Ghoul control + Ghoul Str/stam/lower CD + Necrosis + 15% DC damage[remember sudden doom] (optional: BCB or PS Damage, Runic Power Cap)

VS

IT Damage + More IT/FF damage + 3 crit on melee attacks +Runic Cap

It's a little rough to model potential ghoul uptime but everything else seems to add up higher than the extra damage that OB would bring vs DS.

Remember that HS gets a double 30% crit modifier.

Yes, seems more like it. In other words, if OB/DS - (IT+PS) > HS. Put simpler if the gain from doing OB/DS instead of IT+PS equals or surpasses the dmg of one HS, which I somewhat doubt.

Has there been any testing done to see if there is an ICD on Sudden Doom? Otherwise, I don't see why you would consider a rotation that doesn't maximize the number of HS done per disease refresh.

(I'm having too much fun with the thread title.)

Anyone that is on test able to verify that Blood Aura does not heal the raid anymore? The wording sounds like they removed it, but I would like to remain hopeful.

Rune Overcharge

The right way to think about rune overcharge is that runes don't fill to 100%. They overcharge to 125%.

This overcharge remains for either 10 sec or until you leave combat. Then it resets.

This gives a net effect of giving you up to 2.5 seconds to spend a rune before losing rune-charge time. This makes variable length rotations a bit easier, without permanently making runes recharge at 7.5 sec instead of 10

The rotation he was originally talking about was 2xDS, PS+IT, 6xHS
What I was suggesting was 2xDS, 7xHS, 1xPest

Ahhh. All that math for nothing. My toon has 11 expertise without any exp rating gear. I assumed this all came from blood gorged. Where is the other 6 expertise coming from? Is it a static number for all races even without racial talents similar to orc's + axes?

Even with me miscalulating the expertise given by the talent. The DPS % increase from the new version of the talent should still be correct. So I suppose it was not a completely worthless post. I will edit the post for correctness sake.

This really isn't possible because of one major problem...

Morbidity

Your 25RP gained by 4T7 OBs is really more like 21.25 (25*(1-0.15%))

Your Sudden Doom procs will be 15% less effective as well.

Other minor concerns are that your white attacks will be short 20% shadow damage, your ghoul will be nearly useless, you might fall out of Blood Gorged more often (reaching here), etc.

All this in exchange for 3% melee crit, some more damage on IT and FF and maybe a slightly harder hitting FU ability that gives you 10 more RP to do 15% less damage with.

I've been wrong before though...


Edit: Also off topic, to comment on the lack of respect for ArP, ArP is one of bloods most valuable stats after STR and 8(7)% Hit and Expertise.

The other 6 expertise are from Veteran of the Third War. All in all I think I'm going to like the new Blood Gorged. Not up on PTR yet so no testing, damn you blizzard!

Even if you're tooling for Death Strike, there's no reason you can't still get good use out of Obliterate when your diseases are about to fall off and you don't have a Blood rune handy to refresh with Pestilence, or you're low on RP and won't get full benefit from DS, or the mob is about to die.

Thank you very much for clearing this up. I think I got a tunnel vision figuring out the benefit of ArP for a blood based dps spec.

New PTR build with talent tree changes.

First things I've noticed is that the BB damage in Bloody Strikes has gone up to 20/40/60% BS/HS remains as it was.

Bloodboil also added to MoM crit damage increase.

Just did some testing on the new build, no buffs but horn. I only tested for a couple minutes to get a general idea of what things were hitting for, so I'm not going to be posting exact numbers. If nobody has done so by tomorrow night or whenever I have time to do so, I'll put up a wws or something. With this said, 51/2/18 seems really strong (3500+ sustained on dummy > 0%) using the following spec:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?deat...0&version=9626

Glyphs were DS/BS/OB, although I'll be switching OB for DRW as soon as I get the glyph made. Used BS sigil.

The rotation is a bit screwy here (apply diseases->use DS for FU and HS for B/D->DCx1->OB as diseases are about to fall off if I have FU up) since I'm trying to maintain as much RP as possible at all times for the DS glyph, so I only dump one dc after each set of runes. I waste a little, but I think it's worth it to keep the rotation clean and maximize my DS damage. HS damage has gone up a LOT on PTR. My hits were 2600-3300 and my crits were 6k minimum, had some freakish 8k-8.5k crits with Hysteria on. DS does surprising damage now, critting for 6.7ish avg, up to 7.7-8k with hysteria. RP never fell below 90 after I got it up there to start, so this is something to keep in mind. Obliterate was hitting about the same as usual (2800-4k depending on procs/hysteria), and believe it or not I didn't get a single crit with it in my 5 mins of testing.

