Thats not just impressive,thats downight fuckin excellent.What was your exact rotation for the fight?I would very much so like to mickin your rotation to try to pull the same results.

Nah, I'm making sure to use Sudden Doom procs as soon as they come up.

That is really, really impressive. I would also like to see an exact rotation on that. My only concern is if I'm reading the charts correctly is the fight only lasted 2:35 seconds. From my understanding is that blood can spike like crazy under optimal circumstances during short fights, but then falls to being mediocre during longer fights. Maybe this is a good start to blood becoming more viable in raid situations. Also Not sure if this would be considered cross posting or not, but you might want to put this in the top dps thread that we have. I think it would be very worth while to pick it a part to see just how good this can get and if it can be replicated.

From what I can tell from the WWS, he's just doing OB, OB, HS, HS and doesn't use death runes to use extra HS's so the rotation stays the same.

I agree that DRW or Garg does benefit shorter fights, but thats just the way it is. If the fight was a bit longer he would of gotten a second DRW too, so does it really apply?

He has 2x more sockets (blacksmith) for 32 more base str, and 3x JC gems to give 33 more base str.

110 AP more than you not taking into account any modifiers (like your 64 ap to shoulder over his 40 ap). Judging by the already large gap in your AP I am assuming you aren't full 213 either, so he has some more armor value and thus a tid bit more from Bladed Armor.

Yeah it was pretty much just hammering out the same rotation over again. Sudden Doom procs went immediately, also if it came down to it I didnt mind pushing back runes by 2 seconds for an extra DC and they come back in 8s anyways. Big thing was timing on the DRW and using ERW to get an extra set of runes in with it i felt.

Jmack's results really encourage me to go on playing a blood DK.
Jmack, do you have an idea about how the no diseases rotation improves your DPS ? I mean, what rotation you used before and what were the results you had with it, in order to give us an idea - even a rough one- of the gain ?

Yeah same with me. Blood was my favorite spec. Unfortunately from my own testing and the numbers I've seen here, I would assume that you really have to be geared well in order for blood to be worth it. Jmack has almost best in slot for everything including the heigan sigil, four tier 7 pieces, and the betrayer. Still this is very encouraging.

I'm guessing you have to be extremely well geared and have the gods on your side to see great blood dps numbers because I'm still seeing a huge dps loss switching from unholy to blood.

I want it to work. I like the playstyle, the talents, the raid buffs. Plus our guild doesn't have any blood DKs that raid currently, so I'd be bringing something new to the table. I just really like my #1 spot >_>

I've had pretty similar results over the past few weeks as diseaseless blood, although my numbers aren't quite as good since my average fight time is a lot longer. I'm generally up around the 7-8k mark until ~1:30 in, and then it drops off pretty quick until the second set of cds. Again just spamming obliterate/hs as they come up and making sure to prioritize SD procs above all else.

This week:
WoW Meter Online - The Best World of Warcraft Combat Log Analyse System!Fully support Wrath of the Lich King!

Would have posted sooner, but I couldn't remember my account password.

EDIT: This spec does very poorly against target dummies, so it's not really worth trying. You absolutely NEED sunder up as well as the FFB debuff in order to do decent dps. In 10mans I don't have nearly the power unless it's a full melee group with all the buffs I'd have in 25man raids.

From 3.1 preview on the official forums:

# Sudden Doom – this talent now procs a Death Coil rather than requiring an additional button click. It works similarly to shamans’ Lightning Overload.
# Blood Gorged now grants armor penetration instead of expertise.

Things are looking good

looks like 6x HS rotations might be in the limelight if that goes through.

You hit the nail on the head here. I feel exactly the same about it, but for now im not interested in DPS at the end of a fight.. im interested in damage done at the end. Most of the time i see blood spec WMO's with these 5k-6k marks but with less damage done overall compared to UH and DW specs.

At the risk of crossposting here's the FAQ I whipped up for Blood. I'm still seeing quite a few people wandering into this thread with questions answered in the FAQ. So read it if you're new. Blood pros please comment on it as well. Let me know what I missed as I'm by no means perfect.


Blood DPS : The Specs
51/0/20 DiseaseFree! - The current Blood Spec to beat. Virulence over Epidemic as a missed Icy Touch or Death Trance'd Death Coil can be quite sad.

51/0/20 AlternaBlood! - Depending on your rotation Epidemic COULD be in the cards for you. Makes a tight rotation a little looser.

