Did our 25 man clear tonight(link is to Patch, you can easily navigate to see the rest). Pretty happy with the changes so far. Started with Patchwerk, and I feel I did my rotation(51/0/20, OB-IT-PS-HSx6 rotation) perfectly there. Only other fight I feel I executed perfectly was Sapphiron.
DRW does seem a bit odd. It's melee'ing for almost the same amount I am, but the specials are 1/2 or 1/4 of the power of my own. I wouldn't mind seeing that rebalanced so if you can push out a ton of attacks in the time it's up, you can really boost the damage instead of just slightly doing it.
Blood Strike glyph wise, I had it tonight and we had Infected Wounds up for the first half, and halfway through our Mage respecced back to Frostfire Bolt, so I'm pretty sure we had both up the entire night. I didn't notice a difference in Heart Strike damage, but I've been using the glyph for weeks now. However I'm not enough of a math guy to figure out from the parse tonight if it was working or not.
I definitely think the spec is right where it should be, though. Perfect execution can yield very high results, and we aren't dependent on squishy pets to do the damage.
When everyone posts their fancy numbers for their 2600+ dps on boss dummies could they perhaps include a Recount screenshot? Say with the Detail and Graph window up? I love reading about these epic numbers yet when I go attempt the same experiment I find myself falling short. So either I fail at hitting buttons and standing behind a dummy or numbers are being inflated when discussed here.
In addition, I'm confused about the numbers people are posting for their DRW. I could have sworn I saw at least two different post about 30 second plus uptime. When I hit mine at 100 rune power I get 19 seconds exactly.
Tested out 51/0/20 spec tonight for 10 man Naxx. I'll be doing a 25 man Naxx this weekend and post results again then. We had to end short tonight so we're a wing and two kills short of a full clear, but hopefully you all can get something from what I can show for now.
I tried to follow this rotation as much as possible:
PS>IT>HS>HS>OB>DC
PS>IT>HSx4>OB>DC dump> (repeat)
Like I wrote there, tried out the 51/0/20 with 0 disease rotation which was posted earlier in this thread, and worked out pretty nicely for me atleast (Thaddius was fun) on fights like PW/Thaddius with no movement.
Didnt have a shaman in the group so wasnt hit caped nor exp caped (played 2h uh/dw prior to the patch).
Am I the only one to find this disturbing?
A build bypassing diseases doing so much damage, basically just mashing two buttons. Reminds me of combat rogues and their pretty basic sinister strike/rupture combo, with the occasional slince n dice refresh...
I suppose I've just been conditioned to view the diseases as necessary...this all just seems absurd to me.
So am I.
But I don't think this was expected by Blizzard. If this is confirmed, they'll probably adjust that in a future patch, lowering the core damage and increasing the bonus from diseases, for instance.
Diseases are part of the DK's gameplay for me and I can't imagine having to play without
Speaking of zero disease rotations, and your spreadsheet Doc. I plugged in a spec that this build got my thinking about and it gives me some very good numbers it is essentially the reverse of 0 disease blood, 0 disease frost. OB/OB/BS/BS/FSx2.5 OB/OB/OB/FSx3. Build is: 27/44/0
Maybe I did something wrong with altering the spreadsheet, but I think I got it right(turned FF/BP ticks to 0 etc) Basic premise being FS > DC, and going into blood for ap/crit/bloodvengance will maximize physical dps. The spec has to waste an amazing amount of talent points on things that don't help it at all single target. Still if I am not crazy on this one, according to the spreadsheet it is the highest 2h spec, and it would be by far the easiest rotation possible.
As Frost a proper rotation is better than a no-disease one.
DRW probably copies your stats but not talents, auto attacks and dot damage seems on par, but strike damage is super low.
As for thadd damage I would think we could easily break 8k(depending on average raid dps), log from pre patch forgot to use drw... WWS Loading...
Ayven, for how short Patch lasted, without diseases didn’t really do better than with diseases. I am loving your thadd #s, I will compare #s with diseases up this week. Your #s without diseases is pretty on par with diseases minus Thadd(which is a pretty unique fight).
Archetype you can boost your hegin damage by using bloodboil during the dance in conjunction with icy/dc. You might also want to try starting with OB rather then IT/PS
Wow Web Stats
For Patch was missing +13% magic damage and moonkin aura, was using the awareness sigil, and should have probably used darkrider? In general underman/other achievements made the fights longer.
But I don't think this was expected by Blizzard. If this is confirmed, they'll probably adjust that in a future patch, lowering the core damage and increasing the bonus from diseases, for instance. Diseases are part of the DK's gameplay for me and I can't imagine having to play without
Agreed, I don't know that it's a good idea to get too excited about a rotation that, if successful, is almost certain to get stomped on by Blizzard.