Another thing to note is that I'm currently playing diseaseless blood on live, so I tested it out on the PTR to see how it did. While HS did hit harder diseaseless than it does now on live, there's really no comparison. Diseaseless strikes can't compare with the new scaling on HS/OB, although DS is unaffected. HS does on average 500-1000 less noncrit without diseases, and PS can do up to 4k with crits.

Lastly, I realize this may not be the absolute BEST build for blood atm, but I'm testing it mostly since I don't have the OB sigil and this requires me to alter my spec accordingly.

Has anyone ever thought of using the old 3 OB rotation and substitute the OB with DS's?

IT-PS-DS-HS-HS-DS-DS-HS-HS and using deathcoils in between

There's no reason to use the third DS as HSx2 will massively trump the damage of a single DS in the new patch.

Also as a response to Ten, I don't think keeping RP high just for increased DS damage is worth it if you're leaving a full GCD to rot. a death coil will be consuming 40 RP, which has an opportunity cost of 16% to the death strike's damage. I highly doubt 16% damage increase on a DS will make up for a death coil, at any gear level.

I agree with that. I tried the rotation IT PS HSx2 DS DC but I found using 2x DC is better. The extra DC would amount to more damage than saving the RP for 16% more DS damage. I pushed about 3.2k-3.4k dps on the boss dummy using 51/2/18.The rotation i used was:

IT PS HS HS DS DC DC DS HS HS HS HS rinse and repeat.

It does suck that the sigil of awareness is pretty much crap now. I am still wondering if I should use Sigil of haunted dreams or sigil of the dark rider.

The abom's might uptime concern is actually a good point. But I think the cycle will have to be something like this to take advantage of disease duration:

OB IT PS HS HS DC
HS HS DS HS HS DC

This also brings up the topic of OB glyph vs DS glyph. I'm fairly certain at this point that ghoul glyph still yields more than either one of those, and that leaves you with a tough choice on the third glyph. My gut is telling me OB over DS, but it shouldn't be hard to do some simple math and figure it out.

Abomination's Might Uptime:

Now, Going with a "standard" rotation:
The longest time between 2 HS's is HS DS DC DC DS HS or 5 GCD = 7.5 seconds.

Now, assuming that either of the two first HS's apply the disease at all, the following are mathematically likely. The numbers below are assuming that the 2nd HS procs Abom's Might (Add 1.5 Seconds for the additional cool down for how long AM would be down if the first HS proc'd it instead of the 2nd)

Going from the Beginning of the rotation IT > PS > HS > HS > DS > DC > DC there is a 50% chance it will not fall off at all (the first HS re-applies it), a 25% chance of it being down for .5 Seconds (2nd HS), 12.5% chance its down for 2 Seconds, and finally if you follow the pattern 6.25% chance that it never gets re-applied before you have to start the rotation again at which case its down for a minimum of 2 GCDs before you can HS again.

NOTE: Anyone wondering about the math, the chance of Abom's Might not being applied at all, given the number of HS=n is given by 1 - ((2^n)-1)/(2^n) Then just add in the time between attacks assuming that the previous one did not proc it.


None of these chances are all too terrible, nor all too great. Also, this is assuming a ideal situation where you are never late on casting your HS and aren't really moving around at all.

The conclusion I reach is that although AM will be up most of the time, if OB is not used at all there will be a lot of it dropping off for a fraction of a second, or a GCD and then being re-applied.

I just grabbed this rotation because it was the closest one to the end that didn't have any OB's, but similar math can be used to calculate down time for any other rotation.

-3.1 max dps i found is blood spec 51/0/20 on boss target dummy.
-Glyph of ghoul / plague strike/ obliterate
-Rotation, Blood Presence, Start out with blood tap and then 2x obliterate then Empower rune weapon.
-Then go into the sequence of plague strike, ice touch, heart strike x4, Death Coil, Obliterate, Death Coil, Repeat.

I was getting 3500 dps on target dummy and that's with only 1 dmg necrosis procs. I didn't use DRW or Hysteria in this test. So far this is the max dps testing i have found out of any spec and it is sustainable. Likely if blood strike glyph still works i will use it over Plague strike glyph on raids. Would like to see more tested #'s.

Edit: likely going to be going 51,2,18 for longer Rune weapon uptime.

Just to make sure that I'm clear on your rotation... You are saying that the basic sustainable part of the rotation that you maintain after the initial 2 Obliterates is:
PS, IT, HSx4, DC, OB, DC then repeat starting out with PS again?

You're not saying to start out the rotation again with 2 Obliterates right?

Rotation, Blood Presence, Start out with blood tap and then 2x obliterate then Empower rune weapon.

Use after you first engage then use 2nd rotation line for duration after for rest of fight.

Any rotation that relies on two cooldowns for it to work is definitely not a reliable rotation, especially taking into account the cooldown for ERW.