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Old 12/10/08, 1:25 PM   #1
Randyll
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Paladin
 
Vashj (EU)
Upcoming Death Knight changes

Ghostcrawler announced a ton of upcoming death knight changes in this post.

Although most of these changes were mostly bug fixes or improvements, there are a few some might call 'nerfs', although you'd have to be cautious as to what label as such since they made a significant overhaul to DK tanking. The amounts Bone Shield and Icebound Fortitude reduced incoming damage were reduced but the mitigation from Frost Presence was increased in return.

As such, a lot of these changes alter the current Death Knight playstyle hence I felt that due to the sheer number of them a thread for it was appropriate.

From official PTR patch notes:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* All multi-rune abilities generate 15 runic power.
* Anti-Magic Shell: The cooldown has been lowered to 45 sec from 60 sec.
* Anti-Magic Zone: This ability’s duration has been cut to 10 seconds.
* Blood Aura now grants 2/4% instead of 1/2% healing.
* Blood Presence now grants 2/4% instead of 1/2% healing.
* Bloody Strikes will receive extra bonus damage from Pestilence.
* Bone Shield: The mitigation has been reduced from 40% to 20%.
* Corpse Explosion: Damage increased substantially, added 5 sec. cooldown, and changed cost to 40 runic power.
* Dark Command: Range increased to 30 yards.
* Death Pact now grants 40% instead of 20% healing.
* Frost Presence: The bonus armor has been increased from 60 to 80% and magic damage reduction increased from 5 to 15%.
* Heart Strike no longer has a haste debuff but will now be able to strike two targets.
* Horn of Winter now has no cost and grants 10 runic power in addition to its stat buff, but has a 20 second cooldown.
* Howling Blast: Cooldown removed.
* Icebound Fortitude now reduces damage by 20% instead of 50%. The amount of damage reduced increases with bonus Defense (to about 35% for 540 Defense, but can go higher).
* Killing Machine: Instead of a chance to be triggered on critical strike, this talent now has a chance to be triggered on each swing based on the swing time of the weapon (slow weapons more likely, fast weapons less likely).
* Mark of Blood: The total amount of healing this can grant is now capped based on a percentage of standard creature health at the target’s level.
* Night of the Dead now grants 40/70% passive area spell avoidance to your pet in addition to its current effects.
* Outbreak will no longer receive bonus damage from pestilence. The bonus from Plague Strike and Blood Boil has been increased slightly.
* Pestilence no longer has a 10 seconds cooldown.
* Raise Dead has now been split into two spells:
o Raise Dead now raises a ghoul or pet ghoul (if talented). Requires corpse dust if no humanoid corpse is nearby.
o Raise Ally now raises a fallen party member as a ghoul and has no reagent. Available at level 72. This should now last for 4 minutes.
* Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle (two-handed only) now grants 25 Defense and 2% Stamina.
* Rune Strike: Damage decreased from 200% to 150% but threat increased to 150% from 100%.
* Shadow of Death: The duration has been changed from 45 seconds to 25 secondsseconds and now has a 15 minute cooldown.
* Summon Gargoyle: Damage dealt by the Gargoyle reduced by approximately 20% and maximum duration cut to 30 seconds.
* Unholy Blight had had its cost reduced from 60 to 40 runic power.
* Wandering Plague will now properly reset after being castand now considers the resilience of the target in determining its chance to be triggered.
* Vampiric Blood (DK) changed from 20% health / 50% healing to 15 % health / 35% healing.
* Will of the Necropolis will now reduce the damage of any attack that takes the DK below 35% health by 5 /10/15% instead of boosting armor when wounded. It no longer affects the cooldown of Anti-Magic Shell and retains the current damage reduction bonus.
* Glyph of Death and Decay has been changed to grant 20% additional damage instead of its current effect.

Last edited by Randyll : 01/16/09 at 6:21 AM.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:34 PM   #2
Eej
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Eej
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I'm so happy they finally got around to nerfing Bone Shield and IBF, since both were ridiculously overpowered in PvP. Same with Shadow of Death.