51/13/7 - The "I have a Betrayer and [Sigil of Awareness] and can double Oblit for win" spec. Can be competitive with 51/0/20 but isn't advisable if you lack the gear. Toughness over Black Ice to buff Bladed Armor. 2 points can sit in either Glacier Rot or Icy Reach. But really if you've got the Sigil pony up for the first spec.

The Gear
Q: I just hit 80 and exalted with Ebon Blade. Can I go Blood now?
A: I really wouldn't recommend it. Blood is fairly gear dependent. You're using a lot of Heart Strikes and Obliterates which need a nice big fancy weapon to do big numbers. Running in with [Runeblade of Demonstrable Power] and expecting to keep up with the similarly geared DW DK is asking for heartache.
Q: So when the heck do I start putting my points into Hysteria so I can cast it on myself and laugh at the rogues and fury warrior?
A: When you have a nice big slow 2-hander. At least something like the [Colossal Skull-Clad Cleaver]. The harder the hitting the weapon the better your dps.
Q: OMG I just spent my badges on [Sigil of Haunted Dreams] am I going to bring the pain?
A: No. You will not. And when people inspect you they may laugh. Stick with the [Sigil of the Dark Rider] until Heigan stops being rude and hands over his [Sigil of Awareness]. Once acquired clutch it to your bosom and wait for 3.1 and a better Blood sigil.
Q: But what about the cute [Sigil of the Wild Buck]? It sounds sexy.
A: As sexy as it may be death coils just aren't THAT significant a part of most current blood rotations. You're better off with your starter sigil and a prayer.
Q: Seriously? But one's EPIC and the other wasn't acquired at level 55.
A: Okay some have suggested that with a DISEASE FREE rotation [Sigil of the Dark Rider] might not be so hot a choice. However further testing/math revealed that [Sigil of Haunted Dreams] only has a 5% uptime and is thus inferior. This math also showed that [Sigil of the Wild Buck] is still only so so.
Q: In people talk. Until Awareness drops WHAT I DO?!?!?
A: Stay with [Sigil of the Dark Rider].

The Rotation
Note: Depending on your glyph and floater spec points you will be using either Icy Touch or Plague Strike first. Hopefully you've read the tooltips or your glyphs and spec and know which should start things off.

51/0/20 DiseaseFree!
Currently the scuttlebutt is axing diseases = profit/dps for a well geared Blood DK. Pros? Super super easy rotation. Very forgiving rotation and plenty of time for Death Coils. Cons? You need very nice gear to pull it off.

OB>OB>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP

Take diseases off your bars and keep those Death Runes up!

51/0/20 AlternaBlood!
If you're running with diseases you're sitting on a very tight rotation. Error means smaller numbers and a reaming for a raid leader. You scared? I am every time I go into 3d Sarth. Anyways...

OB>IT>PS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>HS>HS>OB>RUNE DUMP
IT>PS>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>OB>IT>PS>RUNE DUMP

Now rinse and repeat. The idea is to use Oblit to refresh death runes and remove diseases. That's it. Death Coil should only be used when everything is on CD or you have a Death Trance! proc.

51/13/7
Congrats. You're trying the former king of the Blood jungle. It isn't quite as good as it used to be and it is largely dependent on churning out Oblits. Personally if you're that Oblit happy I'd say move onto Frost, but you have your reasons. Here's your rotation.

IT/PS>PS/IT>HS>HS>OB>RUNE DUMP
OB>HS>HS>OB>RUNE DUMP

Okay I lied. You have two rotations. The above is better off in Unholy Presence. A 51/13/7 spec is also gonna get a lot of use out of:

OB>IT/PS>PS/IT>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
OB>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP

Unlike the non-Epidemic 51/0/20 spec you have more leeway with getting your heart strikes out. Enjoy your free time.

The Presence
Q: Blood Presence is a lot of fun and even though I'm spec'd into Blood Aura I like that 15% bonus to damage. Can I stay in Blood?
A: Sure. For the most part choice of presence is a matter of preference. For your pleasure I will now list pros and cons of each presence.

Blood
Pros: 15% damage to all your attacks. You hit like a truck and make mobs cry.
Cons: Blood has a very tight rotation. In a movement heavy fight you may feel penalized. Also due to the limitations of a 1.5 second GCD you can't just fire off death coils when you have the time. The idea is the 15% damage to all your other attacks outweighs the potential extra death coils each cycle.

Unholy
Pros: You can run real fast....no but really, you're not limited by the GCD so in a movement heavy fight you can squeeze in another Heart Strike before your diseases tick off. You can also squeeze in a few more Death Coils.
Cons: You're losing out on 15% extra damage to every attack you make. You're not dual wielding or a rogue but a big hoss with a 2-handed weapon. Not hitting like a truck could make you cry.

