Blood DPS App. Stn. - Don't Stop Diseasin' (Feat. Runic Power Mastery).mp3 - Page 67

Bloody_sorcerer · 02/04/09, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Hemonology

Has anyones' spreadsheet tried to correctly model stacking ar.pen with the 51/13/7 build?I have a theory that the build runs much as an raiding Arms Warrior spec pre 3.0.So in saying that before the patch it was quite beneficial for an Arms to stack ar.pen,so utilizing the "Grim Toll" trinket plus socketing the "Fractured Scarlet Ruby",wouldn't that almost achieve in some cases 53% attack effectiveness?

Atleast considering the fact that Blood dps is based on the armor content of said boss?Alright so at the current time I have nine sockets in which I can switch over 9*16= 145(rating) passive socketed to gear.Now add in your food buffs of 40 from food,and 45 from pot that shoots you up to 230 at which your sitting at 13.60% roughly pssive ar.pen,now depending on if you posess the trinket,which grants 612 on proc ar.pen that now sits you at 842 ar.pen(rating).Or 52.623 % increased strike effectiveness.

From what I can tell though the tooltip on ar.pen is misleading,with diminshing returns I believe the percentage instead of being 16 rating per 1% of ar.pen,in all reality its around 19 per 1% of rating.So maybe someone with a little more mathematical expertise could guide me along with this.

*EDIT*:for bone-headedness.

Rawr 2.1.9 is now correctly modeling armor penetration (or, at least, better than it used to), and for no gear set I've evaluated in blood spec does armor penetration come out better than strength, though it is definitely a strong stat for blood. It's not a stat worth socketing, food buffing, or elixiring, but it's leaps and bounds better than the other "throwaway" stat blizzard has itemized naxx with, haste.

Orlgin · 02/04/09, 1:19 PM

Haste is great for Duel-Wielding Death Knights who use spells as their primary source of damage. You don't benefit from haste as much because you use a two-handed weapon and use weapon strikes that don't get their GCD reduced by haste. For example, a 0/20/51 values haste very highly because with enough haste, they can use 7 GCDs in 10 seconds in Blood Presence. The pets (ghoul and gargoyle) both benefit from the haste as well. The set was designed with stats that would benefit all builds. The haste benefits duel-wield but the set bonuses favor two-handed. Balanced.

When examining the stat values for any build, it is important to notice these things. The values for even a 51/13/7 are different from a 51/0/20. Some things you can take for granted. Strength, for example, is the best stat for all builds after hit capping for spells. Once you know your specific values, you can then judge your equipment accordingly.

cyberthug · 02/04/09, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by Orlgin

Haste is great for Duel-Wielding Death Knights who use spells as their primary source of damage. You don't benefit from haste as much because you use a two-handed weapon and use weapon strikes that don't get their GCD reduced by haste. For example, a 0/20/51 values haste very highly because with enough haste, they can use 7 GCDs in 10 seconds in Blood Presence. The pets (ghoul and gargoyle) both benefit from the haste as well. The set was designed with stats that would benefit all builds. The haste benefits duel-wield but the set bonuses favor two-handed. Balanced.

When examining the stat values for any build, it is important to notice these things. The values for even a 51/13/7 are different from a 51/0/20. Some things you can take for granted. Strength, for example, is the best stat for all builds after hit capping for spells. Once you know your specific values, you can then judge your equipment accordingly.

if you have best in slot and your hit capped and stacked strength as your main stat, i think the question that is floating around right now at least until blizzard gets things straight on all classes is what spec is superior 51/13/7 or 51/0/20.

And your saying the values for each spec is different, what is it you see that is different between those two that maybe one makes it better than the other.

Btw thanks for the information it helps, i'm just trying to figure out blod specs and which one will be or become superior.

Hemonology · 02/04/09, 3:55 PM

Originally Posted by cyberthug

if you have best in slot and your hit capped and stacked strength as your main stat, i think the question that is floating around right now at least until blizzard gets things straight on all classes is what spec is superior 51/13/7 or 51/0/20.