Vampiric Last Stand looks like it might be worthwhile now while Heart Strike's new Cleave function seems like it could become a little over the top. Consider the possibility of having two cloth classes next to each other getting hit for 5k crits every GCD from Heart Strike. Oh well.

Pestilence having no cooldown is extremely useful for every spec, not just Blood. It basically improves base DK AE capability. I'm sure the Unholy DKs will appreciate getting some pet survivability talents, although I wonder if 70% avoidance will apply to the Gargoyle as well.

Unholy Blight is now better than Death Coil. Dancing Rune Weapon lasts for a whole 2 seconds longer and Hungering Cold is going to be even more hilarious in PvP.

Watching every DK toot their own horn (literally) when they're out of range of the boss and their runes are on cooldown is going to be amusing.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:38 PM   #3
Melchior
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Orc Death Knight
 
Skywall
Glad to see them buff Blood Aura. 4% should make worthwhile as a passive healing buff now.

Heart Strike just got crazy buffed for AoE purposes. Goodness. Blood in general did I guess with the Pestilence change as well, but 4xHS with 2 targets? Ouch.

Not sure why AMS got buffed, to be honest. Now it's a 10 second duration 1m cooldown glyphed, unless the AMS glyph was one of the ones that got nerfed/removed in the glyph changes. That's probably too powerful in PvP.

I do wish they would have buffed Unholy Presence slightly, though. It still seems like they want Blood to be DPSing in Unholy presence but the haste bonus needs to be buffed by about 10% for that to be worth considering.


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Old 12/10/08, 1:43 PM   #4
AriochIV
Glass Joe
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Tichondrius
Wow... totally changing the mechanic of a central ability like Heart Strike is really going to mess people up. (Looks for a place to put Blood Strike on action bars...) I also grimace to wonder what they've done to my glyphs.

That said, the buffs for Blood look great. Though it seems like the buffs are more to AoE DPS than tanking, really.

Last edited by AriochIV : 12/10/08 at 2:11 PM.

Rozenn - Shuri - Fingall - Orinoco - Amirik <-- Death Knight

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Old 12/10/08, 1:47 PM   #5
Claidic
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Lothar
Seems like the decrease in the effectiveness of Bone Shield and the increase in the mitigation of all specs will bring frost back into line with unholy for tanking. I'm not convinced that blood is viable yet. The new implementation of Will of the Necropolis is better than the old one, but an ability that only functions when you go below 35% health isn't really ideal for a tank. Overall, though, looks like a great set of changes and I don't find myself unhappy about any of them. I'd like Rune Strike to stay at 200%, but I guess we can't have everything.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:52 PM   #6
Cambriel
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Death Knight
 
Durotan
From a Blood DPS perspective, I'm seeing nothing but positive changes. I'm sure our DK tanks are going to be a little bummed about the cooldown nerfs, and certainly not having IBF as an amazing emergency tool outside of tank gear is going to sting, but the Heart Strike change is impressive as hell and the buff to other Blood talents might actually give some better options to fill out that tree. Blood Aura at 4% makes it much more attractive than the paltry dps from Blood Worms, and the Vampiric Blood change might actually make taking the ability worthwhile.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:54 PM   #7
 Zurm
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Blood Elf Paladin
 
Arthas
I'm sad to not see any gargoyle changes. With a pathetic 13k hp, they die super easily on any AOE fight...making it a situational ability even though it does such massive damage.

The change to Corpse Explosion is interesting, perhaps it might be worth picking up for a raider...

Back, semi-casual, and proud of it.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:54 PM   #8
jaxdahl
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Mal'Ganis
Looks like unholy tank builds will have a total of 20% magic damage reduction, taking into account the buff to frost presence (15%), along with the 5% from Magic Suppression -- correct me if you think I'm wrong. I'm going to really love the no cooldown on pestilence if it makes it into live - it seemed quite effective in beta when it behaved that way.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:56 PM   #9
methods
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Human Death Knight
 
Frostmane
Whats the point of BB now? PvP kiting?
Runestrike should still be very good for PvP even at the cost of 50% extra damage.
Corpse explosion should be fun again and can now be used in a rotation with raise dead cooldowns (NOTD).