Frost
Get out of my FAQ.

AOE
Q: My BFF is spec'd into Howling Blast and/or Wandering Plague and just laughs as he spams stuff and wins. What do I do?
A: Cry. No I'm just joshing ya. Remember we got a CLEAVE. Part of Blood AOE is discretion. Ask yourself a series of questions when coming into an AOE pack. Am I glyphed in DnD? Are these things going to go down in a few seconds? Am I wearing underpants?

Generally when you're pulling a pack of elite mobs it's best to go PS>IT>Pestilence>Heart Strike>Blood Tap>DnD. Then just worry about keeping those diseases up while you cleave for win.

On squishier fare (like the baby drakes on Sarth) you'll go DnD>PS>IT>Pestilence. Then they're dead and you're back on the boss. Remember you're not a Frost or Unholy DK. Use your discretion and glower at them...and the mages...and the warlocks...and that freakish Shadow Priest that tops the meter every dang time. Bastard.

Glyphs
There are two Glyphs you should ALWAYS have. [Glyph of Obliterate] and [Glyph of Blood Strike]. Before you ask, yes Blood Strike works for Heart Strike. After these two glyphs you've got a free slot. Death and Decay, Ghoul and Plague Strike are all great options. If you're just starting into 10/25 mans and raid dps is eh go with Plague Strike. If you do a lot of AOE pulls then consider Death and Decay. If you're killing Patchwerk in under 3 minutes then Ghoul is a great choice.

Itemization and Gems and Professions
Q: I got my T7 helm. What meta should I load into this puppy?
A: [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] is the choice for you. Don't believe me? Read this.
Q: This slot doesn't require a blue or a red or a yellow what do I stick in it?
A: [Bold Scarlet Ruby]
Q: Clearly the above answers my question for red slots as well. But what of yellow or blue slots? That socket bonus is tight yo.
A: Do you REALLY need that socket bonus? Okay. What evs. Might I suggest something from our lovely [Etched Monarch Topaz] or [Inscribed Monarch Topaz] line? What? You need to match a BLUE socket. Very well. Many find our [Sovereign Twilight Opal] to be a fetching shade.
Q: Shut it! I want some attack power or armor penetration or haste. They all seem to be flashier.
A: Flashier maybe, but not for a DK. Especially a Blood DK. Remember you get a ton out of Strength and it counts for about 2 attack power. That's sexy.
Q: Quick! Haste or agility on my cloak?
A: Survey says...haste. Not sure why but I'll follow the pack and the currently flawed Rawr on this one.
Q: Later in this FAQ you make a big fuss about sunders and you're telling me not to gem for Armor pen? You're dumb.
A. No YOU ARE. The armor pen you gain from your gear and debuffs is more then enough.
Q: So haste or armor pen when I choose gear?
A: Armor pen. Haste benefits you melee swing and your death coil. Armor Pen benefits HS, Oblits, and Melee. A lovely fellow did the math to back up the statement here.
Q: I noticed you're an engineer? How's that working out for you?
A: Currently Hyperspeed Accelerators give you 340 haste rating for 10 seconds every 60 seconds. Someone better with arithmetic then myself did the math. It comes out to about 57 haste rating static which just barely beats out 44 attack power. If you were daft like me and went Engineering then enjoy, but they're currently not worth dropping another profession for.
Q: Man I haven't even started leveling professions yet. What do you suggest?
A: Plenty of threads show the pros and cons of each profession. JC/BS is currently the best for an eager little minmaxer.

