I'm right there with you, I'm going to switch to 51/0/20 once the servers are up. I am also debating on which sigil to use, I sold my dark rider a while ago (fail!). I'll post my results after some testing in a little while, I am going to try out that No disease rotation posted on the previous page and see how it compares to the normal 51/0/20 spec for me.

Sigil of the Dark Rider vs. Sigil of Awareness in a 51/0/20

a) Sigils themselves:
420x1(OB) vs 90x5(HS) = 30 in favor of dark rider

b) Talents:
While Obliterate only benefits from Might of Mograine, HS double dips from Bloody Strikes and MoM.

c) Glyphs:
20% more damage vs 20% more damage = wash.

The benefits of using sigil of awareness? There are a few:

1. You are lazy or lagging really badly(when you can’t complete a consistent 5hs rotation, sigil of awareness pulls ahead)
2. On certain fights/roles a perfect rotation is not possible (when you have to drop dnd/pest), when you have to grip sparks, or my favorite the archvon jump oor and fart…whatever it pulls ahead.
3. If you want to spec unholy for some reason it becomes godly…

Hello everyone, first time poster!

I also will be switching to the 51/0/20 spec once I get outta work that is. I am also wondering the same thing. With the changes to the sigil of haunted dreams......one would assume that it would be better for 51/0/20 spec.

Haunted dreams is 3% crit…its doesn’t even come close to darkrider or awareness…pretty sure the math was provided several pages back. Is it better then now? Yes. Is it good? Nope.

If memory serves correctly, sigil of the dark rider's +90 damage is spread evenly over four diseases, even though blood only really has access to two.

Didn’t know that, got a link?

Very useful is relative…with that said there is more than enough filler points to get those 2 talents(3points) if people find them useful. Personally, I would take bloodworms for free damage, since with VB/AMS/IBF you should have more then enough outs in PvE.

Blood provides +10% ap if you don’t have an enh shaman, in general you bring dps classes for one reason, to stay alive and top meters.

Really not seeing how BCB is better with Unholy Presence over Blood Presence.

So, they pushed this build to live and Obliterate is still broken (0 base RP granted). That puts a mean stink on 51/13/7 and the 2xOB 2xHS rotation.

Sorry if this is a bit offtopic, but I'm confused

They apparently changed DRW to cost 40 runic power.. yet the tooltip still reads exactly how it did pre-patch.. was there any actual change here?

Unholy melee auto attacks would generate more dps than blood, using Necrosis.

Blood= (x+.15x).2=z ~~.15= Blood Pressence dmg modifier*
Unholy= x+.2x=z ~~.2= Necrosis dmg

where x=auto-attack unmodified (I'm using a simple number for x... say 100), z=damage modified by pressence and necrosis

Plug in the numbers and you get this for one hit of auto-attack with a weapon that would hit for 100dmg/3seconds (assuming weapon speed to be 3 seconds.

Blood= 138dmg/3sec
Unholy= 120dmg/(3sec*.15)= 2.55sec ~~.15=15% more auto-attacks.

If the the weapon was allowed to swing in both conditions, you'd find that they would meet at 51 seconds. The blood pressence auto-attack would have 17 hits, producing 2346dmg. The Unholy pressence auto-attack would have hit 20 times, producing 2400dmg.

You can see in an amount of time equal by the two, Unholy pressence would produce more DPS using necrosis than Blood Pressence would.

Bad cache or something? My tooltip in live is showing the 40 RP.

Just noticed that DRW won't last longer than 20 seconds total which seems off as it should be lasting for 22 second with 100 RP now.

Edited the post to reflect DWR and oblite

DRW always sonsumed its own diseases, no change there

If you had a 100 damage auto attack.

Blood: 100 damage * 1.20 (Necrosis) * 1.15 (Blood Presence) = 138 damage per swing
138 damage / 3 seconds = 46 DPS

Unholy: 100 damage * 1.20 (Necrosis) = 120 damage per swing
120 damage / (3 seconds / 1.15) = 46 DPS

You don't understand haste mechanics.

No, I'm getting a 40 RP cost, but the tooltip also says "consumes all available runic power" with a duration of 10 seconds + 1 second per 5 RP .... I guess I don't really understand what the 40 RP part of it is then.

Quick question;

has DRW been updated to include hit rating yet? and if so, is it truely a 100% dps increase for the 20 (22?) seconds it's up? If so, that seems to be quite the skill.

Assuming that it IS working that way, then I have to admit, I've been wondering about a spec like this one:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Death Knight -> Talent Calculator

The extra 30 runic power would add an additional 6 seconds of DRW, for a total of 28 seconds if it works accurately.

Napkin math incoming, subject to change and/or complete inaccuracy:

Assuming 4000 DPS without DRW up:

28 second DRW every 180 seconds = 1/6th of your DPS time you'll do 8000 DPS, roughly.

so, with EXACTLY 4000 dps, over 180 seconds you deal 720000 damage

with DRW, for 28 seconds of 8000 + 152 seconds of 4000 dps = 832000 damage, or roughly 4622 dps

So unless my math is very wrong (and there is a chance that it is) DRW with this spec is a 622 dps increase, and it scales with higher dps for a higher gain.

Now the question is, is that extra 30 RP (plus all the frost bonuses) > then the bonus from necrosis and bcb?


edit: forgot the main point, according to those numbers, the 30 RP is a 266 DPS bonus, not including the extra DC's and such that you can use.

I've been using:

OB-IT-PS-HS-HS,HS-HS-HS-HS-OB,IT-PS-HS-HS-HS-HS
Filling in Death Coils at the end of sets and that slight pause during the 2nd iteration.

I know this is probably hidden somewhere in the depths of this thread but I have been unable to uncover it, do we have a set of weightings for 5x/0/2x?

I did some testing with regards to the blood strike glyph since there seems to be so much assumption and not much fact. Using 5 minute test periods (hardly conclusive but good enough for a quick check) with one using just PS (+1 disease for ease of mathification) vs IT (+1 disease and also melee snare) it was fairly obvious that there's no 20% of anything in there despite people's hopes. At the very least the torment of the weak change was NOT a change in mechanics but rather an individual fix for one talent.

Am I missing something with regards to FFBs multi-debuff or is that pretty much it?

You are right. I'm wrong. Sorry for the bad understanding of the Haste Mechanic. It's atleast provable by using the paperdoll in-game. It will show the Swing speed before and after the Unholy presence.

Ahh, that is a shame, it appears that you are right if your results were accurate, Torment the Weak was changed rather than the actual game-wide definition of snares. We need to find out from a dev of some sort whether this is intentional or simply an oversight.

In my opinion, as biased as I am, it seems unfair that one mechanic effectively redefines 'snares', but only for itself.