The cooldown reduction to AMS may be interesting for PvP. Now my Ony farming should be even more of a cake walk. With the changes to frost presence I should be able to solo most of MC now too.


The most important thing in this list for us 'Unholy's is the avoidance for pets.
Also, the addition of new Sigils was so needed that all I can say is, if I see more haste, I may write a letter.

Last edited by methods : 12/10/08 at 2:03 PM.

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Old 12/10/08, 1:59 PM   #10
Lord BEEF
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Claidic View Post
The new implementation of Will of the Necropolis is better than the old one, but an ability that only functions when you go below 35% health isn't really ideal for a tank.
The way it's worded (which may not be how it actually works) makes it sound as though it reduces the damage of an attack that would bring you below 35%, down by 15%.

So if you had 30,000 health, and an attack would hurt you for 20,000 it does 17,000 instead since it would have brought you below 35%

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Old 12/10/08, 2:11 PM   #11
Claidic
Glass Joe
 
Human Death Knight
 
Lothar
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
The way it's worded (which may not be how it actually works) makes it sound as though it reduces the damage of an attack that would bring you below 35%, down by 15%.

So if you had 30,000 health, and an attack would hurt you for 20,000 it does 17,000 instead since it would have brought you below 35%
That was my understanding of it as well. It's certainly an improvement but I am not sure if such a situational ability is good enough to be the premier tanking talent of the blood tree. It seems like it would be great for mitigating huge hits, but not much else.

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Old 12/10/08, 2:14 PM   #12
tedv
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Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Lord BEEF View Post
The way it's worded (which may not be how it actually works) makes it sound as though it reduces the damage of an attack that would bring you below 35%, down by 15%.

So if you had 30,000 health, and an attack would hurt you for 20,000 it does 17,000 instead since it would have brought you below 35%
Which ironically keeps you above 35% health, so the next attack would have damage prevention too. At any rate, it seems like a very good tanking talent now. And most importantly, it's a talent that smooths out spike damage into something more manageable, rather than other talents like Bone Shield which provide great mitigation at some times and no mitigation at others. (Not that bone shield is bad, but that more cooldowns isn't exactly what a Death Knight needs to tank well.)

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Old 12/10/08, 2:20 PM   #13
Leperchaun
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Death Knight
 
Deathwing
I'm interested to see how they rework the glyphs, especially [Glyph of Horn of Winter]

Probably just going to be a reduced cooldown now though.

Blood looks a lot more attractive, I might give it a shot on the PTR to see how it plays out.

I like night of the living dead's change, but I do wish it would apply to gargoyle as well.

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Old 12/10/08, 2:21 PM   #14
blair
Glass Joe
 
Orc Mage
 
Skullcrusher
The addition of new sigils brings a welcome sigh of relief. Having only three choices is lackluster, especially when one of them is terrible for our 2h itemization. I feel the nerfs to bone shield and IBF were necessary, though I will hold off on saying it was a fair swap until the evidence presents itself. Reducing UB's cost makes for more DC's and easier upkeep on the Gargoyle, so Unholy managed to get a nice buff there. All in all I feel most changes were good for us as a class, especially Pestilence having its cooldown removed (thank god).

Blood tanking got seriously buffed, with HS now being a cleave, Bloody Strikes getting the Pestilence bonus, and getting our own version of Last Stand.

I am very interested in the new sigils and the changes to the glyphs as well. I can't wait to see them.

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Old 12/10/08, 2:21 PM   #15
Bibdy
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Orc Warlock
 
Bonechewer
I would prefer to see Blood Boil become a more prominent Blood AOE tanking ability rather than Heart Strike become a Cleave. Right now its got a kind of weird niche as an ability you use when you're in your second set of runes while AOEing.

Open up with DnD, PS, IT and Pestilence and you're out of Runes. The only time you get to Blood Boil is if you blow Blood Tap or wait on the second set.

There's always free cheese in the mouse traps, but the mice there ain't happy.

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