Things to Remember
Q: What the heck does [Glyph of Blood Strike] work on anyways?
A: [Glyph of Blood Strike] works when the target is snared. That means Frost Nova, Desecration, Chains of Ice, Frostfire Bolt and any other SNARE. Even if the debuff does not necessarily work on the target (like Sarth) the glyph still works. Don't believe me? See here and here.
Q: So does Frost Fever count as a snare?
A: No. No it doesn't. Don't confuse debuffs classified as snares for a Mage's Torment of the Weak with what is classified as a snare for the rest of us. Yes it's a double standard. Get over it.
Q: Halp! I fail on the Boss Dummy and my dps is only so so in raids. WHAT I DO?
A: Um...is sunder up? Look at your damage. More then 50% of it comes from physical attacks which are mitigated by a target's armor. That means your warrior has to sunder or your rogue has to expose armor. It also means you may not do the same damage as an identically geared DK spec'd into Frost of Unholy. They rely on more attacks that are NOT mitigated by armor.
Q: My DPS still fails. Blood is dumb.
A. Blood is like a lot of DPS classes. Stacked cooldowns can make or break your dps. DRW and your Ghoul get their stats and dps from you. If you pop them just whenever you'll do okay DPS. If you pop them when a trinket and Fallen Crusader procs and cast Hysteria on yourself AND blow your other trinket or racial all right as Bloodlust is being popped? Profit.
Q: So I pop my ghoul and DRW at the same time? Right before or right after Bloodlust?
A: Tricky. DRW benefits from Bloodlust if it has just been popped on you. Ghoul, like most other pets beyond your control (mages know what I'm talking about) must already be summoned when Bloodlust goes. Work with your shaman and raid leader. In a former life I raided as a mage and had a VERY annoying DPS macro that indicated my pets and trinkets and other goodies were all being blown. Shamans could notice that and pop BL after they saw it....or at least I like to think that's why they did it.

Thank you for taking the time to summarize all this information.

Switching out from the 51/13/7 spec I gave the 51/0/20 a shot in Naxx last night using the diseasless 2xHS 2xOB rotation.

Overall the spec felt an improvment in both the ability to actually score damage off trash with corpse explosion, and the single target DPS seemed to go upward. I'd link WWS but if it wasn't for absolute healer fail at Patchwerk thus causing mass melee deaths I would have lasted more than 10 seconds (/facepalm)


Looking at the changes to the talent tree, the new Sudden Doom change is crying for an ICD otherwise a diseaseless rotation with DRM followed by 6x HS is going to cause possibly unintended problems. If it is intended then it's certainly going to be a huge DPS increase.

The loss of expertise for ARP is something I'm in two minds over. I currently factor ARP in my stats due to the choice between it and haste being a no brainer, and while it works rather well, my gear setup is designed to have expertise cap with Blood Gorged. Dependant on how Blizzard go ahead with their announced plans to buff ARP will probably throw my decision one way or the other.

Either way, it's looking a good time to be Blood.

And furthermore, OB won't benefit from the diseases. (Anyway , thank you for taking time making this guide.)

Not exactly. Missing too many dumps.

Both Eej and Nen have written out the "rotation" for a 51/0/20 epidemic build over the last few pages.

OB-IT/PS-HS-HS-Dump-Dump

HS-HS-Dump-HS-HS-OB

PS/IT-Dump-HS-HS-HS-HS-Dump-Dump-HS-HS-OB x Boss Dead

or

Start:
OB IT PS HS HS DC

Rotation:
HS HS HS HS OB DC
IT PS HS HS HS HS DC
HS HS OB IT PS DC

Eh? There's no reason to use Unholy Presence for the 3xOB, 4xHS rotation. There's more than enough time to do:

PS/IT > OB > HS > HS > DCx2
OB > OB > HS > HS > DCx2

Unholy Presence was contemplated for the HSx6 rotation due to the extra GCD.

Why would you spec for Annihlation and then use IT/PS to start the 2nd rotation line? If this is supposed to be the HSx6 rotation, the 2nd line starts with OB followed by HSx4. And this is the MORE GCD bound rotation.

To prevent confusion, you may want to revise your MMO-Champion talent page for the 51/0/20 AlternaBlood spec; it looks like you have tanking glyphs in place of Blood DPS glyphs, which could be confusing to a newcomer to the spec.

A little confused why you're using BS instead of HS in your rotation. Heart Strike works with the Blood Strike Glyph. Shouldn't the rotation be more like OB>OB>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP
HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>HS>RUNE DUMP Then fitting in sudden doom procs as they come?

OK I've been reading all these posts for some time now, and after our Naxx 25 run last night (when i finally switched from 51/13/7 to the 51/0/20 build) I only managed to pull 3400 dps.
I'm using the
OB-IT/PS-HS-HS-Dump-Dump
HS-HS-Dump-HS-HS-OB
PS/IT-Dump-HS-HS-HS-HS-Dump-Dump-HS-HS-OB rotation and I felt that I didn't flub on it up on most bosses. Did I put points somewhere I shouldn't have? (Oh and yes I know i dropped 1 point in Virulence for Corpse Explosion, I needed something entertaining to do when Warlocks died) but other than that can anyone give me an idea?

edit: here is the WWS from my 51/0/20 night Wow Web Stats

clairecakes let me know when you're done with the FAQ and I'll shove it into the first post.