On the subject of DRW, I am running 51/13/7 and noticed DRW diseases are not removed via Obliterate any more due - I assume due to Annihilation. This was tested a couple of time on the ebon hold dummy.
It's definitely still removing its own diseases:
That's with the sequence PS - IT - OB, all of which the Rune Weapon copied.
So, those of you who are really liking the 51/0/20 and are getting good results: what kinds of rotations are you doing? I'm unable to get the same kind of results on the boss target dummy. It had hit points, so necrosis was definitely working. I'll post screenshots if you want, but to avoid a massive post, here's the basic rundown. All tests were a short 3 mins (I was trying to compare rough proportions with the Patchwerk WWSes posted here), Horn of Winter used, DRW/Hysteria not used.
51/13/7, OBx3 rotation: 2694 dps
50/0/21, diseaseless: 2396 dps
50/0/21, PS IT HSx2 OB PS IT HSx4: 2483 dps
50/0/21, same but with Dark Rider Sigil instead of Awareness: 2138 dps
The contributions of Necrosis and BCB to my dps were usually around 6% and 2% respectively, which is about 1% short each of where I see it raid buffed on the WWSes, so that makes sense. Ravenous Dead and Shadow of Death add about 30 strength, which isn't a huge amount. The biggest difference that I can see looking at Eej's Patchwerk numbers is that I really need to get a Greatness Card (4 procs in 2:30? yes please). I'm just trying to figure this out because I had kind of a sub-par Patchwerk (4800 dps) on Patch Day compared to what I expected. I think I did several things suboptimally including DRW, plus I was missing several upgrades I got later that night including Betrayer, and the overall kill was kind of slow for my guild, possibly related to the issues with Wintergrasp crashing the world server and resetting every few minutes.
I think I'll be sticking with 51/13/7 because 1) Obliterate receives significant bonuses from 2pc and 4pc t7. It's critting at a rate of 60% unbuffed, and it generates 25 RP, and 2) While the diseaseless rotation seems pretty viable for 50/0/21, a "proper" rotation becomes clearly the better choice with Annihilation and Epidemic: IT + PS + diseases contribute more total damage over 20 seconds for a single UF use than my highest Obliterate crit. I'll post some WWS next week for comparison.
Leaflock I would recommend you not trying to test dps with a 51/0/20 diseaseless on a dummy.
It's a build that benefits from a raid situation.
Try it out in a raid you'll see for yourself.
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Vôtre score de connard prétentieux est très exactement de 95
51/13/7, OBx3 rotation: 2694 dps
50/0/21, diseaseless: 2396 dps
50/0/21, PS IT HSx2 OB PS IT HSx4: 2483 dps
50/0/21, same but with Dark Rider Sigil instead of Awareness: 2138 dps
Your results are almost identical to mine. I just can't seem to beat 51/13/7, OBx3 rotation no matter what I try. :/
Archetype you can boost your hegin damage by using bloodboil during the dance in conjunction with icy/dc. You might also want to try starting with OB rather then IT/PS
i was dead for a good 2 minutes otherwise i usually do fine
Leaflock I would recommend you not trying to test dps with a 51/0/20 diseaseless on a dummy.
It's a build that benefits from a raid situation.
Try it out in a raid you'll see for yourself.
I think you'll find that all the builds benefit from a raid situation, actually.
The diseaseless rotation makes perfect sense in 51/0/20-- no contest there. You're trading PS, IT, and at most 3 ticks of disease for an Obliterate, which is going to be a pretty equivalent trade, I think. It also gets a bit of an edge for using extra Obliterates versus a diseased 51/0/20 rotation. My point was that for 51/13/7, there's no contest. Breaking down this week's Patchwerk, crits excluded:
Average Plague Strike hit: 788
Average Icy Touch hit: 2117
Average Blood Plague tick: 701
Average Frost Fever tick: 905
Considering that 51/13/7 gets all 6 ticks of disease with Epidemic and Annihilation, that's 12541 damage, not including the bonus damage contributed to 3 Obliterates and 4 Heart Strikes, or the damage from a crit on either PS or IT. All of that damage for a single UF use over 20 seconds. This also doesn't include 15 additional RP (assuming IT glyph) compared to using those UF for an Obliterate. I only go diseaseless while DRW is up, and when a rotation begins with less than 20 seconds remaining in the fight.
