It's 2% for every 2 RP, the latest patch notes posted on MMOC includes inaccurate information on this Glyph (probably a typo as their talent calculator has the glyph represented correctly).

The new blood dk seems to be very strong @ ptr, perhaps a little too strong. Yesterday testing the ptr patchwerk dummy, our blood dk was unglyphed and did not ever play before a blood specc since leveling. And he did about 6k dps in a 6minutes fight, so he was even number 1, pretty close to mages who hat the hot streak bug.

So id love to test it today again in raid, with all new glyphs and so on. But i suppose, they buffed blood a little too strong. As a frost dk, i was 7th place, just behind the mages, rogues and hunters. Believe thats where dks are supposed to be.

Tested today blood 51/0/20 and was pretty much surprised, that i was able to do 3400 DPS with ghul, glyphs (without bs glyph, necrosis or any experience about blood speccs). Looks a little too high overall.

And yesterday, we were testing mirmion and i was always one of the last survivors. I had very much self healing, pretty n1.

Currently trying to work out which glyph set up to go for, BS/DS is a given and the jury's out on DRW vs Ghoul. Now I've not had the fortune to come across someone with Glyph of DRW in their recipie book on PTR and raiding times on live clash with PTR test hours, so if anyone has the fortune of Glyph of DRW could you possibly answer me the following please.

Does Glyph of DRW contribute more to DPS than Glyph of the Ghoul assuming that the Ghoul survives the entire fight?

How long does the Ghoul survive with and without Glyph of the Ghoul in a typical Ulduar boss encounter, and what's the DPS difference between the two?

Ghul dying is still the normal case. Yesterday on mimiron, my pet didnt surive 10 seconds in any phase, since there is a lot of aoe dmg. Its pretty much impossible to keep him alive in p2 and p1 would need a lot of attention, though i believe it could be possible.

So from that point of view, i would never glyph for ghoul, always for drw. Dont know yet if the glyph works at all on ptr.

Out of the seven trials I ran with and without Glyph of the Ghoul, the glyph accounted for 46.3 DPS (with only HoW buffed, this would be considerably larger raid buffed with Strength Scaling). Obviously these results are fairly inconclusive as its hard to generalize from a limited number of trials but it gives you an idea of how much the glyph is worth.

For reference my Ghoul's average DPS with the glyph was 337.40 and without the glyph the average DPS was 291.25. Fight duration on all trials was five minutes.

Even considering the added Ghoul survivability, I thoroughly believe that having a ~42% uptime on DRW would be better than Glyph of the Ghoul in the third major slot.

Assuming you pop DRW every time it's up without timing it with procs the glyph will be about 5.5% DPS gain this would be more if you time it with procs/cds. Also the 5.5% is assuming it just gets off CD as the fight ends. So unless the 40% of your Str and Stam the ghoul gets can be around 9-10% total DPS increase it will be very hard for glyph of ghoul to beat out glyph of DRW.

for 15% DC damage to even begin competing with the other 3 glyphs would require your DC to be around 30-35% of your total damage.

To show you I'll throw some numbers in.
assuming HS is about 35% of your damage the glyph of BS provides 7% DPS gain.
assuming DS is about 20% of your damage the glyph of DS provides 5% DPS gain
glyph of DRW provides a minimum of 5.5% DPS gain but could be anywhere up to 8-10%

assuming DC is about 15% of your damage the glyph of DC provides 2.25% DPS gain.

This numbers are all rough estimates but just the sheer overwhelming result for these rough estimates should show you why glyph of DC will never be an option as blood.

how do you figure the glyph to be about a 5.5% dps gain? That number seems a bit arbitrary

And then you have to ask, 5.5% of what? with a 1.5 min CD and the uptime gains it's gotten (especially if you spec into RPM) you're looking at the DRW being up quite a bit.

You need to look at more than just the % increase of a glyph

Thats the math i have some trouble with.

