Blood DPS App. Stn. - Don't Stop Diseasin' (Feat. Runic Power Mastery).mp3 - Page 63

oll · 01/27/09, 2:51 AM

Originally Posted by mtrixis

Was a compiled list of what slows do affect the Blood Strike glyph been posted?

I'm also a bit confused now regarding the Blood Strike Glyph since the patch, especially because of the french translation that is "slowed", and the english tooltip is "snare". I think it would be great to add this list, if it's feasible, to the TTT or the DK faq.
I reread and search in this thread but didn't succeed in finding a strong post patch yes or no answer.
I browsed the WWS abilities (post 3.0.8) of my last guild's raid and it appears that bosses get the frostfirebolt debuff, but not the frostbolt one. Am I wrong ? And if not, does it mean right now that the blood strike glyph definitively benefits from a frostfire mage in the raid ?

Dariddler · 01/27/09, 9:16 AM

Been following this thread since it started, and now i've decided to add some data to it.

Regarding rotations and diseases, this is what i've found.

Running with a 51/0/21 spec it seems that OB->HS->HS->OB does produce more dps than the standard
IT->PS->HS->HS->OB->RD
OB->HSx4->RD

This is of course based on only my own data and tested on dummies, no EXTENSIVE testing in raids, but so far after 2x10man and 2x25 nax that the results is consistent with the dummy-testing.

However i do agree that this is most likely going to be fixed if it would turn out that ignoring diseases will produce more dps and i do consider myself a pretty experienced DK-player so it's not about missing rotations or lag (30-40ms ping)

Sadly these tests were done on dummies at 1hp which means necrosis wasnt factored in but the results were as follows:

Disease-less Rotation: ~2700dps
Normal Rotation: ~2200dps

These tests were all limited to 10 minutes each, using 3x Hysteria+DRW(yes, i wasted 1minute hysteria CD to allow for DRW to be avail in conjuction with Hysteria) and 2xGhoul with HoW being the only "extra" buff.

What i've found for my own self is that it's "easier" to dump your RP using the disease-less rotation considering you have abit more time between runes cooling down. and i'm not that exceptionally well-geared in my own opinion a link to my armory-profile will follow.

Glyphs: Obliterate, Blood Strike, Icy Touch

The World of Warcraft Armory

/Dari

Leaflock · 01/27/09, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dariddler

Been following this thread since it started, and now i've decided to add some data to it.

Regarding rotations and diseases, this is what i've found.

Running with a 51/0/21 spec it seems that OB->HS->HS->OB does produce more dps than the standard
IT->PS->HS->HS->OB->RD
OB->HSx4->RD

The rotation you list is not at all the "standard" for 51/0/20, and the way you've written it, it's diseaseless half the time anyway. Try the rotation listed in the last few pages, and see what results you get then. Diseaseless shouldn't be that much higher than a correctly-executed "proper" rotation.

Melchior · 01/27/09, 12:45 PM

I've got a couple questions for those more familiar with 51/0/20 (I've only ever run 51/13/7 for Blood):

I was messing with this build last night and simply could not find even a priority system that seemed to line up properly with rune refresh timers.

To start I would perform: OB -> IT -> PS -> HS -> HS

From there, I was basically prioritizing HS for any B or D runes when possible, using OB when diseases were nearing their end *or* I was looking at mid-duration diseases with F/U and another F/U preparing to refresh (so OB -> IT -> PS at that point).

The problem I keep running into no matter how I move around the strike order is that at some point I find myself need to OB, and the next four runes will come up in the order of B - B - F - U.

What would be the highest DPS option to use the next four runes since the diseases are down? My only choices at this point seem to be to either throw two disease-less HS or sit on the two B runes until F - U come up after them and refresh diseases before throwing HS, but neither way really seems right even if I have some RP to dump in the interim.

Am I tripping up somewhere with my priority on the runes?

Lazareth · 01/27/09, 1:23 PM

Well, you start with Oblit to convert F/U into D. You then pop IT and PS and you're left with two blood runes to HS with, by the time your two HS are done, you are now staring at two available death runes (if not, pop a DC), then use your two death runes for HS as well. By this time, your two blood runes should be refreshed for two more HS (pop a DC if not). You should now be staring at U/F runes and about 2-3 seconds left on your diseases. Hit an Oblit, empty your RP, and start over from PS/IT. Repeat. (I hope I didn't butcher that, as I'm at work with no WoW in front of me)

You should never oblit until your diseases are about to fall, and when executed properly (no misses or not a lot of time spent running around) it should be after six heart strikes.

Oblit to start to get two death runes.
PS > IT > HS x6 > Oblit > RP Dump > Repeat

Nen · 01/27/09, 1:34 PM

Don’t think rotation, think priority system, it’s very smooth once you get the hang of it, you can patch up any breaks/ranged/ae fights easier with the below:

1. OB is only used to wipe diseases (when they are about to wear),
2. When you use OB, your next gcds(or priority) should be IT and PS (when you are more comfortable with the spec you can fit DCs before the IT and PS)
3. When IT and PS is up, your priority is to spam HS, when you can’t spam HS, move to DC.

If you really want to follow a rotation:
Start:
OB IT PS HS HS DC

Rotation:
HS HS HS HS OB DC
IT PS HS HS HS HS DC
HS HS OB IT PS DC

Dariddler · 01/27/09, 3:42 PM

Alright, after trying the REAL "standard" rotation

i found out that the difference was smaller for sure, but i'm still doing more DPS just OB->HS->HS->OB which either means that i'm truly bad at the specific rotation or that running without diseases is still more beneficial for me.

