since it's a 100% physical rotation). While the disease rotation does not gain hysteria increase except on 22491.77 damage.

No Disease Rotation scales much better with hysteria.


No disease rotation with hysteria:29409.23
Disease rotation with hysteria: 31101.83

CRITICAL STRIKE SCALING

Now assuming I am hit and expertise capped and that I have 50% critical strike chance on OB and HS (not extremely hard to achieve) and that the bonus damage of HS/OB is 222.5%
((1.00 - 0.5) + 2.225 * 0.5)= 1.6125 or 61.25% damage increase.

So no disease rotation goes from: 29409.23*1.6125= 47422.38 damage.

While the disease rotation receives: 22269.23*1.6125= 35909.14 damage.

Then I only have 200% damage on IT/PS/DC and 41% critical strike chance with them:
((1.00 - 0.41) + 2 * 0.41)= 1.41 or 41% damage increase.

So IT/PS: 2405.94*1.41= 3392.37damage

DC from disease rotation: 4026.375*1.41= 5677.18 damage.
DC from No disease rotation: 3280.75*1.41= 4625.85 damage.

So the Disease rotation has:
5677.18+3392.37+35909.14+2841.46 = 47819.67 total damage.

And the No Disease rotation has:
47422.38+4625.85= 52048.22 total damage.

No disease Rotation scales much better with critical strike rating than the disease rotation.

BLOOD CAKED BLADE

So far the No disease rotation is ahead.
But for the numbers to be correct I need to come to BCB and the loss of two diseases on BCB damage.

I said we were using [Betrayer of Humanity] and 5000 ap so a 3.4 weapon speed with 758 weapon damage.

So with the no disease rotation BCB would be dealing:

(758+((5000*3.3) / 14))*0.25= 484.14 damage per proc

With the disease rotation BCB would be dealing:

(758+((5000*3.3) / 14))*0.50= 968.28 damage per proc

On a 16 seconds rotation using a 3.4 speed weapon BCB will proc:

(16/3.4)*0.3 = 1.41 procs.

So the no disease rotation would be dealing:

484.14*1.41 =683.49 damage

The disease rotation would be dealing:

968.28*1.41 =1365.27 damage


FINAL OUTPUT PER ROTATION

The final numbers are:

NO DISEASE ROTATION: 683.49 + 52048.22 =52731.71 damage per complete rotation.
DISEASE ROTATION: 1365.27 + 47819.67 =49184.94 damage per complete rotation.


So a no disease rotation works just fine. In fact it scales better with gear than a normal disease rotation.
Most Blood Dk's easily reach 50% and more Cc on OB/HS in a raid environment.

Depending on gear 51/0/20 is played with or without diseases.

With high levels of gear the no disease rotation offers higher returns in general but on AOE fights the extra 2*HS per rotation widen the gap.
Using the no disease rotation also allows to pick up 3/3 virulence and be spell capped with 264 hit rating (considering Sp/Draenei in your raid). Futher increasing dps on Death Coil.

Build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft
Major Glyphs: Blood Strike / Obliterate / Ghoul (or Rune Tap)
Minor Glyphs: Pestilence / Horn of Winter / Raise Dead

I got a bit bored and was trying to work out what kind of leeway i had within my 51/13/7 6xHS rotation, so I put this little image together in excel. It's clear to me, but if anyone is confused by it, just ask.



From the top down, you have time displayed in 0.5 second increments, the runes available, disease bars and abilities used. Time in seconds should be read as being shown on a timeline by the vertical lines to the right of the number. Likewise, the abilities can be seen to have been used on the vertical line demarkating the right hand edge of the column.

This is in Blood Presence.

The rotation, as everyone knows, is:
PS>IT>OB>HS>HS>DC
OB>HS>HS>HS>HS>DC

As you can see, to avoid gimping your damage because a disease has fallen off before your last HS hits, you must be accurate to within 0.5 of a second. Your last HS needs to be at 17.5 seconds into the rotation exactly to receive bonus damage. It is impossible to do it any earlier due to rune resources, and if you HS at 18 seconds, Blood Plague will have fallen off.

So if you're struggling to get this rotation down perfectly in blood presence, it is entirely understandable.

Coming Soon:
6xHS in Unholy Presence Diagram
3xOB in Blood Presence Diagram

Shouldn't this be a little higher? That's just the AP coefficient bonus without the base damage, isn't it?

Shit... I am tired... keep forgetting things... Thanks. It'll be fixed right away.

Yes, BCB is normalized (3.3 for 2H I believe).

Edit - Interesting numbers. I wonder how 2xOB 2xHS would compare when you factor in the 2pc/4pc bonuses on top of the Sigil of Awareness and OB glyph. I'm concerned that the BS glyph will still not work on raid boss monsters.

I suppose you'd have to factor in SD procs to get a better idea on single target. Also, it would make the Blood/Unholy Presence choice interesting because there's absolutely no way you're going to get 6xHS + DCs out in BP without pushing the rotation out too long.