But Glyph of the Ghoul looks overall pretty uninteresting. Maybe that u can achieve a comparable dmg on patchwerk dummies, but DRW has much more utility. Wenn u are fighting aoe, than your weapon also does so. On Darnassus PTR Dummy, i tried not to hit the other dummies, my DW did (eg heartstrike). So there is a lot more potential than just giving a pet a little more damage, which might end up dying very often and very fast.

Overall Glyph of DRW is going to up your drw uptime by at least a third, so u can assume 30% more contribution of DRW. I am pretty sure, that overall even on dummies, this can outrule the ghul, even much more in raids, especially on aoe fights or right use. Or simply for use of full hero.

As far as new talent distributions go, I'm having trouble with my UH sub-spec. Having a filler first tier isn't helping the situation but I have found that we can get away with just one point in Epidemic for an 18 second disease duration. So five mandatory points in the first tier, one in Epidemic and three in Ravenous Dead leaves nine points to be spread through Morbidity, Necrosis, Blood Caked Blade and Master of Ghould (assuming 51/2/18).

Necrosis has been 6-7% of my damage consistently, with BCB clocking in around 2-3% overall. So I'm thinking that I want to keep my Necrosis maxed. I have a feeling that the 15% increased Death Coil damage will be comparable to BCB now that the ICD has been reverted.

What do you guys think?

I have been following this thread for while, but decided to join as a have a few questions that I have not seen discussed here. Now I have been playing Blood since levelling and love it, so I happy to see the attention its now getting in 3.1 I am a little concerned that its too good and will get nerfed and right now Blizzard does seem to be very heavy handed with many nerfs and going way over the top. I think a big issue is trying to balance PvP with PvE, which are two different games in many ways, its too bad they can't make more use of the mechanic that they did with Locks and Curse of Doom, where it can only be used in PvE. As far as the previous post, I've been trying to work out the same thing, because I see BCB as a fair portion of my DPS, but not enough to drop the 2 points from Runic Mastery for, because the time on DRW is worth more, but the question is between the two UH talents, both of which are nice, and a chuck of my DPS, whichever I drop I'll be sad.


My question related to Hysteria, I been arguing the points with my guild as to who it is best cast on right now, in live, can anyone provide numbers or a link to the numbers as I would be curious to see them. I have not seen any here or on Blizzard forums, only the general information thats says Warrior becaus they are highest physical DPS, how ever that statement assumes DKs are using diseases, what if we don't, as most blood build don't, how does that change things? Will these numbers change in 3.1, I imagine with the changes to DRW, and also because we will use diseases, they will and the warrior will be the best choice.

Also how much does latency affect Blood DPS? I run from 700ms up to 1200ms, 550ms on a good night (this mostly means my partner is having a night off) and have been told my DPS (which is usually top 5, if not higher) is too low. On Patchwork I sit about the 4800 DPS mark, and I have topped this fight on 2 occasions, I am also aware that this is a bit lower than I have seen in some reports, is this a mix of latency and gear or is it me? Most of my gear is best in slot, and I have plenty to switch in and out, I don't have Greatness as I don't have 10+k gold to spare and Kel'Thuzzad love our casters more than melee and only dropped BoH this week (the Warrior got it).

I've been using Rawr to figure out stat weights and make gear choice decisions and for the most part its pretty good. But I've come to a point where I effectively have two sets of gear (not two whole sets, mainly 3 items I can trade out). Statwise theyre pretty similar,

Set 1 has 11.89% armor pen and I have to eat hit food to reach cap

Set 2 has 2% armor pen and I'm hit capped with gear. Allowing me to enchant crusher and use str food.

Interestingly enough, rawr's modeling puts them about even dps wise and dummy tests have shown the same with the second set coming out on top thanks to the +3% crit meta. But I'm not sure how accurate Rawr is on this, and its a frickin' dummy. We all hate that stuff.

I guess what I'm wondering is if there's any theorycraft out there that supports latent hit on gear over buffing for it (I'm clueless about item budgets and whatnot) and how much ArP will affect things in an actual raid. Thanks!

Ya, i forgot to account for the uptime DRW already has.