The real question for me though is, is the added damage-bonus+dot damage worth more than spending the runes and time doing obliterates? i still produce roughly 3.4k average dps in raids (bosses only according to WWS)

Gaffadin · 01/27/09, 5:55 PM

Unless you are using a Boss target dummy your Heart Strikes will hit an additional dummy and artificially inflate your DPS results.

titanicus · 01/27/09, 8:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gaffadin

Unless you are using a Boss target dummy your Heart Strikes will hit an additional dummy and artificially inflate your DPS results.

Unless you use the dummy in Ebon Hold. Or are just blind : / You should notice the double numbers when HS if you are actually that close to another dummy.

Gaffadin · 01/27/09, 9:17 PM

You can be right on the far edge of one of the strings of three dummies and Heart Strike will still hit the adjacent target next to it (I tested it to make sure).

You must always, always test on a Boss dummy from now on to avoid any issues with Heart Strike. I found this out the hard way.

Azurai · 01/28/09, 1:18 AM

Originally Posted by oll

I'm also a bit confused now regarding the Blood Strike Glyph since the patch, especially because of the french translation that is "slowed", and the english tooltip is "snare". I think it would be great to add this list, if it's feasible, to the TTT or the DK faq.
I reread and search in this thread but didn't succeed in finding a strong post patch yes or no answer.
I browsed the WWS abilities (post 3.0.8) of my last guild's raid and it appears that bosses get the frostfirebolt debuff, but not the frostbolt one. Am I wrong ? And if not, does it mean right now that the blood strike glyph definitively benefits from a frostfire mage in the raid ?

I posted a few pages back a simple test and I'll repeat it again since people keep posting the TTW change and lots of conjecture:

Apply just PS to a target dummy and hit it with BS/HS. Then apply IT to the target dummy and hit it with BS/HS. You'll notice the damage stays the same because there is only 1 disease and the melee slow on FF doesn't trigger the glyph because it is NOT like TTW.

The BS glyph does now and has always benefited from every actual snare, there's no reason for people to keep posting about their miraculous discovery of the synergy between FFB and the glyph.

In order to fully understand in which way the glyph could benefit raid boss DPS (besides a boss being snarable) you'd have to understand the system in which WoW buffs and debuffs function. Suffice to say every effect from a debuff is going to have its own (possibly hidden) debuff which applies to a mob. Example: Infected Wounds - Spell - World of Warcraft (notice it applies two auras). Thus you can apply the melee slow from IW on a boss but the movement speed debuff will not go up. The only way you're going to see the BS glyph work is if one of these multi-debuffs is somehow triggering it from the main or dummy debuff and not from the snare. If someone wants to do some extensive testing on some lower tier boss mob with a druid/mage/whatever in order to rule out the possibility of exploiting IW/FFB or whatnot, have at it.

Lazareth · 01/28/09, 4:59 PM

So now that it's been a week or so since the 3.0.8 buff for Blood, has anybody compared any numbers to 51/13/7 to 51/0/20? In the "raid dps" thread here in the DK forums, nobody has posted (at least it's not in the OP) a 51/13/7 parse. I'd like to try it again but with the lack of Sigil of Awareness (Stupid heigan didn't drop it AGAIN) I don't think that it would give me its truly capable numbers.

Tharvos · 01/28/09, 5:37 PM

Originally Posted by Azurai

The BS glyph does now and has always benefited from every actual snare, there's no reason for people to keep posting about their miraculous discovery of the synergy between FFB and the glyph.

In order to fully understand in which way the glyph could benefit raid boss DPS (besides a boss being snarable) you'd have to understand the system in which WoW buffs and debuffs function. Suffice to say every effect from a debuff is going to have its own (possibly hidden) debuff which applies to a mob. Example: Infected Wounds - Spell - World of Warcraft (notice it applies two auras). Thus you can apply the melee slow from IW on a boss but the movement speed debuff will not go up. The only way you're going to see the BS glyph work is if one of these multi-debuffs is somehow triggering it from the main or dummy debuff and not from the snare. If someone wants to do some extensive testing on some lower tier boss mob with a druid/mage/whatever in order to rule out the possibility of exploiting IW/FFB or whatnot, have at it.

Wait, so the BS glyph does NOT work on raidbosses debuffed with IW / FFB ?
Who is right now? Some people say it work some say it don't... I am confused!

Montegomery · 01/28/09, 7:12 PM

Originally Posted by Tharvos

Wait, so the BS glyph does NOT work on raidbosses debuffed with IW / FFB ?
Who is right now? Some people say it work some say it don't... I am confused!

The issue is that all notable testing thus far has been done on the Heroic Training Dummy, which is affected by snares. There hasn't been any practical testing done on an actual raid boss. FFB and IW appear on those bosses but the question remains as to whether the glyph benefits.

Derivel · 01/29/09, 3:00 PM

Is there any chance of getting the front page of this thread updated in a manner such as Zurm's intro post for the unholy discussion?

I am switching to blood tonight to give the 10% AP buff to our raid, and I think by reading the last 10 pages or so I have gotten most of the useful information, but it would be super useful to compile a lot of stuff like current reputed best specs, rotations, glyphs, etc.

I know it sounds a bit selfish and "hey sum1 do this 4 me kthxbai", but if anyone is willing I would bet lots of people looking at trying blood would feel more confident. It would be especially useful as a lot of the earlier discussions in the thread are now outdated by patch changes. I'd offer to help if I had any expertise at all with blood