As my previous posts mentioned, I just the other day switched to 51/0/20 (with points in Epidemic). The rotation that yielded the highest results for me was Oblit > IT > PS > HS x6 > Repeat. Dump your RP after every Oblit (or before if you have time to spare. I usually could fit one in, just to get that extra second on disease ticks).
Next week I'm going to spec 51/13/7 and see what kind of numbers I can produce, see how they compare to this, but for now 51/0/20 with the rotation I mentioned in the most DPS I've ever been able to pull, so I'm currently happy.
I tried using the no disease test today... was interesting and will give it a shot in raid this weekend as well. Here are some pics for those interested on just target dummy data. i wasn't using any specific rotation on this.... just started with OB>OB> then just spammed HS and then DC when i got a SD proc, also keeping the death runes coming with OB's when needed.
The proper rotation for a 51/0/20 has been posted a couple of times in the last 3 pages. I would love to see some logs for 51/13/7
Actually, there are at least 2 "proper rotations" for 51/0/20, since some people take Epidemic, and others do not. I was mostly curious as to the rotations of those who posted results but no rotation, and if anyone was using any other variant. I want to keep testing all possibilities before I stick with 51/13/7.
If you go disease less you can skip epdi, if you are using ps and it you can’t skip epid. If you want to properly test 51/0/21 with diseases then use (I am sorry if I sound frustrated as this was repeated by myself and others in the past 3pages numerous times, we even have those that have used/changed to this rotation testifying to the positive results):
OB IT PS HS HS DC - start
rotation:
HS HS HS HS OB DC
IT PS HS HS HS HS DC
HS HS OB IT PS DC
My DPS jumped up from 4500 to 5263 on Patchwork.
In addition to that, the "aoe trash performance" is just amazing as well with 3.0.8.
After a complete clear, i was #2 in total dmg dealt including all bosses and trash, which is simply amazing.
Pre 3.0.8 i wasn't able to get even close to those numbers (most of the time around #10-15 overall).
So yes, i LOVE the patch as a 51 0 20 DK.
Now i just have to get better gear and 6k DPS on Patchwork will be no problem.
PS: During the Thaddius fight, we had 5-6 sec lags but the result is still very interesting.
Last edited by Tharvos : 01/22/09 at 10:36 PM.
My english isn't perfect, but i hope you can understand it.
rotation:
HS HS HS HS OB DC
IT PS HS HS HS HS DC
HS HS OB IT PS DC
Another way to put this, and was easier for me to follow, is to always start with Oblit, PS and IT, then just do HS 6 times weaving in DC whenever you have a SD proc or are sitting on a GCD, and dump after every Oblit.
Originally Posted by Tharvos
Here is my WWS from our Nax25 raid today:
Wow Web Stats
I am very proud about the patch. My DPS jumped up from 4500 to 5263 on Patchwork.
In addition to that, the "aoe trash performance" is just amazing as well with 3.0.8.
After a complete clear, i was #2 in total dmg dealt including all bosses and trash, which is simply amazing.
Pre 3.0.8 i wasn't able to get even close to those numbers (most of the time around #10-15 overall).
So yes, i LOVE the patch as a 51 0 20 DK.
Now i just have to get better gear and 6k DPS on Patchwork will be no problem.
PS: During the Thaddius fight, we had 5-6 sec lags but the result is still very interesting.
Tharvos, what rotation did you use, as there's many going around a few of us are curious how various rotations and talent choices compare.
I went ahead and tested this myself on the target dummy in stormwind, it did have HP on it (so necrosis should factor in). I DID pop DRW and timed my ERW with it as well... I tried it in both blood and unholy presence and both were pulling 2500 dps. My gear is also significantly better than yours....
Your gear is better than mine but not enormously; you have about 25AP and ~3.5% crit on me, that's about it.
Also, the [Sigil of the Dark Rider] is better than the [Sigil of Awareness] for the OBx2 -> HSx8 rotation I believe (haven't been able to get Awareness yet - has only dropped once for us).
If I have time before Naxx tonight I'll login and take a recount on the dummies.
[Edit]
I did a quick test in Ebon Hold and it looks like I was indeed hitting the adjacent target with Heart Strikes. Doh!
Going to another city to find a dummy standing further away.
[Edit #2]
Had to use a Boss dummy, it was the only one furthest away so that Heart Strike would not hit any additional targets.
Normal rotation: (PS -> IT -> HS -> HS -> OB -> DC (SD) -> <<PS -> IT -> HSx4 -> OB -> DC (SD)>> over 4 minutes with no cooldowns or buffs produced 2117 DPS.
No diseases rotation (OBx2 -> HSx8) over 4 minutes with no cooldowns or buffs produced 1948 DPS.
01/22/09, 3:00 AM
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