If you assume DRW is a true 50% dps increase while it is up then that means that you get 101 seconds of damage(90 + 22 * 0.5) with no RPM or 104 seconds of damage(90 + 28 * 0.5)with RPM in a normal 90 second window. The glyph will add another 5 seconds(10 * 0.5) which puts you at 106 seconds of damage or 109 seconds of damage. These are relative dps increases of 4.95% and 4.8% respectively. Yes these numbers will be off because these are for a fight of infinite length and also a fight where you do not time cds/procs with it. However since both of these factors will increase it's dps these values are a lower bound. So if another choice Isn't even able to match the DRW in a situation where you don't try to get the most benefit of it the other choice certainly won't match up when you do.

As your raid kills faster, your dps will increase because of higher uptime of DRW and Bloodlust and other buffs. If you're getting top 1-2 in dps then it means that everyone else in your raid isn't putting up numbers as strong as they should be. But yeah, just cast Hysteria on yourself with DRW macro or something.

Considering the changes we have coming our way, could anyone on the American PTR forums consider a thread asking if the changes to Blood Dps will be reflected in our T7 set bonuses?
I know everyone likes to discount them, but frankly, I don't think an entire talent tree should be able to look at their tier set and think "well, nothing there benefits me".
Obliterate and Scourge Strike aren't a part of any rotation we could come up with, I'd like to see if theres any plans to include DS in the 2t7 and 4t7.
If someone could ask this question, it'd be much appreciated, sadly I'm not on the PTR and we don't get blue feeback on the European forums.
Incidentally, GC has said that we can expect lots more changes to DPS Dk's, no shock there, but here's hoping that whatever they do to nerf or buff, that they at least keep things fun. I don't know about anyone else, but playing as diseaseless blood spec bored the -crap- out of me in pve. I topped damage, but slapping 3 buttons over and over again isn't why I rolled a Deathknight.

Including DS which is simply a death rune generator on any set bonus isn't the way to go.

We are seeing love on T8 with the 4pc bonus affecting our primary damage strike, which is Heart Strike.

In my tests without any glyphs (on PTR glyphs currently get removed every time you zone and EU PTRs don't have glyph vendors) I've been doing ~3k DPS personal while my DRW has done ~750 DPS while up (not total).
DRW seems to be doing ~50% of the damage you'd do without having talent points spent. (It's always been this way, for some reason it simply had a faster attack speed so the increased white damage usually made up for the very low non-talented HS it did)

However there seems to be a bug with DRW, when AOEing with BB my DRW did twice the damage I did (~8k DPS against ~6 targets of which half didn't have diseases up), DRW BB seems to hit every mob a few times.

Meleedamage from the DRW is indeed as high as my own melee auto hitdamage, but the strike damage (and so on) is just lower than 50%.

I thought, the DRW would copy the attacks of the dk, but it doesnt seem always to work that way(must be a bug, sometimes it simply doesnt use all the special attacks). But in every case, DRW glyph is better than the Glyph of the ghoul. My ghouls dummy dps is pretty low (about 220 unglyphed).

Yes, there is a pic floating around on deathknight.info of Zooks throwing down DRW while Aoe'n and hit bloodboil. She hit everything once, the DRW actually hit everything a few times, resulting in an instantaneous 16k dps. This was with about 6-8 mobs there. All I can say is that blizz has reports of this bug, but has not removed it yet. Maybe next push, til then, enjoy your DRW burning everything down!

That's a pretty big assumption. As of the latest PTR build DS has always been less than 10% (around 6-8% to be exact) of my overall damage with DC being upwards of 16-18% of my overall damage. This is on the heroic dummy with no glyphs or external buffs/debuffs using 4 min tests. I would wager the DC glyph would be a greater DPS increase than the DS glyph.

I keep seeing talk about using a glyph slot for the Blood Strike glyph. I've yet to see any proof of it actually WORKING on bosses, or any talk of it being changed TO work on bosses. Anyone have any concrete evidence of either?

The first post in this thread links two tested cases of [Glyph of Blood Strike] and snares working on raid bosses, even if the mob is immune to movement impair.