The numbers are all without Blood presence. BCB and Necrosis in the template make Unholy attractive. But pulling off HS*6 with extra SDeath procs and Dcoils afterwards would be quite the feat in Blood presence.

Unholy seems to be forced upon it but isn't actually. You might lose some Dcoils (but 6*HS generates 60 RP) so the loss won't be enormous.

I'm thinking of trying to pop Sdeath procs in between HS>HS.

What's truly interesting is the scaling from gear and specialy from critical strikes (considering how easily Blood expertise/hit caps).

Using this rotation and skipping Dcoils (using Sdeath when it procs though) might be worth it just for the sake of 14 ap being 1 dps and aiming pure physical damage.

No, it would not.

Unholy Presence gives 15% more autoattacks, thereby increasing Necrosis damage by 15%.
Blood Presence increases damage dealt by 15%, thereby increasing Necrosis damage by 15%.

I am still looking for a proof, that the BS Glyph will work on Bossmobs (again: the dummy doesnt count, because he is not snareimmun).

But another question that come to my mind during our last raid concerning AoE trash:

As a 51 0 20 DK i always had to use D&Decay + Bloodboil spam in order to do some AoE dmg, but the patch will change 2 things.

1. Right now (pre patch) my BB crits for ~900-1300 depending on buffs, while my Pestilence crits for ~800.
With 3.0.8 Pestilence recieves a 60% dmg increase as a deep Blood DK which would push it over Blood Boil dmg AND is still spreading all diseases.
So am I right when i say that Blood Boil is no longer worth its slot on my Actionbars (this would also free up 1 slot/hotkey for Bloodstrike just in case i have to take care of cced mobs)?

2. Now that HS hits 2 targets, is it even worth spaming Pestilence at all? It requiers a lot of mobs to make Pestilence do more dmg than a HS on 2 targets doesn't it?

I agree with Dolgare, opening with OB is much better then the usual IT/PS for blood builds without Annihilation.

With DnD and HS cleave you are almost guarantee to pull threat if you are not running with extra tanks, I suppose it doesn’t matter either way. As for BB, it has a 30 yard range compare to the 10 yard pest, its nice for mala air and heigen dance.

As blood, I never use Blood Boil, even on AoE packs. I spread my diseases with Pest and just wail on mobs single target. Only reason I use Pest is so that on the next mob I won't have to waste time doing PS->IT. I don't do it as an AoE DPS increase.

And for point #2, I would say Pestilence is still absolutely worth it. Spamming? I wouldn't say so, only use it when your diseases are about to drop off or when the mob is about to die so that you don't have to PS->IT the next target, but I would absolutely use it on AoE pulls so that the 2nd target of Heart Strike gets the disease benefit.

Since the patch is hitting today, do you think 51/0/20 will be a lot more viable then 51/13/7? I'm excited to test out the changes, let me know what you guys find!

Why don't you grab a spreadsheet for yourself and find it out?

I'm not sure it's so obvious. It might depend on the fight duration and the number of DRW you can launch.
Regarding the 5x/0/2x spec, I have a question : is it worth putting two points in Epidemic ?
Strictly looking at the written rotation, it seems that only 1 point is necessary. Or is it because it doesn't include the Sudden Doom proc, which shift the GCD ?

Def 2, you will be constantly on gcd(blood pres) even if it’s a perfect rotation/priority system. With just 1 I find myself clipping the OB with 1 disease a lot more often. You can probably get away with 1 on fights like patch, since there are 0 movements/anything else to pay attention to.

Is this truly the case? The last that I recall this thread brooking the subject of 51/31/7 vs 51/0/20 the general consensus was "'whatever works for you". It was also concluded that both 51/13/7 and 51/0/20 were preferable to 50/0/21 even before the DRW buff and Garg nerf that are coming today with patch 3.0.8.

With the current content, everything can be summed up as whatever works for you. I personally was never able to produce better #s with a 51/13/7 vs 50/21 or 51/20, from the numerous wws/damage logs posted in this thread the same conclusion can be reached. I believe, the general consensus was people prefer to discuss/play 51/13/7, doesn’t have anything to do with better or worse.

I never did nearly as much DPS with a 51/13/7 spec as i do with a 51 0 20 build.

This might be just me because I like the playstyle/rotation more, I don't know, so yes, i think that 51 0 20 always was better or at least as good as the Annihilation build.
And the 20 Unholy subspec will always scale much better with gear than the frost subspec would.

3.0.8 will make the 51 0 20 spec even stronger.

I've been a really big fan of 51/13/7, however as of today I will likely be going 51/0/20, but I am now curious as to how useful the Sigil of Awareness will be compared to the new HS sigil (or Dark Rider). Being 51/13/7, Awareness was always a shiner due to the amount I use Oblit in a rotation. But, since using Oblit kills diseases with 51/0/20, would the Awareness sigil outperform Dark Rider and/or new HS sigil?