And your saying the values for each spec is different, what is it you see that is different between those two that maybe one makes it better than the other.

Btw thanks for the information it helps, i'm just trying to figure out blod specs and which one will be or become superior.

That exact statement is what gets me,from my napkin math(which has actually turned out to be two pages of statistics)The way that the unholy tree augments the base str. more-so than the already str and expertise heavy blood tree,stacking str. is the logical assumption,atleast in the 51/0/20 build.

Now,because of the way the 51/13/7 build works by mechanics alone,I'm actually parsing the ar.pen build running higher numbers,atleast in regards to a say four minute fight,tank and spank such as patchwerk.Because the amount of armor the boss has mitigates the damage done by the strikes of the 51/1x/0x build,the only logical assumption atleast initially is to stack ar.pen.

shed · 02/04/09, 7:02 PM

While its confirmed that the mage FFB debuff will allow the blood strike glyph to work on bosses, are there any other debuffs that cause this that will be up on a boss at all times? I'm not talking about people putting up Chains of Ice or other debuffs that don't actually fit in a normal rotation. After the last patch a lot of mages are switching to arcane so it will be hard to get use of this BS glyph if FFB is the only thing.

Jmack · 02/05/09, 1:22 AM

Hey guys, heres a WWS parse of my naxx25 tonight. I was 51/0/20 doing a no disease rotation 2x OB 2x HS. Pretty much all over all over the top of the DPS meters and I pulled 6800 DPS on patchwerk including AotD. (the 7400DPS warlock had a doomguard and a Tricks of the Trade rotation going on him lol) Anyways this was my first night as Diseaseless blood and I was fairly impressed. Anyone else pulling these kinds of numbers? Glyphs were Obliterate Blood Strike and Ghoul.

Wow Web Stats

WoWScrnShot_020409_211913.jpg picture by xtremerz - Photobucket

clairecakes · 02/05/09, 5:27 AM

Originally Posted by shed

While its confirmed that the mage FFB debuff will allow the blood strike glyph to work on bosses, are there any other debuffs that cause this that will be up on a boss at all times? I'm not talking about people putting up Chains of Ice or other debuffs that don't actually fit in a normal rotation. After the last patch a lot of mages are switching to arcane so it will be hard to get use of this BS glyph if FFB is the only thing.

A dual wield DK usually has a few points in desecration and that counts as a snare. Not the same kind of uptime, but fairly decent.

I'm in the same boat. Bout to put my Mage CL hat on and make one of them go back to FFB. Maybe I'll make a fib about Torment of the Weak only working with REAL snares....I hope they don't read this.

yoomy · 02/05/09, 6:20 AM

Originally Posted by Jmack

Hey guys, heres a WWS parse of my naxx25 tonight. I was 51/0/20 doing a no disease rotation 2x OB 2x HS. Pretty much all over all over the top of the DPS meters and I pulled 6800 DPS on patchwerk including AotD. (the 7400DPS warlock had a doomguard and a Tricks of the Trade rotation going on him lol) Anyways this was my first night as Diseaseless blood and I was fairly impressed. Anyone else pulling these kinds of numbers? Glyphs were Obliterate Blood Strike and Ghoul.

Wow Web Stats

WoWScrnShot_020409_211913.jpg picture by xtremerz - Photobucket

Impressive!

What I dont get is that your armory shows 4257 AP. I went through every single item you have and compared it to mine and i found a difference of 280 AP between us. Mainly because of Bandits Insignia and Jewelcrafting. But somehow I only got 3888 AP, i just dont see where the missing 100AP come from.

Crytin · 02/05/09, 12:49 PM

Hey there, first time poster. This is me! The World of Warcraft Armory

I've been beating on the Highlord Nemesis Target dummy for a while, and it seems like OBx2 HS x2 DC spam gives me ~200 DPS more than OB x2 HSx2 DC spam HS x6. Is it because HSx6 scales better with buffs? I'm getting just shy of 2.5k completely unbuffed with the OBx2 HSx2, and barely scratching 2.3k with the HSx6 spam.

It could also be that I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what it could be.

Thanks.

Derivel · 02/05/09, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Crytin

It could also be that I'm doing something wrong, but I'm not sure what it could be.

Thanks.

What are you doing with Sudden Doom procs? If you just spam HSx6 and ignore your Sudden Doom procs you are losing out on potential DPS.

Hemonology · 02/05/09, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jmack

Hey guys, heres a WWS parse of my naxx25 tonight. I was 51/0/20 doing a no disease rotation 2x OB 2x HS. Pretty much all over all over the top of the DPS meters and I pulled 6800 DPS on patchwerk including AotD. (the 7400DPS warlock had a doomguard and a Tricks of the Trade rotation going on him lol) Anyways this was my first night as Diseaseless blood and I was fairly impressed. Anyone else pulling these kinds of numbers? Glyphs were Obliterate Blood Strike and Ghoul.

Wow Web Stats

WoWScrnShot_020409_211913.jpg picture by xtremerz - Photobucket

Thats not just impressive,thats downight fuckin excellent.What was your exact rotation for the fight?I would very much so like to mickin your rotation to try to pull the same results.

Crytin · 02/05/09, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Derivel

What are you doing with Sudden Doom procs? If you just spam HSx6 and ignore your Sudden Doom procs you are losing out on potential DPS.

Nah, I'm making sure to use Sudden Doom procs as soon as they come up.

Shadowseve · 02/05/09, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Jmack

Hey guys, heres a WWS parse of my naxx25 tonight. I was 51/0/20 doing a no disease rotation 2x OB 2x HS. Pretty much all over all over the top of the DPS meters and I pulled 6800 DPS on patchwerk including AotD. (the 7400DPS warlock had a doomguard and a Tricks of the Trade rotation going on him lol) Anyways this was my first night as Diseaseless blood and I was fairly impressed. Anyone else pulling these kinds of numbers? Glyphs were Obliterate Blood Strike and Ghoul.

Wow Web Stats

WoWScrnShot_020409_211913.jpg picture by xtremerz - Photobucket

That is really, really impressive. I would also like to see an exact rotation on that. My only concern is if I'm reading the charts correctly is the fight only lasted 2:35 seconds. From my understanding is that blood can spike like crazy under optimal circumstances during short fights, but then falls to being mediocre during longer fights. Maybe this is a good start to blood becoming more viable in raid situations. Also Not sure if this would be considered cross posting or not, but you might want to put this in the top dps thread that we have. I think it would be very worth while to pick it a part to see just how good this can get and if it can be replicated.

shed · 02/05/09, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Shadowseve

That is really, really impressive. I would also like to see an exact rotation on that. My only concern is if I'm reading the charts correctly is the fight only lasted 2:35 seconds. From my understanding is that blood can spike like crazy under optimal circumstances during short fights, but then falls to being mediocre during longer fights. Maybe this is a good start to blood becoming more viable in raid situations. Also Not sure if this would be considered cross posting or not, but you might want to put this in the top dps thread that we have. I think it would be very worth while to pick it a part to see just how good this can get and if it can be replicated.

From what I can tell from the WWS, he's just doing OB, OB, HS, HS and doesn't use death runes to use extra HS's so the rotation stays the same.

I agree that DRW or Garg does benefit shorter fights, but thats just the way it is. If the fight was a bit longer he would of gotten a second DRW too, so does it really apply?

Asphyxialol · 02/05/09, 4:29 PM

Originally Posted by yoomy

Impressive!

What I dont get is that your armory shows 4257 AP. I went through every single item you have and compared it to mine and i found a difference of 280 AP between us. Mainly because of Bandits Insignia and Jewelcrafting. But somehow I only got 3888 AP, i just dont see where the missing 100AP come from.

He has 2x more sockets (blacksmith) for 32 more base str, and 3x JC gems to give 33 more base str.

110 AP more than you not taking into account any modifiers (like your 64 ap to shoulder over his 40 ap). Judging by the already large gap in your AP I am assuming you aren't full 213 either, so he has some more armor value and thus a tid bit more from Bladed Armor.